Clarification and Explanation

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I want to get banned. Please don't ask me why. But can someone throw some light on how to get this done?? Should I request the mods?

@mods....please don't ban me as I am just kidding:eek:hyeah:
Cause if I want I can simply keep myself away, why ask for a ban?:)

At work you don't ask your boss to sack you, you just resign:D
And then has anyone heard this one..."Boss, as I am being sacked, please delete all my files and throw away all my work from your office"???

And it happened!! Goodness gracious!!:rolleyes:
 
hey sujit, i am not sure about forums (and to clarify here, i've never advised any forums, so the relevance of my experience is probably indirect/oblique), but sites using user generated content such as social networking sites, blog sites, video upload sites and so on have this as a standard policy and this logic would to an extent extend to forums. But yes forums are a more complex animal and perhaps a more nuanced approach would be required, which is why I mentioned that it would be a policy decision.

I am a member of multiple forums for the past decade. I have not come across a single forum that allows/considers deletion of posts on exit. (Honestly I have never seen anyone asking for it either!)

Have you?
 
Folks, we are not talking about highly secretive material and such here. We are talking about technical and non-technical information about audio and video.

Irrespective of the contents, we will evolve a way by which the material, once posted, cannot be removed.

Cheers
 
@venkat - In the context of my suggested language above, to achieve that objective you'd just need to drop in the words "perpetual, irrevocable" before the phrase "royalty-free" and it would all be good. I can imagine people having problems with that though, but hey we're a collaborative forum and I am sure we can reach some sort of consensus?
 
reju said:
I want to get banned. Please don't ask me why. But can someone throw some light on how to get this done?? Should I request the mods?

@mods....please don't ban me as I am just kidding
Cause if I want I can simply keep myself away, why ask for a ban?:)

At work you don't ask your boss to sack you, you just resign
And then has anyone heard this one..."Boss, as I am being sacked, please delete all my files and throw away all my work from your office"???

And it happened!! Goodness gracious!!

I don't know how the word 'banned' came to be so prevalent in our discussions here. Shall we say a member's access to the website and to make posts have been curtailed or restricted?

Cheers
 
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hey arun, i don't think this much thought went into drafting that clause. Anil spends money out of his own pocket to keep this forum running and advertising (and donations) only covers a small part of the operating costs. He can genuinely claim to be doing us a favour, but he won't :)

I think this was just a quickfix solution to avoid a cranky-like situation of someone leaving and deleting all their posts, and the implications were not fully thought out. I am certain that on reading these posts the terms of use will be amended suitably.

Hi Psychotropic,

Thanks for putting this in perspective, as usual :)

In hindsight, I realize that I got carried away in my previous post, and what I wrote probably came across more harshly than I intended it to be. Just to make my stand clear, I really cherish being a member of this forum, and am deeply indebted to, and greatly respect several forum members, past and present, including the moderators who have the toughest job of all.

With this, I also place a big dose of trust on the forum that it will do the right thing. As you mentioned. I'm quite sure that the owners are running this site primarily with the motive of sharing and promoting interest in high fidelity media. I'm sure that whatever suggestions you are proposing will be adequate.

Again, I apologize if I unintentionally upset anyone with my earlier post. I think I should have tempered my words. My post was a bit of a knee jerk reaction based on years of participation in other forums, a few of which have tried to do such stuff.
 
Folks, we are not talking about highly secretive material and such here. We are talking about technical and non-technical information about audio and video.

Irrespective of the contents, we will evolve a way by which the material, once posted, cannot be removed.

Cheers

Venkat, firstly a big thanks for doing a absolutely great job in this really difficult and thankless role.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the copyright issue here, but I want to clarify that many posts are not just about sharing facts and figures but also about sharing insights and giving detailed explanations based on years of study and research. Many people nowadays make money out of this by creating personal blogs and making a name for themselves and/or just from Google ad traffic in their blog. Many other people, on the other hand, do this purely altruistically in this forum as they feel a sense of community in this forum.

If the copyright restriction means that they throw away their knowledge to another entity when they can't even retain the copyright of their own writings, this forum will eventually end up being a source of only information - namely facts, figures, and price quotations, not knowledge and wisdom.

To give you an example of what I'm talking about, some members in another forum developed a technique based on years of experimenting with fullrange drivers to improve the acoustic characteristics of the drivers with some homebrew mods. They freely talk about the technique in the forum, and guide others on how to do it. However, they also wrote white papers on the technique and created a patent, and now run a commercial enterprise where they modify drivers and sell it for a profit to others. If the forum legally takes away the copyright of everything they posted over the years, and let them not even keep their own copyright, they would have taken all their discussions on specific techniques offline.

Another good example is speaker cabinet designs, many of which are available for free in various forums, many others which are commercial, and many of which are both free and commercial, where you can build the design yourself or buy a flatpack or fully made cabinet from the designer. The forum can retain co-ownership of content, but you have to let people keep copyright ownership of their own content as well.

Please, I am only saying this with the best interest of the forum at heart. I would like to see this forum become a singular source of good knowledge and information for people interested in this field.
 
Iam sorry but I could not figure out what went wrong where and when from the posts in this thread though there is indication of somthing went wrong..

Couldn't find out any info from any of the other threads also..

Which means Iam happy. :yahoo:

Though the suspense is killing me?? :rolleyes:
 
hey gobble, i don't think a creative commons license is needed here. Creative Commons licenses generally are for the use of content-generators who are content-generators first and foremost and who then want to regulate (or not regulate) how the content that they create is published, consumed and shared. They have not been drafted keeping in mind a situation like a web forum.

A non-exclusive royalty free license to use the content should be sufficient. It's simple and effective.

I just did some quick research. It looks like avsforum has terms of use in line with what I suggested, whereas avforums has language similar to what is currently in place here. I guess the avforums guys got a bit too enthusiastic.

Maybe HFV can explore a creative commons license?

Creative Commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HTH
Regards
 
hey gobble, i don't think a creative commons license is needed here. Creative Commons licenses generally are for the use of content-generators who are content-generators first and foremost and who then want to regulate (or not regulate) how the content that they create is published, consumed and shared. They have not been drafted keeping in mind a situation like a web forum.

A non-exclusive royalty free license to use the content should be sufficient. It's simple and effective.

I just did some quick research. It looks like avsforum has terms of use in line with what I suggested, whereas avforums has language similar to what is currently in place here. I guess the avforums guys got a bit too enthusiastic.

you know better, I'm no legal eagle :)

Regards
 
My sincere thanks to each and every member who participated in this thread. Contrary to my expectations the contributions were exemplary. The SuperMod and I will read each word carefully and see how we can rephrase the rules.

I have also received a few PMs suggesting similar wordings. We shall consider them all.

Folks, frankly this is the way to go. Bravo to all of you. !!! We took a sticky issues, used our heads, and we are all coming out smiling. As they say in MBA, this a win-win for one and all.

Again, my sincere thanks. I am sure HFV will turn out to a much better place with sincere and committed members like you all.

Cheers
 
Hi Venkat ,

I am not sure if u have included the below - from Mridul Goel - in the rules --

Apart from this, we need to make sure that we put in the following rules :
1). No User Should be allowed to disclose the prices they got the particular product @, specially the exact amount. Yes they can say that we have got 5-10% or 8-12% off from MRP, or something like that. Every individual has there bargaining capacity and every reseller is there to earn, and it all depends on the comfort level between the reseller and the customer...So by placing the prices, you are just putting up the product price specific...This practice shud be stopped...Users are free to Post any offers, schemes going on with any reseller, but definitely not the discount...

2). People commenting on Overseas Purchase thru some website, etc, shud scan and place the bill of complete amount paid...Otherwise most of the members on the forum, start talking and favoring the half knowledged stuff, and blame the resellers...





My humble request to you is to keep the forum consumer friendly ....we have no way of knowing the prices otherwise ......some dealers charge the same as international prices .... and in some the variation in prices is very huge ...........i had this experience recently in the same city of Mumbai between different retailers .........Finally I purchased the amp from grey .... CD in grey from Chennai and the Speakers with Bill and Warranty from a good dealer .........i am a new entrant to this hifi world and its only thanks to this forum that i did save around 10 to 12K ....


In any online there is a fair amount of free speech ......and this should be the case with HFV also ........


Alternatively Dealers and Retailers should share exact prices with HFV ....that would make it more transparent .....


PS : This post is not against Mridul Goel ...
 
I think this got hived off, and I have posted a baffled response in that thread.

Any attempt to stop us talking prices, prospective or paid, would be an huge infringement of personal freedom, and utterly against the spirit of a consumer forum.
 
This is a thankless job. One in which you will lose more friends than you are making. You cannot take sides, must be fair to everyone, and deftly handle highly emotional outbursts of people.

Cheers

And hence the suggestion, sir.

The things you have pointed out are exactly why I emphasized on the need for more number of moderators. I am sure there are quite a few like-minded/neutral members here who won't mind sharing the duties with you (and MBR).
 
Venkat,

First, a big thanks to you and the other moderators for doing a job that is often tedious, troubling, and at times political. One point from the ongoing discussions that I did not see come up is the need to cultivate a feeling of transparency in the working of the moderators, among HFV members. I have seen some members being banned without adequate reasons given by the moderators. That is not the same as saying that the ban was unjustified, only that no reasons (fair or unfair) were given. I have also seen some members using terminology like: "moderators are the ultimate authority, nobody can challenge them on anything"...or "moderators are like (grandparents) in an extended family...only they have the wisdom to lead us wayward members on the right path"... and so on. I am paraphrasing of course, but this is the general tone from some members.

While I accept, support, and appreciate the authority vested in moderators for the smooth functioning of this forum (and they have done a great job, as I've said), I do not believe that members are sheep that need to be led from pasture to pasture. I believe all of us on this forum are intelligent, educated, and sensible people (for the most part, at most times!) and so there should be an open dialogue possible between moderators and members. This is true of HFV for the most part. I do believe you all are quite approachable. However, my point is more on the issue of member bans. When someone is banned, the moderator(s) should at least post a single sentence stating "member X is banned, for y number of days (or lifetime) because X broke forum rule w.v.u in the post #A". The purpose is NOT to "humilitate", or "expose" member X. The purpose is only to help other members understand the reasons for the ban, what is acceptable in the forum and what is not, and what is expected of them in terms of decorum and behaviour. As importantly, it will instil a sense of openness and fairness for the moderator decisions.

I have this niggling feeling (reading numerous posts, dropped hints, and phrases) that members are still not confident enough to speak their mind on this forum, especially when some controversy is ongoing, for fear of an (arbitrary?) ban. This issue cropped up during the Manu-Moserw saga, where there were fervent pleas and numerous threads asking the supermod to reinstate them. Had the supermod posted a single sentence saying that the ban on both was not a lifetime ban, much drama could have been avoided. This is what I mean by transparency in 'banning decisions'. There are other instances, especially during the AE episode as well, but I won't rehash the past again.

Transparency in the reasons behind a ban, or in issuing new forum rules, or any major decision taken by moderators, is something that will make HFV a more democratic and open forum to be in. That's the gist of my long post.

Thanks,
 
To add to ajinkya's post I believe the moderators could handle it as a part of the Announcements thread where members are not allowed to post. That is, it is a closed thread.

That is the only way this can work. Otherwise we are going to have discussions on why the ban took place and whether there was a better way of handling it. As much as such discussions may have merit, there is only so much the moderators can do and decisions have to be theirs and theirs alone. Remember, its that whole responsibility-authority matrix. Its a full circle. Any discussions if need be could be taken up via PM.
 
To add to ajinkya's post I believe the moderators could handle it as a part of the Announcements thread where members are not allowed to post. That is, it is a closed thread.

That is the only way this can work. Otherwise we are going to have discussions on why the ban took place and whether there was a better way of handling it. As much as such discussions may have merit, there is only so much the moderators can do and decisions have to be theirs and theirs alone. Remember, its that whole responsibility-authority matrix. Its a full circle. Any discussions if need be could be taken up via PM.

+1 to that. With as many opinions as there are members, I don't think there's ever going to be an end to this.

Personally I feel an expert like Venkat can channelise his efforts towards writing on Hifi gear for the benefit of all members instead of spending too much of time responding to countless opinions that range from very good to the very pedestrian.

Warm Regds / Shailender
 
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