Clearing the fog about streamers?

[Analogous]

Cambridge CXN V2

Just adding my experience of CXN v2 on these parameters. Not a relative rating (I haven’t used other streamers) but my absolute and subjective rating (10 would be fully satisfied) based on usage of over two years now. I can’t see a link to add a column to a shared sheet, so writing below. Kindly append to your sheet.

1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display - 9/10

Comment: Wish it was heavier than what it is. Otherwise it is sheer ‘understated elegance’ and would delight most users.

2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly - 8/10

Comment - Faced some connection issues in early days and had to factory reset a 2/3 times, but the operating software seems robust enough now (regular updates) with no issues.

3: input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal - 10/10

Comment - All the options one could ask for, including XLR, USB et al. It has a digital pre as well if you chose to use. Just wish there was a way to connect Apple device through USB, but that might be constraint from Apple’s side, so didn’t deduct marks.

4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services - 6.5/10

Comment - Significantly improved with the new app design introduced few months ago, yet the weakest aspect of the product. Nowhere in comparison with apps such as Roon, Tidal et al. Basic user conveniences that could have been easily built in are still lacking. Wonder why the company can’t have one intuitive and empathetic chief UI/ UX designer.

5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features) - 6//10

Comment: I feel the product should have been priced around INR 60k. But then, though the V2 itself is over three years old now, it has not only retained, but increased its price while still maintaining its demand, In general I feel streamers manufacturers are still skimming the market, once it becomes a mass product (soon) like CD players became in late 90’s/early 2000’s, they might be priced more attractively.

Thanks @SachinChavan. I will do this.
But is there a easy way to make the sheet useable by anyone here without me having exclusive control ? (A shared doc but visible on the thread) maybe add a row so that the name of the person can also be added to the review score?
Suggestions welcome from all of course

for the moment this is what I am doing: I copy and paste the last (latest version of the table) and then add new data

 

[OM_2K19]

Include Naim Uniti Atom in your list.

 

[Analogous]

Streamer Scoreboard (with edits as suggested)

Score for each below from 0 to 10 (add streamer name) ->	Chrome cast Audio By Analogous)	Bluesound node2 By Analogous)	Digione signature By Analogous)	Cambridge CXN V2 by Sachin Chavan
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display	5	7	3	9
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly	6	8	2	8
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal.	2	7	5	10
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services..	5	8	4	6.5
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features)	8	5	5	6
Total score	26	35	19	39.5

 

[Analogous]

Include Naim Uniti Atom in your list.

Sure. Please share your scores on the criteria for the Naim Atom.
You can copy and pasted the table (below) yourself with an added column for the Naim if you like.
I have added several columns for others who may want to try.
The big challenge is of course “subjectivity” but unless someone comes up with a multiple choice question type of objective evaluation criteria…
Just a suggestion before giving zero or full 10 marks, do consider if it’s truly deserving. (If it works at all then zero is not possible…)

 

[sydney]

I have listened to these 3 streamers in my system and finally settled down with a Lindemann streamer

	Rpi with Hifiberry Digi Pro​	Allo Usbridge Signature​	Lindemann Bridge​
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display	6	8	9
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly	7	7	9
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal.	8	9	9
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services..	7	7	6
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features)	8	6	9​
Comments	Sound : Warm side Small Form Factor	Sound : Very Bright good build quality Works well with Shanti LPS	Sound : Warm side Small Form Factor Femto Clock Roon Endpoint Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer Moverover if you connect an Apple Drive to the USB port it can be used as a CD player (brownie points)

 

[jigarpatel]

Include Naim Uniti Atom in your list.

Naim Uniti Atom is all in one (Streamer, DAC, Pre amp and Amp ) may not match current criteria of streamer only with dac.
Similarly CXN V2 does contain DAC however you can bypass internal DAC and use as pure streamer.
One can not do the same with Naim Uniti Atom, may not fit comparison criteria.
As a product it's an excellent all in one.

 

[Analogous]

Name of the person scoring each	Analogous	Analogous	Analogous	SachinChavan	OM_2K19
Score for each below from 0 to 10 (add streamer name) ->	Chrome cast Audio By Analogous)	Bluesound node2 By Analogous)	Digione signature By Analogous)	Cambridge CXN V2 by Sachin Chavan	Naim Uniti Atom
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display	5	7	3	9
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly	6	8	2	8
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal.	2	7	5	10
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services..	5	8	4	6.5
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features)	8	5	5	6
Total score	26	35	19	39.5

I have listened to these 3 streamers in my system and finally settled down with a Lindemann streamer

	Rpi with Hifiberry Digi Pro​	Allo Usbridge Signature​	Lindemann Bridge​
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display	6	8	9
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly	7	7	9
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal.	8	9	9
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services..	7	7	6
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features)	8	6	9​
Comments	Sound : Warm side Small Form Factor	Sound : Very Bright good build quality Works well with Shanti LPS	Sound : Warm side Small Form Factor Femto Clock Roon Endpoint Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer Moverover if you connect an Apple Drive to the USB port it can be used as a CD player (brownie points)

@sydney , thanks for sharing your useful scores to compare between these streamers.
I had deliberately not included audio quality as it mostly is a function of the DACs. But I guess the overall combo‘s performance also matters.

 

[sydney]

Name of the person scoring each	Analogous	Analogous	Analogous	SachinChavan	OM_2K19
Score for each below from 0 to 10 (add streamer name) ->	Chrome cast Audio By Analogous)	Bluesound node2 By Analogous)	Digione signature By Analogous)	Cambridge CXN V2 by Sachin Chavan	Naim Uniti Atom
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish, presence of and effectiveness of display	5	7	3	9
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly	6	8	2	8
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply, clean signal.	2	7	5	10
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming services..	5	8	4	6.5
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost vs features)	8	5	5	6
Total score	26	35	19	39.5

@sydney , thanks for sharing your useful scores to compare between these streamers.
I had deliberately not included audio quality as it mostly is a function of the DACs. But I guess the overall combo‘s performance also matters.

Yup agreed i can give an insight on the 3 dacs with a Chord Qutest and AudioNote 2.1 sig. AudioNote though a non-oversampling (max 96/18bit) dac beats the Chord qutest (with all the fancy terms and specs). I never believed until I heard it, previously many forum members had suggested that specs are only on paper, its the sound that matters. Yes now I learnt it after experiencing it.

 

[Analogous]

Yup agreed i can give an insight on the 3 dacs with a Chord Qutest and AudioNote 2.1 sig. AudioNote though a non-oversampling (max 96/18bit) dac beats the Chord qutest (with all the fancy terms and specs). I never believed until I heard it, previously many forum members had suggested that specs are only on paper, its the sound that matters. Yes now I learnt it after experiencing it.

That would be something I would be interested in. Maybe in a separate thread on DACs comparisons and scoring?
There may be an existing one that could be repurposed or revived?

 

[chander]

won't it be extremely difficult for you to compile all these ratings (if that is the aim here - if not ignore and don't even bother reading ahead) and if not compiled for any one here to draw a legit conclusion here?

Is it possible on HFV to have polls - maybe for each budget category? With a 15K range for the first 75 and then 50K range perhaps. Something on those lines?

 

[Analogous]

won't it be extremely difficult for you to compile all these ratings (if that is the aim here - if not ignore and don't even bother reading ahead) and if not compiled for any one here to draw a legit conclusion here?

Is it possible on HFV to have polls - maybe for each budget category? With a 15K range for the first 75 and then 50K range perhaps. Something on those lines?

Who said I was going to compile? Anyone interested can scroll!
besides it’s individual opinions and comparisons as no standardisation of this is possible.
I think it’s still good and valuable information fir anyone deciding on buying a streamer?

The poll idea is interesting too

 

[chander]

Who said I was going to compile?

There was some talk of excel sheets - I thought you were ready to take up this herculean task for the benefit of us mere mortals .

On a more serious note - I am not sure if a poll is possible here though, anyone thinks it is please chime in.

 

[Analogous]

Let’s see if much more comes in (comparisons of Streamers with scores on the five criteria)
But If there is plenty of participation I can compile and maybe produce a graphic representation of the scores. (Spreadsheets with a lot of data are difficult to make sense of beyond a point)
So it may become something like a poll, if…

 

[shyamv]

Talking about standalone streamers, here's something hot off the press. This should be good for those who don't want to fiddle around with RPi based streamers.

iFi’s ZEN Stream: Spotify/Tidal Connect + Roon for £399 | Darko.Audio

Plus NAA, AirPlay, Chromecast Built-in and UPnP.

darko.audio

Apparently, ifi Zen Stream's software is based on a white-labelled version on Volumio with some tweaks from iFi Audio to make it plug-and-play. Hardware does not seem to RPi based though but adopts a similar design principle as Allo/HifiBerry/IQAudio hats ie ultra-low noise and jitter over USB and SPDIF transports. Will be available shortly on Headphone Zone for 37K. Would be interesting to compare against Rpi based streamers. I wouldn't be surprised if this, like Allo products, compares very well against expensive options.

 

[Amitdubey]

@Beast_of_burden i take your point on DACs.

However, the point of this thread was to differentiate between the streamer and DAC functions and find a way to evaluate various streamers on their merits. (All streamers have a DAC? but we can leave the DAC evaluation separate)
As we know there are so many platforms as also Apps and OS. They all seem to have their strengths and weaknesses.
This is an attempt at bringing some kind of logic (?) to help compare the various streamers. The points 1 to 5 above are suggestions for this purpose. What do you feel?
Maybe you could evaluate the Allo Boss 2 using these criteria and share?

Streamer Scoreboard

Score for each below from 0 to 10	Chrome cast Audio	Bluesound node 2i	NUC	Raspberry pi based streamer
1. Physical design, elegance, style, quality of fit and finish and effectiveness of display
2. Ease of set up, stability in receiving and transmitting audio streams, wired and wirelessly
3. input and output options (Spdif, optical, RCA etc) power supply.
4. Quality of App and OS, user interface, ease of use, experience, variety of streaming choices.
5. Value for money as a streamer (cost and features)
Total score

What about sound quality as a parameter? Least important..eh?

 

[shyamv]

What about sound quality as a parameter? Least important..eh?

The job of a streamer is to pass bit-perfect, low-jitter, noise-free audio signal at all times in a reliable manner to the upstream DAC. It should, and can, have ZERO impact on audio quality. In that sense, audio quality of a streamer does not matter. It is only when the streamer introduces noise or jitter then the audio signal takes on certain characteristics.

 

[Analogous]

What about sound quality as a parameter? Least important..eh?

Not hardly.
if you look through the earlier posts you will find out why we are focussing on the core qualities of streamers other than the DACs functions (if built in to the streamer). The table lists the suggested criteria but if you prefer to include sound quality as one of these criteria then you can add a column at the bottom and assign your scores.

 

[rajeshv]

Do they all sound the same or different ?
The sound quality of a different streamers digital out being fed to the same rest of the chain kept fixed ,ie cables/ DAC/ AMP /Speaker.
for eg: Chromecast audio / cxnv2 / lumin u1 mini/ lindeman limetree bridge / bluesound node 2i etc

Theoretically 1's and 0's being transmitted at correct time interval should be the same digital signal.

But the 1's and 0's being represented by electric signals, still being affected by the laws of physics- not absolute mathematics.

John darko once said that the 1's and 0's are still analogue representation of a digital signal. Accordingly, even the cable used for digital signal affects the quality of sound , sure for a lesser extent than to an analogue signal. ( there are still two different opinions).

Another important aspect of the streamer will be the power supply. There are some reports which states that allo digione with shanti power supply sounds better than cxnv2 ( i think by John Darko). Most likely it is due to the LPS as CXNV2 does not have LPS.

It then is a comparison whether the difference in jitter of the products compared affects significantly or not -the streaming quality noticeable by the listener.

In the evaluation, as suggested at #36 , it will be useful for the hifi enthusiasts to know the information on SQ of various streamers - considering the same rest of the chain .

The FOG will then be displaced by the candle of light .

We can then buy a streamer of our choice and an external DAC at a later stage, say Denafrips Terminator which is at the pinnacle keeping aside the high end such as dcs etc. - or buy a streamer with builtin dac

cheers

 

[KiranPS]

IMHO the streamers responsibility is not to generate good Analog output , a DAC does that. Streamer should have the ability to connect to the most streaming services, Support the widest variety of formats, Support Good UI for the Discovery and Playback of local and Streamed content (Album art etc), The control app should not suck. The Streamer can then generates an Accurate Digital Signal as AES / EBU, I2S , SPDIF etc that a DAC can consume to generate the Analog out. Even if the Streamer has the Best Built in DAC and does not support the streaming service you use say Tidal or has bad remote Control App , then its not very useful. On the other hand if the Streamer supports All the Streaming Services and Local Media discovery with great UI with a mediocre built in DAC and also has Digital Output, then I can Pair it with any DAC that I have, or even mix and match DACs till i get the sound signature I like .

 

[sydney]

Yes but streamer have their sound signature
Example Allo USbridge signature is very bright sometimes high pitched sound just hits u in the face