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Color management systems for LCD's

Wharfedale Diamond 11 Series

realactivex

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
307
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Dear All,
I will have to buy a 32" 1080p LCD in under two months.
I have not yet surveyed the market (i am in bangalore) and have no intentions of making a purchase based on what i see in the showroom.

We do know that manufacturers screw up big time on the colors and greyscale just to add that unnatural pep to their screens, for which most of the buyers succumb to.

I just wanted to know if there are any displays (LCD/plasma in the 32" range) which have advanced color management systems, so that i can calibrate my display scientifically.
I am asking a friend of mine to get me a colorimeter from the US.


Sadly, no manufacturer ever talks about all this. They enjoy in screwing established standards just to fool customers into thinking that their tv is better than the rest (Vivid colours is what they say) to unethically ensure they get a bigger market share. It is too late by the time customers realise that the skin tones are way UN-natural and the grass on the lawns are glowing green!


Regards
MURALI
 
Last edited:

psychotropic

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Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
2,832
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83
Location
Chennai, India
Dear Murali, Going for 1080p at 32" is a waste, considering that it will be virtually impossible for you to make out the difference between 720p and 1080p at that size, due to something known as the acuity of vision.

It's at about 40" that differences start to be come visible, people like CNET even say that up to 50" the difference is negligible.

I know that Samsung offers a lot of advanced settings including colour settings, that others like Sony and Panasonic do not offer, i'd recommend you download some manuals from the internet and read them to be sure which controls you are getting.


Dear All,
I will have to buy a 32" 1080p LCD in under two months.
I have not yet surveyed the market (i am in bangalore) and have no intentions of making a purchase based on what i see in the showroom.

We do know that manufacturers screw up big time on the colors and greyscale just to add that unnatural pep to their screens, for which most of the buyers succumb to.

I just wanted to know if there are any displays (LCD/plasma in the 32" range) which have advanced color management systems, so that i can calibrate my display scientifically.
I am asking a friend of mine to get me a colorimeter from the US.


Sadly, no manufacturer ever talks about all this. They enjoy in screwing established standards just to fool customers into thinking that their tv is better than the rest (Vivid colours is what they say) to unethically ensure they get a bigger market share. It is too late by the time customers realise that the skin tones are way UN-natural and the grass on the lawns are glowing green!


Regards
MURALI
 

adder

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
2,571
Points
83
Location
bangalore
Dear All,
I will have to buy a 32" 1080p LCD in under two months.
I have not yet surveyed the market (i am in bangalore) and have no intentions of making a purchase based on what i see in the showroom.

We do know that manufacturers screw up big time on the colors and greyscale just to add that unnatural pep to their screens, for which most of the buyers succumb to.

I just wanted to know if there are any displays (LCD/plasma in the 32" range) which have advanced color management systems, so that i can calibrate my display scientifically.
I am asking a friend of mine to get me a colorimeter from the US.


Sadly, no manufacturer ever talks about all this. They enjoy in screwing established standards just to fool customers into thinking that their tv is better than the rest (Vivid colours is what they say) to unethically ensure they get a bigger market share. It is too late by the time customers realise that the skin tones are way UN-natural and the grass on the lawns are glowing green!


Regards
MURALI

well in sony u can access the sony service menu and get the advanced settings just like u get in a typical lcd monitor.
 

marsilians

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Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
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Location
117.192.87.109
Hi Murali

Welcome to the forum. Every tv has color management settings. so not sure what you are trying to achieve. There are typically 3-4 fixed settings such as movie, sports, etc. and one custom setting wherein you can change all the colors. on some tv's even the fixed settings are customizable.

i used spyder to setup my plasma. no reason it cannot be used for LCDs.Also i will second physchtropic in that you won't see a diff between 1080 & 720 p for monitors upto 50 inch.
 

plasmoid

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Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
455
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Location
Bangalore
Samsung indeed has the best advanced settings including whitebalance and color space matrix to finetune your color calibration.You can have access to these settings in service menus in other tvs, but the downside of this is it voids your warranty.Everytime u enter the service menu it writes a log which the service technician can find out and refuse free service.happened to my friend with sony(who apparently love to refuse any type of free service)
 

smedhavi

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Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
768
Points
63
Location
Bangalore
The other factor to consider here while deciding on the resolution, apart from the size of the screen, is the viewing distance. If you are sitting close to the screen you can easily differentiate between a 720p vs 1080p display. For example, almost everyone prefers 1024 line resolution on a 17/19 inch computer monitor, as compared to 768 lines.

Though in case case of a TV, it is the source which is the weakest link in the chain for us in India. So a good signal on a 720P display looks better than poor signal on a 1080P display.

I would also recommend Samsung, as Sony is comparatively over priced and they believe in proprietary technologies. Though Sony does produce slightly better colors out of the box, but Samsung can be tuned using a good setup disk. I have no personal experience on LG.

Regards,
Sharad
 

realactivex

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
307
Points
28
Location
Bangalore
Hi Murali

Welcome to the forum. Every tv has color management settings. so not sure what you are trying to achieve. There are typically 3-4 fixed settings such as movie, sports, etc. and one custom setting wherein you can change all the colors. on some tv's even the fixed settings are customizable.

i used spyder to setup my plasma. no reason it cannot be used for LCDs.Also i will second physchtropic in that you won't see a diff between 1080 & 720 p for monitors upto 50 inch.

Thanks All for your inputs! I do agree after doing a new round of internet forums, that 1080/720p does not really matter for viewing at regular TV distance. The reason I was looking for 1080p is plain stupid. I have a 1080p Projector and in case i decide to connect both the projector and the TV to the same HDMI out port of my AVR (yet to buy- but strongly incliined towards the onkyo SR876(2 HDMI OUT) or 875(1 hdmi OUT)), i dont want my AVR to get confused between1080p passthrough and 720p down scaling (for 1080p material)
I havent been into all this before and i am pretty much primitive though i have been in Hifivision for well over an year and have been visiting world AV fora.
At this point, i am inclined toward a 32" 720p LCD (as rightly pointed by al of you) that it really doesnt matter at our viewing distances. Just wanted you learned people to confirm if it becomes a bottleneck to my 1080p projector as they both will be using the same AVR for HDMI out.
What is the Sammy TV model at 32" which gives the most bang for buck and what is the approx price? Sorry, i have been ignorant of recent TV models.

This is something i picked from a forum
Quote" for a 50-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p start to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 14.6 feet and become fully apparent at 9.8 feet. For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 9.8 feet and become full apparent at 6.5 feet. In my opinion, 6.5 feet is closer than most people will sit to their 50" plasma TV (even through the THX recommended viewing distance for a 50" screen is 5.6 ft). So, most consumers will not be able to see the full benefit of their 1080p TV.

However, front projectors and rear projection displays are a different story. They make it very easy to obtain large screen sizes. Plus, LCD and Plasma displays are constantly getting larger and less expensive. In my home, for example, If I have a 123-inch screen and a projector with a 1280720 resolution, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p starts to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 36 feet (14 feet behind my back wall) and become fully apparent at 24 feet (2 feet behind my back wall). For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 24 feet and become full apparent at 16 feet (just between the first and second row of seating in my theater). This means that people in the back row of my home theater would see some improvement if I purchased a 1080p projector and that people in the front row would notice a drastic improvement. (Note: the THX recommended max viewing distance for a 123" screen is 13.7 feet)." Unquote.
 

spiderman

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
94
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Location
Singapore
Dear All,
I will have to buy a 32" 1080p LCD in under two months.
I have not yet surveyed the market (i am in bangalore) and have no intentions of making a purchase based on what i see in the showroom.

We do know that manufacturers screw up big time on the colors and greyscale just to add that unnatural pep to their screens, for which most of the buyers succumb to.

I just wanted to know if there are any displays (LCD/plasma in the 32" range) which have advanced color management systems, so that i can calibrate my display scientifically.
I am asking a friend of mine to get me a colorimeter from the US.


Sadly, no manufacturer ever talks about all this. They enjoy in screwing established standards just to fool customers into thinking that their tv is better than the rest (Vivid colours is what they say) to unethically ensure they get a bigger market share. It is too late by the time customers realise that the skin tones are way UN-natural and the grass on the lawns are glowing green!


Regards
MURALI

Dear Murali

You may want to look at Toshiba Regza CV500 series TV which I purchased recently. It is one of the few TV's that has 3D colour managment system that actually allows you to customize the hue, skin tone, color brightness for each of the six basic colors seperately. Besides you can perfectly adjust skin colour or grass colour with out affecting the the other colours. It needs a little bit of technical skill to use that feature and if you find that complicated you can always chosse the built in factory settings. I suggest to check the Toshiba Regza website for more details.

Sound quality as well as PQ is also quite good as compared to other brands and all those who have seen it in my house were quite impressed. Highly recommended brand.

Hope it helps.
 

marsilians

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This is something i picked from a forum
Quote" for a 50-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p start to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 14.6 feet and become fully apparent at 9.8 feet. For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 9.8 feet and become full apparent at 6.5 feet. In my opinion, 6.5 feet is closer than most people will sit to their 50" plasma TV (even through the THX recommended viewing distance for a 50" screen is 5.6 ft). So, most consumers will not be able to see the full benefit of their 1080p TV.

The quote does not mention the signal source, which is what determines the quality the most. Anyways, I can tell you from personal experience:

For TV viewing, the picture quality does not detereorate even at 6 ft distance on a 50in plasma.
At about 5 ft or so, I can start to see the artifacts.

For standard DVDs, I start to see artifacts at about 4 ft.

For HD signlas, I see artifacts around 3 ft.
 

spiderman

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
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How much did the toshiba cost?

I purchased it in Singapore in one of my business trips so got it very cheap at half the price to whats retailing in India. I think the current MRP for this model in India is Rs. 45,000/- in Bombay but again might be a few rupees plus or minus depending on the city/state that you are based and your expertise in haggling with the vendor.

More details about the TV can be found here: Toshiba REGZA

Cheers
 
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