Confused between Stabiliser, PC UPS and home UPS for AVR -Seeking help.

[kmathan88]

Recently I had to replace my 15years old PowerZone inverter to Luminous Eco Volt 1050. Now the problem is my AVR restart on power failure. I checked it by setting the inverter in both eco and ups mode.

Main -> inverter -> vguard stabilizer -> avr

I never had this issue with my old inverter. Our apartment generator kicks in within a min. All I need is sufficient time to gracefully power off everything. AVR restart makes me nerves.

Should I connect the AVR to some APC UPS. I have APC BX600C-IN 600VA for router and nas. Have BR1000G-IN for PC, which is not used currently.

Please suggest.

 

[tuff]

Recently I had to replace my 15years old PowerZone inverter to Luminous Eco Volt 1050. Now the problem is my AVR restart on power failure. I checked it by setting the inverter in both eco and ups mode.

Main -> inverter -> vguard stabilizer -> avr

I never had this issue with my old inverter. Our apartment generator kicks in within a min. All I need is sufficient time to gracefully power off everything. AVR restart makes me nerves.

Should I connect the AVR to some APC UPS. I have APC BX600C-IN 600VA for router and nas. Have BR1000G-IN for PC, which is not used currently.

Please suggest.

Have you gotten the battery checked? It might have aged and needs to be replaced.

 

[sandeepmohan]

As a general rule, I would not run an AVR or any audio gear under power conditioning device or a UPS of any kind, unless the line itself is so bad or unstable. For surge, use a good quality surge protector strip from Belkin( The most expensive one. I know this one works as I have used it)). If voltage does not fluctuate too far off the mark, your audio gear will run just fine. Keep the audio power source on a separate phase and one that isn't on load from from high surge devices such as Air Conditioner, Water Heater, Water Pump, etc. Most Metro and Metropolitan cities in India have fairly good and stable power today.

I used to live in Bangalore. Power was quite reliable (Apart from the odd shut down) and I did not use any power or surge devices for my HT. I did use a cheap surge protector for my Hi Fi and that was primarily cause there were insufficient number of sockets for me to plug in my gear.

Switch off AV gear at the plug overnight or when it is going to be left unused for a while. Never ever leave it on stand by for extended period. You may have to deal with some inconvenience over HDMI hand shake but I'd rather deal with waiting a few minutes versus the risk of leaving the devices in Stand By. Even with a surge protector in front of your AV devices, there is still a small risk of the surge protection device not acting fast enough to a surge.

 

[kmathan88]

Have you gotten the battery checked? It might have aged and needs to be replaced.

Probably because of battery life / compatibility. It is 4 years old Exide 88ah battery.

 

[kmathan88]

Keep the audio power source on a separate phase and one that isn't on load from from high surge devices such as Air Conditioner, Water Heater, Water Pump, etc

I have single phase supply to my apartment. We get 2 inputs to our home, 1 is for heavy equipment's (AC, Water Heater, ..) and 2nd is for the rest. DG is supplied to 2nd line. My inverter is connected to the 2nd line. So, I don't think AVR can be connected to 1st line. I live in Bangalore but I get frequent power cuts and voltage fluctuate often in our apartment.

Current setup:
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Smartthings Plug -> VGuard Stabilizer -> Belkin -> TV / DTH
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Smartthings Plug -> VGuard Stabilizer -> power strip -> AVR (I can replace power strip to belkin surge protector )
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Belkin -> Subwoofer

Smart Plug is switched on only while using TV / AVR.
DTH is not connected to AVR. I use Nvidia shield / PC as source.

Option 1: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to Main/DG line without Inverter supply.

Option 2: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to Main/DG line (without Inverter supply) with APC UPS

Option 3:
Connect AVR to Main/DG (with inverter) with APC UPS

Option 4: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to 1st line (along with heavy equipment). this one is not recommended I guess.

I have raised a complaint with Luminous to see if there is problem with Inverter / battery.

 

[sandeepmohan]

I have single phase supply to my apartment.

In my view, this is the biggest problem. Unfortunately; We have to work with what we've got.

Why do you have an inverter when there is generator back up?

You should take out the generator, inverter, smart plug (I am not sure what this even does to help clean up power) from the chain. They are all going to add more noise in the line. Even if the stabilizer if you can but then you are facing fluctuations, which I find strange for Bangalore.

It now feels like the cleanest and more stable source of power is the line for your higher energy devices.

On the other hand, I also wonder if it makes much sense to do all this for something like a HTIB solution.

 

[HTuser]

I have single phase supply to my apartment. We get 2 inputs to our home, 1 is for heavy equipment's (AC, Water Heater, ..) and 2nd is for the rest. DG is supplied to 2nd line. My inverter is connected to the 2nd line. So, I don't think AVR can be connected to 1st line. I live in Bangalore but I get frequent power cuts and voltage fluctuate often in our apartment.

Current setup:
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Smartthings Plug -> VGuard Stabilizer -> Belkin -> TV / DTH
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Smartthings Plug -> VGuard Stabilizer -> power strip -> AVR (I can replace power strip to belkin surge protector )
Main/DG -> Inverter -> Belkin -> Subwoofer

Smart Plug is switched on only while using TV / AVR.
DTH is not connected to AVR. I use Nvidia shield / PC as source.

Option 1: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to Main/DG line without Inverter supply.

Option 2: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to Main/DG line (without Inverter supply) with APC UPS

Option 3:
Connect AVR to Main/DG (with inverter) with APC UPS

Option 4: Re-wiring required
Connect AVR to 1st line (along with heavy equipment). this one is not recommended I guess.

I have raised a complaint with Luminous to see if there is problem with Inverter / battery.

I have Luminous inverter and multiple devices in AV setup used to reboot when power switchover to battery. But switchover back to mains (when power resumes) was smooth. I changed Inverter mode to UPS mode, after that other devices were not rebooting but AVR was still rebooting when power fails.

I had a normal 600VA computer UPS as spare, I connected AVR through that, now AVR is not rebooting. If you would like to avoid the rebooting of AVR but not worried too much on multiple devices in the power line before AVR, you can consider this (Option 3 you have mentioned).

 

[ssf]

Purchased a 1.5 VA LI UPS from Numeric after i purchased my TV. Switched of the 500 va inverter connected to the light switches of the Flat. Connected all my devices (Including the 750W RMS Velodyne Sub !!!) to the Barracudda Power Distribution Centre which has a 20A surge protection unit, which is in turn connected to the UPS. I never run my setup on the UPS. It is there only to prevent an abnormal shutdown. My Flat has a generator which switches on in under 30 seconds. 65 inch TV, Marantz 7010 receiver and Sub does not trip the UPS if the power goes off.

 

[yugaaa]

Connecting AVR to a 600 VA ups is a very big mistake . Most UPS in the market can output only square wave while an AVR needs sine wave for the transformer . Next is 600 VA ups does not do 600 VA continuously .
AVR can be connected to a stabiliser or can be connected to a UPS which outputs pure sine wave .
There are instances when UPS shuts down when the generator is started . This is due to frequency of the generator which is below 48 HZ . Make sure generator when switched on connects above 48 HZ .
Most home inverters deliver a modified sine wave which is ok with some brands and some inverters are not suitable for running appliances like fans due to the wave patterns

 

[ssf]

A small correction. My UPS is a 2000 VA Line Interactive, Sine Wave UPS and not a 1.5 VA as mentioned in my post above. It does not have any problems when the generator switches on.

 

[kmathan88]

Why do you have an inverter when there is generator back up?

You should take out the generator, inverter, smart plug (I am not sure what this even does to help clean up power) from the chain. They are all going to add more noise in the line. Even if the stabilizer if you can but then you are facing fluctuations, which I find strange for Bangalore.

There are times generator is out of service in our apartment. And I have lot of smart bulb which don't like power cuts. So, inverter is kind of must for us.

I use smart plug basically to switch on / off device with the click of a button. More of a convenient add on.

 

[kmathan88]

I have Luminous inverter and multiple devices in AV setup used to reboot when power switchover to battery. But switchover back to mains (when power resumes) was smooth. I changed Inverter mode to UPS mode, after that other devices were not rebooting but AVR was still rebooting when power fails.

I had a normal 600VA computer UPS as spare, I connected AVR through that, now AVR is not rebooting. If you would like to avoid the rebooting of AVR but not worried too much on multiple devices in the power line before AVR, you can consider this (Option 3 you have mentioned).

Even I am inclined towards this option. Let me read more. Average power usage of my AVR is around 35W to 55W, not sure if it is correct (I got this from smart plug real time power usage). So, I can get away with APC 600va computer UPS I guess.

 

[kmathan88]

Connecting AVR to a 600 VA ups is a very big mistake . Most UPS in the market can output only square wave while an AVR needs sine wave for the transformer . Next is 600 VA ups does not do 600 VA continuously .
AVR can be connected to a stabiliser or can be connected to a UPS which outputs pure sine wave .
There are instances when UPS shuts down when the generator is started . This is due to frequency of the generator which is below 48 HZ . Make sure generator when switched on connects above 48 HZ .
Most home inverters deliver a modified sine wave which is ok with some brands and some inverters are not suitable for running appliances like fans due to the wave patterns

I have below two UPS, it says

• Waveform type
  Stepped approximation to a sinewave
• Transfer Time
  8ms typical : 12ms maximum

https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/prod...Software-India/P-BX600C-IN?isCurrentSite=true
https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/prod...CD-230V-India/P-BR1000G-IN?isCurrentSite=true

I have seen lot of people recommending APC for AVR. So, I am under an impression that this UPS are safe to use for normal AVR. I am not sure about noise added and purity of power. If it not going to affect the life of my AVR and don't restart I am good with it. What do you think ?

 

[ssf]

600va is around 360 watts. Your receiver is 430 watts (I am guessing at full power) If it is a sine wave and you are not running the receiver hot, it just might work. But then again, I am not at an expert on this at all.

 

[Love4sound]

So what is the conclusion here? I use a denon 2400 with surge protector nd a voltage stabilizer. I do have power cuts time to time nd I am very much worried if this may affect my avr. So I am very much confused on what to use. An inverter or an offline ups. Can someone guide me please?

 

[jsmithe]

So what is the conclusion here? I use a denon 2400 with surge protector nd a voltage stabilizer. I do have power cuts time to time nd I am very much worried if this may affect my avr. So I am very much confused on what to use. An inverter or an offline ups. Can someone guide me please?

I am not an expert but I suppose that in descending order of expense(excluding damage due to no safeguards) and protection some of your options are connecting Mains Power to:

1. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + Online UPS ( Sine wave) to AV Equipment
2. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + CVT / Servo + Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
3. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
4. Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
5. Surge Protector + Stabilizer to AV Equipment
6. AV Equipment

Don't bother with Square Wave Inverters for your AV equipment.

 

[Love4sound]

I am not an expert but I suppose that in descending order of expense(excluding damage due to no safeguards) and protection some of your options are connecting Mains Power to:

1. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + Online UPS ( Sine wave) to AV Equipment
2. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + CVT / Servo + Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
3. High / Low Voltage Cutoff + Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
4. Offline UPS/Inverter (Sine wave) to AV Equipment
5. Surge Protector + Stabilizer to AV Equipment
6. AV Equipment

Don't bother with Square Wave Inverters for your AV equipment.

Thanks for your inputs. I am currently using option 5. So during power cut the avr shuts down and a Local dealer says that will spoil the circuit and I will know it in the later stages and advised me to get a ups. Another dealer says don’t get a ups that will spoil the speakers and to go for inverter. And in so many forums it is mentioned the avr does restart during power cuts when used with an inverter meaning the inverter fails to fulfil my requirement

 

[jsmithe]

Thanks for your inputs. I am currently using option 5. So during power cut the avr shuts down and a Local dealer says that will spoil the circuit and I will know it in the later stages and advised me to get a ups. Another dealer says don’t get a ups that will spoil the speakers and to go for inverter.

A sine wave inverter should not damage your equipment, but yes there are brands that do mention warranty void if used with inverter (Marantz is one I think). Not sure if that means square wave inverters or sine wave inverters or all inverters.

On the other hand, many FM's including myself are using inverters to run their AV equipment during power failures (some perhaps just enough to safely shutdown) . However the fact that we haven't seen problems doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any.

And in so many forums it is mentioned the avr does restart during power cuts when used with an inverter meaning the inverter fails to fulfil my requirement

Most inverters these days have a selector switch that lets you put it in a mode that can keep a desktop computer from rebooting when the change over from mains to inverter happens and if a desktop computer doesn't reboot when it's power source is switched over by such an inverter, your AVR should not either. The drawback is slightly increased power consumption in this mode. The normal mode in inverters will result in the desktop computer rebooting during the change over.

 

[Love4sound]

A sine wave inverter should not damage your equipment, but yes there are brands that do mention warranty void if used with inverter (Marantz is one I think). Not sure if that means square wave inverters or sine wave inverters or all inverters.

On the other hand, many FM's including myself are using inverters to run their AV equipment during power failures (some perhaps just enough to safely shutdown) . However the fact that we haven't seen problems doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any.


Most inverters these days have a selector switch that lets you put it in a mode that can keep a desktop computer from rebooting when the change over from mains to inverter happens and if a desktop computer doesn't reboot when it's power source is switched over by such an inverter, your AVR should not either. The drawback is slightly increased power consumption in this mode. The normal mode in inverters will result in the desktop computer rebooting during the change over.

Thanks for clarifying. May I know what avr nd inverter you use? I don’t need back up all I need is to safely turn off my device during a power cut that’s all

 

[jsmithe]

May I know what avr nd inverter you use? I don’t need back up all I need is to safely turn off my device during a power cut that’s all

AVR: Kenwood
Inverter: Luminous Zelio