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Confused ...

Wharfedale Evo 4.2

khaadu75

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Hi ,

I know all of you may be sick of another newbie coming in and asking a question thats been discussed at length in other threads but Im still starting a new one and hope its ok .

Im looking to buy a 37/42 inch TV and am confused as usual between the LCD/Plasma debate .

1. I would need the Tv to watch regular TV/movies ( about an hour a day/ 10 movies in 2 months ) and about 3-4 hrs of my PS2 gaming on it . These are average figures .

2. The cable feed is through the set top box and viwing distance is about 10 ft .

3. Fully HD option aint that important as its still gonna be a while before we get HD feeds and by then even the 42 inch would look small .

4. Can spend upto 56 - 60 k , its gonna be financed so not much worry about a grand here or a grand there .

People say that LCD is newer technology and thats fine but I wouldn't mind slightly older technology as long as it serves my purpose of viewing in a bigger size . Also Id debate between Samsung and Panasonic .

Need to buy it before Diwali as a gift to my wife so please suggest ASAP ... and also where in Delhi would I get the best price offer + deals .

Let your suggestions flow ....:)

Thanx

PS - I heard of something about plasmas having gas that doesnt allow for one to view TV for long stretches , is that true ??
 

adder

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well since u are going to finace it i suggest u get a samsung series 5 lcd since u are going to game.
now about that plasma gas stuff well plasma suffer from a burn in where a static image being displayed over a long period like may be ur channel symbol,in games there are many things that are static.so this will cause a permanent damage in a plasma tv such that the image will be there even if u change the channels or video source.plasma tv of 2008 also suffer from burn in.
and at a distance of 10feet a 40inch tv is right choice.
800px-

above image from a plasma that has suffere burn in.
 
Last edited:

psychotropic

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hey dude, both LCD and plasma are excellent technologies and are closely comparable these days. In my opinion plasma looks better, and for a size like 42 inches offers a better value proposition than LCD. Burn-in is not much of a problem any more as:

a) the panels themselves have evolved considerably and are much more resistent to burn-in, in much the same way as LCDs have improved their contrast levels and motion tracking.

b) it only occurs on a single high contrast image staying in one place for an extended period of time (several hours at least). most channel logos (and DTH logos) these days are low-contrast and keep disappearing for ad breaks.

c) TVs feature pixel-shift technology, which moves the entire image by one or two pixels (which is imperceptible to the viewer) but which prevents the image from staying in one position and causing burn-in.

d) TVs have white-out options where, upon image retention occuring it displays a plain white image, which can be left on for a few hours to get rid of image retention.

Plasmas have far better contrast ratio, leading to better blacks and they have better colour reproduction, and viewing from acute angles is flawless, unlike LCDs. Plasmas also tend to have better motion tracking, so are better for viewing sports.

For about 53-55k you can get a Samsung 410 42 inch plasma (i own this). This is fantastic for HD pictures, and decent for SD pictures. For better upscaling of SD pictures, you can go for a Panasonic PV8H, which comes for about 59k. Both Samsung and Panasonic make excellent budget Plasma TVs, but Panasonic is probably an all-round better performer, but for a slightly higher price. reignofchaos has compared these plasmas and concluded that the Samsung has better HD images, while the Panny has better SD. End of the day you can compare them yourself and see. There are no compelling LCD options that offer you this level of size and picture quality in this price range.

The "gas" story is a MYTH by the way....it's utter bullshit!

And adder, it's a pretty stupid idea to use plasma panels for signage and display purposes, as there will be constant high-contrast images at all times! I suppose this picture is from a few years back, when LCD panels were not available at the required sizes.





Hi ,

I know all of you may be sick of another newbie coming in and asking a question thats been discussed at length in other threads but Im still starting a new one and hope its ok .

Im looking to buy a 37/42 inch TV and am confused as usual between the LCD/Plasma debate .

1. I would need the Tv to watch regular TV/movies ( about an hour a day/ 10 movies in 2 months ) and about 3-4 hrs of my PS2 gaming on it . These are average figures .

2. The cable feed is through the set top box and viwing distance is about 10 ft .

3. Fully HD option aint that important as its still gonna be a while before we get HD feeds and by then even the 42 inch would look small .

4. Can spend upto 56 - 60 k , its gonna be financed so not much worry about a grand here or a grand there .

People say that LCD is newer technology and thats fine but I wouldn't mind slightly older technology as long as it serves my purpose of viewing in a bigger size . Also Id debate between Samsung and Panasonic .

Need to buy it before Diwali as a gift to my wife so please suggest ASAP ... and also where in Delhi would I get the best price offer + deals .

Let your suggestions flow ....:)

Thanx

PS - I heard of something about plasmas having gas that doesnt allow for one to view TV for long stretches , is that true ??
 

psychotropic

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Oh wait, I missed out the gaming bit. I have no clue about gaming. If gaming involves static high-contrast images, then by all means go for an LCD, not worth taking a chance with the Plasma. A 40" Samsung 4 series LCD the LA40A450C1, should be available for around 60-62k.
 

adder

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hey dude, both LCD and plasma are excellent technologies and are closely comparable these days. In my opinion plasma looks better, and for a size like 42 inches offers a better value proposition than LCD. Burn-in is not much of a problem any more as:

a) the panels themselves have evolved considerably and are much more resistent to burn-in, in much the same way as LCDs have improved their contrast levels and motion tracking.

b) it only occurs on a single high contrast image staying in one place for an extended period of time (several hours at least). most channel logos (and DTH logos) these days are low-contrast and keep disappearing for ad breaks.

c) TVs feature pixel-shift technology, which moves the entire image by one or two pixels (which is imperceptible to the viewer) but which prevents the image from staying in one position and causing burn-in.

d) TVs have white-out options where, upon image retention occuring it displays a plain white image, which can be left on for a few hours to get rid of image retention.

Plasmas have far better contrast ratio, leading to better blacks and they have better colour reproduction, and viewing from acute angles is flawless, unlike LCDs. Plasmas also tend to have better motion tracking, so are better for viewing sports.

For about 53-55k you can get a Samsung 410 42 inch plasma (i own this). This is fantastic for HD pictures, and decent for SD pictures. For better upscaling of SD pictures, you can go for a Panasonic PV8H, which comes for about 59k. Both Samsung and Panasonic make excellent budget Plasma TVs, but Panasonic is probably an all-round better performer, but for a slightly higher price. reignofchaos has compared these plasmas and concluded that the Samsung has better HD images, while the Panny has better SD. End of the day you can compare them yourself and see. There are no compelling LCD options that offer you this level of size and picture quality in this price range.

And adder, it's a pretty stupid idea to use plasma panels for signage and display purposes, as there will be constant high-contrast images at all times! I suppose this picture is from a few years back, when LCD panels were not available at the required sizes.

well take a look at the date of the picture its say 2007,but yes plasma are improving but its still affected by that ,and not all dth providers symbol goes away during AD take for eg BIG TV DTH there annoying symbol is shown all the time,and u cant even see the results in formula 1.
even in the panasonic 2008 plasma review they warned about the burn in issue they suffered.
now he is going to game for 4hrs a day.
and lcd from samsung and sony have surpassed many plasmas contrast levels,and lcds have comparable black levels,and some lcds that have LED backlight can show a black level of 0.0.
 

anuragn

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@Adder: Which LCDs have surpassed contrast ratios of Plasmas?
Nowadays, max (dynamic) contrast ratios in LCDs are in the range of 50k:1 while Panasonic's PV8 has 1 million:1 ...
Even the native contrast ratios in high-end LCD's are no match at all with any entry level plasma (compare 3000:1 in LCDs with that of 15000:1 in Plasmas).
Agreed that in case of gaming, LCD should be preferred.
And regarding the airport display picture, Plasma screens were installed in airports long back, and even though this picture was taken in 2007, it does not tell how old the display is.
 

adder

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@Adder: Which LCDs have surpassed contrast ratios of Plasmas?
Nowadays, max (dynamic) contrast ratios in LCDs are in the range of 50k:1 while Panasonic's PV8 has 1 million:1 ...
Even the native contrast ratios in high-end LCD's are no match at all with any entry level plasma (compare 3000:1 in LCDs with that of 15000:1 in Plasmas).
Agreed that in case of gaming, LCD should be preferred.
And regarding the airport display picture, Plasma screens were installed in airports long back, and even though this picture was taken in 2007, it does not tell how old the display is.

well lcds from samsung and sony have surpassed plasma like PV8 which has a contrast measured at 1800:1 and the samsung last year plasma have a contrast of 916:1 while the lcd from samsung series 5,6 and sony W,x,v etc have a contrast as high as 3000.offcourse their dynamic contrast exceed this figure by a huge margin and lcd with ACTIVE LED backlight can surpass the native contrast figures too.
well pioneer plasma the very best of the lot only gives a native contrast of aprox 3620:1 not 15000:1 while the samsung series 8 gives a native contrast of 3000:1 while its dynamic contrast is stated at 70000:1.
but they have warned about the burn in issue in the panasonic plasma.
 

spirovious

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well since u are going to finace it i suggest u get a samsung series 5 lcd since u are going to game.
now about that plasma gas stuff well plasma suffer from a burn in where a static image being displayed over a long period like may be ur channel symbol,in games there are many things that are static.so this will cause a permanent damage in a plasma tv such that the image will be there even if u change the channels or video source.plasma tv of 2008 also suffer from burn in.
and at a distance of 10feet a 40inch tv is right choice.
800px-

above image from a plasma that has suffere burn in.


Hi,

Can you tell me difference in Pany LX800 & 85?

When I saw 700 & 75 ,specifications are same.

Secondly Do LCDs give 3D effect?
Pany looks wonderfool ,but less 3D effect than Sam.Dont know abt Sony.
 

spirovious

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well lcds from samsung and sony have surpassed plasma like PV8 which has a contrast measured at 1800:1 and the samsung last year plasma have a contrast of 916:1 while the lcd from samsung series 5,6 and sony W,x,v etc have a contrast as high as 3000.offcourse their dynamic contrast exceed this figure by a huge margin and lcd with ACTIVE LED backlight can surpass the native contrast figures too.
well pioneer plasma the very best of the lot only gives a native contrast of aprox 3620:1 not 15000:1 while the samsung series 8 gives a native contrast of 3000:1 while its dynamic contrast is stated at 70000:1.
but they have warned about the burn in issue in the panasonic plasma.

Why not talk abt Panasonic?
 

flared

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I have read that there are image retention problems in the present generation of Panasonic plasmas too but not burn in's which are permanent.
I have seen the present generation Panny plasma (PV) both in India and in US (PX) and haven't really seen any signs of image retention on the screen. I guess there are enough people who have experienced it though going by the AV Forums. This could also be result of how the TV was broken in for the first 100 hours or so.
The question is not who has the highest contrast ratio printed in their brochure but which gives the more natural color. Some like more Pop in their colors and they would prefer the LCD's especially the Sony's.
IMO there is no comparison of Pioneer Kuro's PQ with any other brands LCD or Plasma. It will hammer its competition hands down.

Khaadu:
I have read that LCD tv's are better for gaming and the Plasma's are better for SD viewing. If you are going to be playing games for long hours you need to check the technology which has less strain on your eyes. You might want to take the audition and decide on your own. Response time is an important factor that you need to take into account.

PS: We know you are gifting the TV to yourself ;) you are not fooling any of the HiFiers.. and neither is it going to fool your better half hehe!
 

adder

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Hi,

Can you tell me difference in Pany LX800 & 85?

When I saw 700 & 75 ,specifications are same.

Secondly Do LCDs give 3D effect?
Pany looks wonderfool ,but less 3D effect than Sam.Dont know abt Sony.
well the LX85 wont be launched in india ,instead the LX88 will be launched for asia.
well i am not sure about ur term 3d effect.

Why not talk abt Panasonic?
well the panasonic has a AIPS panel so the contrast levels of that technology is lagging behind SPVA panels from sony,samsung and even AMVA tech from AUO,ASV tech from sharp.
remember 3 years ago the main advantage for plasmas was contrast but people still prefered the sharp output of lcds,and now days lcds can take on most of the plasma in contrast levels,and new lcds from samsung such as series 8 pose a serious challenge to the pioneer KUROs.
what good is a tv which cannot show the fine details in dark shadow regions thats where the contrast helps.
 

flared

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Samsung series 8 has just been released so not much reviews yet. Sounds like a good buy though for those who have the cash.
We will have to wait and watch to see if its really going to match or outclass the pioneer.
 

adder

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I have read that there are image retention problems in the present generation of Panasonic plasmas too but not burn in's which are permanent.
I have seen the present generation Panny plasma (PV) both in India and in US (PX) and haven't really seen any signs of image retention on the screen. I guess there are enough people who have experienced it though going by the AV Forums. This could also be result of how the TV was broken in for the first 100 hours or so.
The question is not who has the highest contrast ratio printed in their brochure but which gives the more natural color. Some like more Pop in their colors and they would prefer the LCD's especially the Sony's.
IMO there is no comparison of Pioneer Kuro's PQ with any other brands LCD or Plasma. It will hammer its competition hands down.

Khaadu:
I have read that LCD tv's are better for gaming and the Plasma's are better for SD viewing. If you are going to be playing games for long hours you need to check the technology which has less strain on your eyes. You might want to take the audition and decide on your own. Response time is an important factor that you need to take into account.

PS: We know you are gifting the TV to yourself ;) you are not fooling any of the HiFiers.. and neither is it going to fool your better half hehe!

well plasmas do suffer from burn in which is mentioned in the review of the panasonic TH-42PZ81E which is a top of the line product from panasonic in asia its called the TH-42PY800H and its yet to be launched in india
Panasonic Viera TH-42PZ81E - DigitalVersus

to show u how advanced lcd tech is here is a comparision shot of pioneer Kuro and samsung series 8.

102_128_116.jpg

the above image seen from a PIONEER Plasma which is fed a SD signal.

36_300_116.jpg

the above image seen from a SAMSUNG series 8 LCD which is fed a SD signal.notice detail below the turban which u cannot see in the best of plasma.

16_239_116.jpg

image from a sony 40inch V series which is actualy been positioned against samsung series 5.

102_128_118.jpg

the above image from a PIONEER Plasma which is fed a 1080p FHD signal.

36_300_118.jpg

the above image from a SAMSUNG series 8 LCD which is fed a 1080p FHD signal notice detail below the turban which u cannot see in the best of
plasma.

16_239_118.jpg

image from a sony 40inch V series which is actualy been positioned against samsung series 5.
 
Last edited:

flared

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That seems to have been added as an afterthought for the review. More like a standard disclaimer. They have not even included it in the Minuses of the TV even.

What model of Kuro and Samsung Series 8 did they compare? A 720P vs 1080P?
The screenshots are bad. I can take better pics on my cell phone cam and would you select your TV based on that?

No offence but when somebody asks for a suggestion on whether to go for a LCD or a Plasma, its best to tell them the relative advantages and disadvantages of each technology rather than state things as facts. This would help him in auditioning both the technologies armed with information but allowing his eye to decide which gives the best quality.
 

adder

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That seems to have been added as an afterthought for the review. More like a standard disclaimer. They have not even included it in the Minuses of the TV even.

What model of Kuro and Samsung Series 8 did they compare? A 720P vs 1080P?
The screenshots are bad. I can take better pics on my cell phone cam and would you select your TV based on that?

No offence but when somebody asks for a suggestion on whether to go for a LCD or a Plasma, its best to tell them the relative advantages and disadvantages of each technology rather than state things as facts. This would help him in auditioning both the technologies armed with information but allowing his eye to decide which gives the best quality.

well comparision b/w pioneer KURO PDP508XD 50inch 1080p plasma and series 8 LE52866 52inch 1080p lcd.
and i u are talking about color differences in ur assumption of bad shots there are quite number of factors as to why it varies different backlight used,different image processing tech ,if u looked at the previous threads i already explained why there is a differnce in colors.
 

khaadu75

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Whoa ... Im having to go and try and understand each fancy word before undestanding a post but in short what Im getting is that the LCD seems to be a better buy keeping in mind the long hours of gaming :) !!

Well , it is for her but yeah I could be using it a bit more initially !! After the initial euphoria of a BIG screen I will probably only watch cricket on it ....

Also whats about the breaking in of a TV ... I mean I knew we had to run in the cars engine , run in a cricket bat but DAMN - didnt know one had to run in a TV as well for the first 100 hrs . What is one supposed to do in the first 100 hrs ??

I checked about prices and Im getting the Samsung 4 series for 50k and the 5 series for 58k ( LCD tv in Delhi ) , are these good prices ?? Im tilted towards the 4 series as I dont see much difference in the two except for the HD compatible feature in the 5 series and also a USB port ...

The 40 inch Samsung in 4 series has been offered at 55k .... whats a decent viewing distance for a 40 inch LCD panel ??

CHeers
 

psychotropic

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adder dude, that is complete bollocks....

the native contrast ratio of even the bare basic plasma screens like the PV8 and the Samsung 410 are in the region of 10,000:1 whereas their dynamic contrast ratios are in the region of 1,00,000 to 1 million:1. The native contrast ratios of the very best LCD panels do not exceed 3000:1 and dynamic contrast ratios do not exceed 70,000:1. LCD TVs have a lot of great things about them, but claiming contrast ratio as one of them is absolutely false!

The warning about image retention is there, because it's still an issue, albeit much less of an issue than before. The same way black levels and motion tracking are still an issue with LCDs, while much than before.


well lcds from samsung and sony have surpassed plasma like PV8 which has a contrast measured at 1800:1 and the samsung last year plasma have a contrast of 916:1 while the lcd from samsung series 5,6 and sony W,x,v etc have a contrast as high as 3000.offcourse their dynamic contrast exceed this figure by a huge margin and lcd with ACTIVE LED backlight can surpass the native contrast figures too.
well pioneer plasma the very best of the lot only gives a native contrast of aprox 3620:1 not 15000:1 while the samsung series 8 gives a native contrast of 3000:1 while its dynamic contrast is stated at 70000:1.
but they have warned about the burn in issue in the panasonic plasma.
 

flared

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On the contrary, I suggest that you try out both technologies to try and check what suits you best. First step is to go to a showroom which has both these TV's. Don't take a decisin before actually viewing the TV.

'Breaking in' is done for plasma tvs by toning down the picture settings, using a display mode that fills the screen, not displaying static images for a long time onscreen. These are precautionary measures for avoiding 'Burn ins'. Whether its actually required or not is up for discussion.

You could use this site to get an idea about pricing...
Compare Television: LCD TV, Flat Televisions, Plasma TV. Compare Price, Size & TV Features

Whoa ... Im having to go and try and understand each fancy word before undestanding a post but in short what Im getting is that the LCD seems to be a better buy keeping in mind the long hours of gaming :) !!

Well , it is for her but yeah I could be using it a bit more initially !! After the initial euphoria of a BIG screen I will probably only watch cricket on it ....

Also whats about the breaking in of a TV ... I mean I knew we had to run in the cars engine , run in a cricket bat but DAMN - didnt know one had to run in a TV as well for the first 100 hrs . What is one supposed to do in the first 100 hrs ??

I checked about prices and Im getting the Samsung 4 series for 50k and the 5 series for 58k ( LCD tv in Delhi ) , are these good prices ?? Im tilted towards the 4 series as I dont see much difference in the two except for the HD compatible feature in the 5 series and also a USB port ...

The 40 inch Samsung in 4 series has been offered at 55k .... whats a decent viewing distance for a 40 inch LCD panel ??

CHeers
 

adder

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adder dude, that is complete bollocks....

the native contrast ratio of even the bare basic plasma screens like the PV8 and the Samsung 410 are in the region of 10,000:1 whereas their dynamic contrast ratios are in the region of 1,00,000 to 1 million:1. The native contrast ratios of the very best LCD panels do not exceed 3000:1 and dynamic contrast ratios do not exceed 70,000:1. LCD TVs have a lot of great things about them, but claiming contrast ratio as one of them is absolutely false!

The warning about image retention is there, because it's still an issue, albeit much less of an issue than before. The same way black levels and motion tracking are still an issue with LCDs, while much than before.

well we all know that plasma and lcds also dont give the claimed static contrast ,10000:1 is a lot even for plasma standards,the pioneer kuro is measured at 3620:1 static contrast,the sony and samsung are anywhere b/w 1800:1 to about 3000:1.u can even ask chaos he would not agree with the plasma static contrast claims of 10000:1 for a samsung when the pioneer is measured at 3620:1.
 
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