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Creek Evo 2 + Epos M12i - Alternatives?

Luxman Amplifiers India

psychotropic

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Someone I know is considering purchasing this combination. Can anyone tell me what, if any, alternatives there are for this combination, in this price range. The CDP will be an Audio Analogue Paganini.

The Creek should cost ~45-50k and the Epos ~40-45k. So any ideas in this price range would be useful. Any idea how much the Arcam FMJ A18 costs? how does it compare to the Creek?
 

psychotropic

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Hey anm, no spelling mistake...it's a she. Audio-engr....the B&W 685 was considered, but in spite of its merits it didn't seem like a good value proposition at the price at which it is sold in India...it's ridiculously overpriced considering its UK price. for instance the Usher S520 which is 320 GBP is sold for 22k in India, while the B&W 685 which is 380 GBP is sold for 40k+, and i've read reviews and heard feedback that except for LFE the S520 is the superior speaker (ya ya I own it and I am biased, but this is what the reviews and a friend's opinion on first-hand comparison was).
 

soulforged

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The M12i are awesome speakers for their size...you may also want to try Totem Rainmaker or even the Arros (its surprising they hardly get a mention here in HFV)

I have heard creek only once paired with a AE Evo 3...they sounded crisp but didnt hear them long enuff to form an opinion...but just a thought here...dont u think the paganini deserves better?
 

psychotropic

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The Totem Rainmaker and Arro...any idea if they are available in India and where? and what the price may be like?

'crisp' should be a decent attribute to pair with the 'polished' sound of the M12i i am guessing?

And about the AA (which was purchased used) deserving better, I guess budget constraints are what they are and one has to make do with what one can afford.

The M12i are awesome speakers for their size...you may also want to try Totem Rainmaker or even the Arros (its surprising they hardly get a mention here in HFV)

I have heard creek only once paired with a AE Evo 3...they sounded crisp but didnt hear them long enuff to form an opinion...but just a thought here...dont u think the paganini deserves better?
 

psychotropic

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hey cranky thanks for the Polk recommendation, consideration that you recommend it so highly i will make sure that she auditions the Polk....any idea if it would go okay with the Creek Evo 2? or in the alternative can you think of an amp in the 45-50k range that would do justice to the polk?
 

soulforged

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I had heard the rainmaker, the model 1 and the arros with a hyubrid amp (Blue Circle...cant remember the model) in US...they both sounded very much in control....the Arro's LF was not very solid but the guy told me that with careful placement you could take advantage of the room structure. The rainmaker had a more cohesive sound for rock...they both sounded awesome with jazz...

I had spoken a couple of years to a guy in Mumbai who was a dealer for totem in India...he had said that rainmaker was around 45K or so...the site does not list any Indian distributors now :(

What is her choice of music anyways (imagine we are discussion equipment without knowing what would be played on it)...Someone did mention Viren's Lyrita amp and spkrs...they are excellent VFM products but not sure how will the Paganini take to them...
 

psychotropic

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the music is going to be a very broad spectrum from rock (everything from the doors to metallica) to pandit jasraj and abida and jazz.....so what she would need would be something of an "all-rounder."
 

thevortex

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I think the Epos is priced too high as well - should have been around 35-40K IIRC.

The B&W is a better speaker if you're looking for refinement, the Epos is more lively and fun. I think it'll boil down to a question of preferences. If you think the M12 is polished you'll find B&Ws dull. I found the Epos bright (not unpleasantly so) and exciting, the 685 was better for vocals and was a little smoother overall. The 685 MRP is ~45K, and you're kind of right about the value the Ushers offer, though the sound signature is very very different. There is no direct comparison as they appeal to different sensibilities...

At 45K the Polk LSi 9 also deserves a listen (I don't know how much it is though, maybe after discounts sub 50K), they are very good speakers once you get past the brand name and its legacy of loud and muddy speakers. The LSi9 are very, very good - much better than any of the options being considered and very good overall sound and value.

I have heard the B&W once. Not very seriously but still the opinion I had of that speaker was nowhere near the EPOS. Somehow I prefer the M12.2 to the newer M12i speakers.

For vocals and versatile stringed instruments such as the violin and the guitar I find the EPOS to be absolutely top notch. In fact it is an amazing all rounder for the money. But Cranky I agree with you that the Polk Lsi series has never really gotten its due. It is a superb speaker. Wonder why the two channel enthusiasts dont really lean that way here. I think I heard the Lsi7 though. Its tweeters are superb.

I will mention another thing, psychotropic. After living with the EPOS M series speaker for so long, there is one quality that I have appreciated no end. The simplicity of the crossover. In fact it is my uninformed and far from expert opinion that it is this one characteristic that lends itself to perform so well when paired with a low powered tube amp. And when I talk of low powered the amplifier is all of 2.5 Watts! And this coming from a person who has gotten used to the NAD C372 pouring out all of 150 Watts into the same speakers.

In fact I would strongly recommend your friend to not pass over the EPOS. However I must confess I have not heard the EPOS paired with the Creek amplifiers. At the same time I must mention that I am not a big believer in these industry-built pairings. For example it is often said that NAD is a wonderful amplifier for PSB speakers. But I have always felt that Marantz amplifiers sound better with the PSB. So, it is all personal.
 

jai1611

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the music is going to be a very broad spectrum from rock (everything from the doors to metallica) to pandit jasraj and abida and jazz.....so what she would need would be something of an "all-rounder."

Sounds similar to what my requirements were. I opted for a pair of Dynaudio Audience 52 bookshelves. I havent heard the Epos speakers though so cant do a compare and contrast. One word of warning with the Dynes - they are transparent and current hungry so need quality amplification.
 

thevortex

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Hmm.. I see people mentioning Lyrita amps. I have not heard Viren's speakers though.

I think these valve amps can work with all genres of music - that is if you value the definition of bass more than the sheer quantity. If you want to actually hear the ups and downs of your mid and lower bass, then the tube amp is going to be heavenly. On the other hand, if you want to be smothered by bass, then maybe it is not so good.

I am actually finding that fast, rocking numbers are actually sounding very good in my new setup. So much so that my classical music listening has come down in the last few days:).

Psychotropic - for rock music is your friend going to make do without a subwoofer? If so, would it not make sense to look for a floorstander? Or is she ready to supplement the bookshelves with nice stands and give them room to breathe and all that? What kind of room size are we talking of here? What kind of volume levels would be the norm? And would she be looking for sheer bass slam or definition with a little compromise on impact? I think answers to these questions can help people give further recommendations.
 

psychotropic

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Thanks all you guys for all your valuable suggestions. Jai, how much do the Dynaudio bookshelves go for?

Tubes are not being considered, so the Lyrita amps would probably not be an option. The room is fairly large, roughly about 20 * 15 with a very high, sloping ceiling.

The concern with floorstanders is that there is a bed in the room. But would, in this case, a pair of two-way floorstanders such as say the Usher V602 (with drivers all at the level of a bookshelf on stands, and a bass port much lower) be an option?

nice stands and room to breathe should be feasible, and i would imagine that a combination of a reasonable amount of bass slam as well as a good level of definition / tautness is what would be ideal, not one at the cost of the other (but can possibly do without the best possible in each area).


Psychotropic - for rock music is your friend going to make do without a subwoofer? If so, would it not make sense to look for a floorstander? Or is she ready to supplement the bookshelves with nice stands and give them room to breathe and all that? What kind of room size are we talking of here? What kind of volume levels would be the norm? And would she be looking for sheer bass slam or definition with a little compromise on impact? I think answers to these questions can help people give further recommendations.
 

soulforged

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The room size is good and the sloping roof is an added benefit IMHO...you could look at FS like MA BR2 or PSB...unless space is an issue, I wouldn't worry about the bed being in the room...

Think about pairing PSB and NAD...

Also think of an Advanced Acoustics amp with Triangle speakers (you can check them out at Nova Audio)...I had heard them while picking up my Project Debut III from them...sounded pretty good!
 

jai1611

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I paid around 42k for the Dynes. They're discontinued so available at attractive rates (when you can find them)
 

thevortex

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Thanks all you guys for all your valuable suggestions. Jai, how much do the Dynaudio bookshelves go for?

Tubes are not being considered, so the Lyrita amps would probably not be an option. The room is fairly large, roughly about 20 * 15 with a very high, sloping ceiling.

The concern with floorstanders is that there is a bed in the room. But would, in this case, a pair of two-way floorstanders such as say the Usher V602 (with drivers all at the level of a bookshelf on stands, and a bass port much lower) be an option?

nice stands and room to breathe should be feasible, and i would imagine that a combination of a reasonable amount of bass slam as well as a good level of definition / tautness is what would be ideal, not one at the cost of the other (but can possibly do without the best possible in each area).

Forgive me but the way I see it is everything here is a compromise. I dont think we can look at a system which brings together the best of slam with the best in definition at this budget. Maybe bigger spenders with much better systems than mine can chip in and say whether theirs is the ideal system in this regard.

With a rear ported floorstander, I dont think there should be any issue with a bed in the room. If you consider the cost of a good quality stand along with a quality bookshelf there would be quite a few good floorstanders to consider.

Personally speaking if one looks for detail and minute listening then bookshelves do have the edge. But if one is after more slam and more overall output, then floorstanders can be an option. There is no question as to which option is more musical - within the 1 Lakh rupee budget. The bookshelf speaker.

I have not heard the Usher V602, but when I spoke to Sridhar of ARN Systems and expressed to him my liking of the EPOS (this was before I picked up the EPOS) he suggested the V series as one option. However when I talked to him about detail retrieval and overall definition of notes more than sheer slam his recommendation was for the X series bookshelves. They are wonderful looking speakers too. Unfortunately I did not get to hear them. You might want to consider these and maybe speak to Sridhar too about this.

If at all vocals and delicate stringed instruments form a large part of the listening experience of your friend, then the EPOS would indeed beat most speakers I have heard.
 

psychotropic

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hey vortex, perhaps i didn't express myself clearly, but what I meant was that the requirement would be for a speaker that had a reasonable mix of slam and definition without having the best of both. What she would like to avoid is something that is super taut but has no slam, or has a lot of slam, but is loose.

This has been a really useful thread and some interesting options have been thrown up in the speakers department, but no one seems to have any suggestions for an amplifier? apart from the Lyrita tubes? There must be some SS amplifiers in the 45-50k range that can compete with the Creek? Arcam? Marantz?


Forgive me but the way I see it is everything here is a compromise. I dont think we can look at a system which brings together the
best of slam with the best in definition at this budget.
 

thevortex

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I think the Arcams are quite a bit costlier than 45 or 50K. One good bet would be the Music Hall amplifiers. I have heard those with the EPOS and I liked the combination very much. The amplifier from Music Hall had all of 50 watts but effortlessly drove the speakers. And the overall presentation was very musical and involving.

Also I believe that Marantz integrated amps will also sound very nice with an EPOS. You really have to try the sound out.

With the EPOS and with decent amplifiers I dont think you should be lacking in either bass slam or definition.
 
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