Culture of Stereo hifi in India....building up or fading away....

I went to Munich hi end show in 2018. Seeing the crowd there, I think hifi is not going to grow, as all the guys who were running behind speakers and amps were above 40 years old. On the other hand there were young crowd with the headphone section. I am in early 30s, and I must say I was the youngest one to be at demos for most of the rooms. It was almost like me sitting in a pentioner's meeting or so. On the other hand, almost every one I know at my age listen to the music from their phones, via spotify or some other service. Everyone wants to be surprised with new songs, or get the song they wanted right at the finger tip. Also looking at audio engineering job opportunities, its always about coding, machine learning, dsp for noise cancelling or so. Fancy features are the future, hifi would stay the same at the best or go down. Its sure, that it wont come up. If you say, company x or company y came up and they are doing well .. then also notice that company a, b , and c had gone bankrupt also this year.
 
The only way to make 2 channel music systems popular among the young today is to uncomplicate things. Remove exclusivity and snobbery from the hobby. Music is universal and so is its appeal. Everyone is born with an ability to listen and appreciate music. There is always a decent percentage of people whose brain is wired to appreciate music more than others. That is the market size. The biggest hurdle is to get young people to take the first step. If the first step is traditional hifi, it is going to be a struggle. If the market strives to make simple products that focus on fairly good fidelity with enough design thinking that makes it blend well into peoples life as well, there is a big market. That should serve as a first step for many young people.

Traditional hifi as we see it today will always be small and may even shrink unless more young people takes that first step. A friend was telling me about this product called sprout by ps audio. Small amplifier / dac combination at around 600 $. It even has a phono stage. Connect a laptop and a relatively high sensitivity speaker and you are good to go. Good, satisfying sound as well. We need more of these to attract the younger generation.
 
Considering this , would it be possible that 'our' ears are trained better to absorb/appreciate all the nuances in audio just because we had no video to distract us in the early days ? Like a blind man ( over time ) has better hearing capability than some one with vision ! .......possible ?
Music also sounds much better in a darkened room ! At least some types of music , Moody blues, Kitaro etc......

My nephew (in his mid 20s) digs my stereo system. We have sessions of listening to music on it and then discussing the same. He has an acute ear (better than me) in assessing the sound changes whenever I make some experimentation with my rig. His feedback is always valuable. He listens to quality music on headphones during his travel. Now, he is also highly social media savvy and consumes visual content as much as other youngsters (by the way both these behaviours are applicable to me as well). So I don’t see a correlation between higher visual stimulation and reduced ability to absorb/appreciate nuances in audio. Each one of us has the capacity and can develop the capability with our senses through interest and application.

I think the issue isn’t specific to audio/music. Someone above pointed out the same for books. It is more of reducing depth in people’s lives. In this age of variety and breadth, depth still pays off handsomely . And it can be cultivated, even in this age and doesn’t have to come at the cost of (useful) breadth. It’s just a mental barrier to break.
 
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I think an important point that needs to be realized is that serious 2 channel requires a fair amount of disposable income. It is beyond the reach of young audio fans. For many of them headphones and IEMs are the extent to which they can spend on their own coupled with their phones.

I am confident that as they get on in their careers and find some funds to spend on audio - they will come on board.



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I think an important point that needs to be realized is that serious 2 channel requires a fair amount of disposable income. It is beyond the reach of young audio fans. For many of them headphones and IEMs are the extent to which they can spend on their own coupled with their phones.

I am confident that as they get on in their careers and find some funds to spend on audio - they will come on board.



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If someone is passionate about audio, even with limited income someone can still stay in 2 channel world. Before I started working during my studies me and another fellow illegal made built small bookshelves out of local drivers and we were enjoying stereo when other guys were after drinks, touring with the pocket money given. To me and my like minded friend every rupee saved means another amp board, better tweeter and so on. When you don't have money u still can have interest which can keep you going.

What is an acceptable standard to spendfor a 2 channel is relative thing. To me, what matters is how much a stereo matter to you, how much time out of your free time from studies or work you spend on listening defines what is hifi to you. I had rich friends from college days who could afford a stereo back then too. For some ppl despite affordability sound never matters, for them even after hearing a state of the art system they would be not onvinced to bring it home. Or if they do, they would just bring it home only for the sake of one more luxury.
 
It is more of reducing depth in people’s lives
Dr Ian Malcolm (a fictional character in Michael Crichton’s book Jurassic Park) comments : “In the information society, nobody thinks. We expected to banish paper, but we actually banished thought.”. This book came out in 1990 but the idea is still relevant.
I feel if we stop giving so much importance to multitasking and achieving more, it can give the youth more time to think, pause, reflect and focus on specific areas. To appreciate art, this helps.
 
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If you find that car please count me in
Are you sure?

The only audio system I miss from the old days is the Nakamichi and Studer Revox cassette decks, and the reel-to-reel 15 IPS decks. There is nothing in today's world like that in the analog domain. As an audio system designer and user, I miss those today. Everything else is so much better today. The hifi we used to hear then was so pathetic in quality compared to what we get today. I remember my dad's HMV Star record player which would dig grooves into our precious records, its tracking force was so high. Ten years later, in 1982, the Sonodyne speakers made of particle board: vibrating like drums, only tolerable at low volumes. 3-way speakers with drivers all fitted on one enclosure, so that the woofer's rear wave impacted the midrange and vice versa. Floppy poly cone drivers, which cannot resolve 2% of the detail today's hard cones can. Cone tweeters -- will anyone here today prefer cone tweeters instead of even cheap $10 dome tweeters? Sonodyne amp, with 0.4% THD. We didn't know all this then. Today, that equipment would be really poor quality.

I don't mean to offend vintage audio lovers. Vintage audio, like vintage cars, is a totally bona fide hobby. But my vintage audio friends today work with vintage movie theatre equipment, not home audio of 50 years ago. Home audio in those days was usually crap. In terms of quality, give me the 21st century audio tech any day. A trivial PCB, the Modulus-86, costs $60. Add $50 of components and you have a power amp which gives you reliable triple-zero distortion to rival the Halcro DM38 amp. You can sit in your home in a remote corner of the world, order the parts, and literally build a "straight wire with gain" amp with this PCB for $100/channel. For signal processing, buy a NanoDigi for some $200. Do FIR DSP on it, where phase is separate from amplitude -- it almost feels like defying the laws of physics, the kind of things you can do with FIR. Thanks to FIR DSP, for the first time in the history of humankind, we are able to hear what two-channel audio really sounds like, I mean really, because we can now do near-perfect room correction. And we can do all this for pocket change costs, sitting and tinkering in our living rooms.

Would we really want to live, in the audio universe, without laptops, software, and the Internet? The speaker simulation, circuit simulation we can do on our cheap laptops today were not possible even in the largest govt and defence labs 50 years ago on their mainframes. This directly impacts our ability to design top quality audio systems rapidly. People like me can design better speakers today than all but the top dozen or so speaker designers of 50 years ago. This is not because we are any smarter. It is because we have incredibly powerful software which runs on our laptops, and we have the Internet to learn from.

You want to live without HD audio, which captures the quality of 15 IPS analog studio master tapes and with less noise and distortion than was possible at any price 50 years ago?

Yes, people today don't listen to music much. But I do. You do. Yes, we are a minority. So what? The elite in every civilisation have been a minority. And the older generations of every era have said that the youngsters are not serious, they don't care, they are going to the dogs. Do you remember how our parents used to say that rock music was horrible and evil? Their parents used to tell them that classical music was the only music worth listening to.

So when you hop on that time travel car to go back in time, please don't bother reserving a seat for me. I'm extremely grateful that I live in this era, where modern tech like the Internet have given me online friends like all of you. I want to live my life looking towards the future. It only gets better.
 
If someone is passionate about audio, even with limited income someone can still stay in 2 channel world.

Can't agree more. Passion for hi-fi/audio is the urge that drives those in hi-fi. As another FM @Nikhil said, disposable income also comes in play but it for those who are already initiated into that passion. Set up may come early or late in careers but not without that drive.
Again, music has become much more popular after the advent of mp3 players, smart phones etc only because it is easy to carry, affordable and maintenance free. Hi-fi cannot boast these qualities. As FM @sandeepss pointed out, multitasking nature of young generation is an impediment to appreciated listening. Even when not multitasking, they prefer mobile gaming than to listening music. Unless hi-fi is recognized as tool for soul-soothing, may be later in their lives, hifi cannot become the preferred way for those without passion for it.
 
If someone is passionate about audio, even with limited income someone can still stay in 2 channel world. Before I started working during my studies me and another fellow illegal made built small bookshelves out of local drivers and we were enjoying stereo when other guys were after drinks, touring with the pocket money given. To me and my like minded friend every rupee saved means another amp board, better tweeter and so on. When you don't have money u still can have interest which can keep you going.

What is an acceptable standard to spendfor a 2 channel is relative thing. To me, what matters is how much a stereo matter to you, how much time out of your free time from studies or work you spend on listening defines what is hifi to you. I had rich friends from college days who could afford a stereo back then too. For some ppl despite affordability sound never matters, for them even after hearing a state of the art system they would be not onvinced to bring it home. Or if they do, they would just bring it home only for the sake of one more luxury.


People who are into hifi will always be there. But this group is quite small. If you want growth in this group, you need to attract the younger generation by introducing interesting products in terms of cost and design. Once they get hooked, a percentage of the demographic will start looking at serious hi fi products. Right now the entry point is not very interesting. It is boring boxes and a middle aged male hobby as far as the younger crowd is concerned. Things need to change.

 
As @square_wave puts it, if the HiFi truly moves towards demystification and miniaturization, it may bring many into the fold.

A decent HiFi rig costs as much as down payment for a car.
A great HiFi rig costs as much as down payment for a house.
So many folks with interest in music, go the head-fi route. It is versatile, mobile and personal.

All in ones with features at a price that doesn't break the bank are slowing showing up.
They will gain acceptance as the market matures.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
People who are into hifi will always be there. But this group is quite small. If you want growth in this group, you need to attract the younger generation by introducing interesting products in terms of cost and design. Once they get hooked, a percentage of the demographic will start looking at serious hi fi products. Right now the entry point is not very interesting. It is boring boxes and a middle aged male hobby as far as the younger crowd is concerned. Things need to change.
There are many other activities competing for a teen's or Gen Y time and energy. Social instant gratification is one key factor. it's cool to post on social media and get attention.Traditional Hifi is not that cool.
Infact Hifi is competing with mobile ph,social,headphones and other activities.
Will a DIY audio activity in Gen Y make them come over.Possibly there is I did it cool factor !
 
I really hope so Nikhil. But in that case, they should at least show interest in their dad's equipment. My son for that matter, doesn't even look into my amplifier and speakers. He is in his mid teens. He is more into you tube and headphones. And the music he hears....don't even bother to ask.
Same with my wife, and my sister. Both never even once showed interest in listening to my speakers or headphones. Same with many of my friends who has much more disposable income than me. Everyone appreciates it's good, but they don't these things in their life.

For me, sports is such a thing. I never understood why ppl are mad for watching sports, following sports people and so on... Same goes with pets to me as well, even if I can afford, I don't want any animals inside my house. No offense to animal lovers... ;)
 
The flipside of disposable income is, people simply buy some modern convenient smart speakers. Even I like the look and sound of Bose Home 500, but for 40K, I can awesomely assemble a budget stereo that will sound great. But the new generation will want to use their disposable income on convenient gadgets (atleast most of them). Only some niche electronics interested folks might explore.
 
Big problem in India is lack of availability at a reasonable price.

I'm an expat from UK and over there you have so many dealers to get good equipment from. You also have big outlets like Richer Sounds where you can walk in, and pick-up decent system at a good value price.

For me in India its very frustrating no dealers in regional areas. Ordinary people never get a chance hear good Music equipment. Here in Goa where I live you end up people blaring badly recorded songs on their cheap Chinese copies of JBL bluetooth speakers on the once tranquil beaches and fankly they just sound atrocious.

Stupidly overpriced products dont help either, high import duties and exorbitant dealer margins put Hi-Fi out of reach of ordinary folk.
 
Disposable income helps; but not in the true sense of the term.
Most folks use the "disposable income" for
- good gastronomic experience (food rules all; family friendly)
- vacations and sightseeing (memories; family friendly)
- upmarket TV (family requirement)
- home decor (essential for the health of family life; most of married boys will attest to it)
- curated "personal hobbies" such as photography, golf and of course HiFi (very little family involvement)

Let us admit it. HiFi is intimidating, mystified and simply a pain (in a place where the sun don't shine).
Why? It takes patience, research, hard work and failures to get it right first/second/third/... time, ain't it?
Some of our equipment signatures are like store catalogs, really!!
So there is nothing wrong in people seeking simple, convenient solutions for music or TV sound.

I feel this is where companies like Bose got it right, 20+ years ago. Address mainstream/mass needs.
The traditional HiFi OEMs and new entrants are slowly getting their act together.
In India, there is an additional challenge of high prices generally for audio equipment and no audition support.

Among the known brands that are attempting to do serious inroads into modern and easy to use HiFi:
- Edifier
- Harman/JBL
- Google
- Amazon
- Apple
- AudioEngine
- Denon
- KEF
- Genelac
- B&W
- Dynaudio
and many more ....

Let's hope products from the above companies gain real world traction and momentum.
It is a brave new world.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
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At my home 80% of available free time is consumed in watching soap operas on TV. I feel nice that I invested in a good 4k uhd. Daily at 9:55 pm my daughter approaches me and ask if I want to listen to music. At that time I would be reading a book or news paper. When I say yes, she says ok and turn on my tubes, preamp and Blueray player. At 10pm all go to bed and I shall listen till 11 PM. That's the only slot available for me and I don't complain. Weekends usually goes in RND and discovery. Not even once my daughter ask me for a particular song or album to be played on my stereo though she listens to many in her headphones.
 
IMO, listening through a good DAP or even a phone with good hardware and a decent pair of IEM's would run circles around most of the "seperate's" and "hi-fi" equipment out there purely in terms of SQ, musicality and involvement. As far as the equipment of yesteryears is concerned, I agree with tcpip - let's remove those rose tinted glasses and back off on the nostalgia and we will be able to see most of them for the turds they were.
Let's not knock Gen Y - they get 95% of the SQ for < 1% the cost and ~0.1% of the space though that MAY not have been their objective. Who's smart here? We're a pompous bunch, that's all. :)

Edit: And they don't even need to obsess about power cords, IC's and speaker placement equations either.
:p
 
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At my home 80% of available free time is consumed in watching soap operas on TV. I feel nice that I invested in a good 4k uhd. Daily at 9:55 pm my daughter approaches me and ask if I want to listen to music. At that time I would be reading a book or news paper. When I say yes, she says ok and turn on my tubes, preamp and Blueray player. At 10pm all go to bed and I shall listen till 11 PM. That's the only slot available for me and I don't complain. Weekends usually goes in RND and discovery. Not even once my daughter ask me for a particular song or album to be played on my stereo though she listens to many in her headphones.
So similar to my home, except that my son doesn't ask me whether I want to listen to music.

Not even once does my son want to play any of his favourite songs on my system. Needless to say, I can't understand why. And I used to believe that exposure is key to attracting someone to good things -- here, exposure hasn't worked at all. There are also so many pieces both he and I like, but he doesn't even seem interested to listen to those pieces on the system. Dire Straits (do you know how "The Immigrant Song" is now famous thanks to one of the movies my son loves -- "Thor Ragnarok"?), Ed Sheeran, ...
 
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