DAC - To buy or to not buy(Confused)

[magma]

There is exactly 4 feet distance between the speakers and 1.4 feet from the back.

yes and im saying to increase the 4 to 6 feet or over if possible

@santhanol
Ahhh
what i actaully meant to say initailly is that if you really want to have a better sounding system focus more on the room,placements,room acousitcs, they will pay higher divendents ( when compared to a totally compromised room)
The other point i was trying to make is that i was encouraging abhi to do the above first , it is only then he will be able to appreciate a DAC and make out smaller nuances ( as said before this is purely my opinion)

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

yes and im saying to increase the 4 to 6 feet or over if possible

@santhanol
Ahhh
what i actaully meant to say initailly is that if you really want to have a better sounding system focus more on the room,placements,room acousitcs, they will pay higher divendents ( when compared to a totally compromised room)
The other point i was trying to make is that i was encouraging abhi to do the above first , it is only then he will be able to appreciate a DAC and make out smaller nuances ( as said before this is purely my opinion)

I don't think so that I can place my speakers more than 4 feet between them. No space

 

[sonosphere]

even in the inards of the Benchmark can be done in 100$ forget the others

but that is beside the point

i have tried a few sub 300$ dacs in 2 entry level setups including your own dac( in non treated compromised rooms)
im yet to see a large improvemnt ( and in some cases any )
yes im probably deaf
actaully now i do feel sorry for myslef
.....

Hi Magma,
If the amp or the speaker (or both) are "average" reproducers of music, then no matter what good source you put first in chain, the end result coming thru speakers will only sound average... simply because the good details coming from a good source will get lost in the innards of average components.

Are you trying to say that you found average quality amp+spkr combo deliver average quality music with USD 300 DACs, but the same combo sounded twice as good with a USD 1000 DAC? If yes, pls let me know the brands/models involved (i.e amp+spkr combo & DAC) for my general info

 

[rana_kirti]

A DAC can't turn a frog into a prince. What it can do, assuming the design is capable, is to decode and play back more accurately the kind of detail that is frequently lost in today's highly condensed audio circuit board.

Let me explain that bit in more detail:
Many budget CD and media players are designed for compactness. So the copper tracks are very much condensed and run over each other with little regards for sound quality. All kind of noise gets into the audio signal, and a myriad of tricks are used to keep them under control. Unfortunately those controls are more often than not a bunch of filter networks. They can strip the audio signal of the little nuances that make up an emotional recording. Sound stage, depth, etc. suddenly sound flat.

A good DAC is supposed to be well laid out and unwanted noise taken care of without any or too much filtering.
In my TC-7520 based range I have gone as far as to have the audio and USB circuitry separated from the digital circuit. This is to keep the various noises under control without heavy handed filtering.

To get a very clear idea of how much signal is lost in the analogue stage of a DAC I came up with the passive mod on my own DACs. I have seen similar ideas on other DACs as well. One uses an audio transformer. By going passive, you are getting the pure decoded signal from the DAC chip. It's amazing how much more info is in that signal. Until you have heard the audio output directly from a DAC chip, you can only imagine how much info is in a digital track.

It's that kind of detail in the music that the likes of me are trying to extract. Even on a relatively inexpensive system the difference between a heavily filtered and an unfiltered or lightly filtered DAC is clearly audible.

It's even possible to modify most CD and DVD players to produce an unfiltered output. I did it on many of my owns CD players, with amazing results. The cheapest and best was a Denon 1740.

abhi_jollyguy,

Stan says...

"A DAC can't turn a frog into a prince"

Most likely he's saying that a DAC will make absolutely no improvement to the sound quality of a 128/192/320 kpbs mp3 song...!

Is that correct Stan ? Or can a DAC make an improvement to that ?

Then further dicusses about internal designing of cd players and improvements etc.

You mentioned that you'd be playing most of your content from your wdtv live player. Now its important for you to first decide what % of source you mostly have ?

Do you have mostly lossy mp3s or more of flac or cds....? If you have mostly lossy mp3s. Then as per Stan's statement "A DAC can't turn a frog into a prince" you might not see any improvement with a DAC.

However if you have mostly flac & cds which inherently have more information and detail in them, then there should be a improvement...!

I would invite Stan to come forward and clarify this for you and all at the forum since i really believe that no one is more qualified to really give you a real and honest answer about this...!!

In your case if mostly your source is lossy 128/192/320 kpbs then will a DAC make a noticeable difference for you....?

Over to Stan.....

 

[santhosh]

I would invite Stan to come forward and clarify this for you and all at the forum since i really believe that no one is more qualified to really give you a real and honest answer about this...!!

In your case if mostly your source is lossy 128/192/320 kpbs then will a DAC make a noticeable difference for you....?

Over to Stan.....

But alas, Stan has been banned!!

 

[santhosh]

@magma, watch your typos mate.

what i actaully meant to say initailly is that if you really want to have a better sounding system focus more on the room,placements,room acousitcs, they will pay higher divendents ( when compared to a totally compromised room)
......................that i was encouraging abhi to do the above first , it is only then he will be able to appreciate a DAC and make out smaller nuances

Well Magma, not to argue ..... but clearly Abhi knows the weakest link (his source) in his chain given his room limitations which he has little flexibility over. He has also chosen his speakers well based on his room size. He wants to know what improvement (if any) it would bring if he adds a DAC between his WDTV/DVD player and his amp. While it is good to encourage members to think of other tweaks for SQ improvement, we still need to address the need for a good source which the OP will need sooner not later. Just my two cents.

 

[madbullram]

To an extent, I agree with Magma here. Infact, the few placements changes I made definitely brought better SQ than my DAC. But that doesn't mean the DAC is redundant. I cant live without my DM now. These are two parallel things. One should always see what best can be done for placement and acoustics with the given constraints of their place. One thing that really made an improvement was to cover my LCD TV with 3 blankets whenever I hear music. It improved the sound stage, instrument placement and the bass.

Buying a DAC will never be a bad decision and it does make lot of practical sense. I played even a 128 kbps song via my DAC but the difference was good, it does improve the 128 kbps but there is no comparison with a 320 kbps MP3. It does remove little bit of harshness from the 128 kbps ones

 

[rana_kirti]

To an extent, I agree with Magma here. Infact, the few placements changes I made definitely brought better SQ than my DAC. But that doesn't mean the DAC is redundant. I cant live without my DM now. These are two parallel things. One should always see what best can be done for placement and acoustics with the given constraints of their place. One thing that really made an improvement was to cover my LCD TV with 3 blankets whenever I hear music. It improved the sound stage, instrument placement and the bass.

Buying a DAC will never be a bad decision and it does make lot of practical sense. I played even a 128 kbps song via my DAC but the difference was good, it does improve the 128 kbps but there is no comparison with a 320 kbps MP3. It does remove little bit of harshness from the 128 kbps ones

abhi,

as ram says in his findings he has observed that the a DAC has given noticeable improvements even to a 128 kbps song then in that case i suggest you should whole heartedly go in for a DAC and then also try to give it the best quality source material that you can. But i guess even if you mostly have lossy mp3's even then it should be a worthwhile improvement to you as per ram's findings.

Now you already stated that you can't do much with the positioning of your speakers so adding a DAC should be your next best step.

After this you have to figure out how much you have to spend on a DAC. I think it should be in correspondence to the amount you spend on the speakers and amp. Although we have read in posts above that a $ 300 DAC could sound as good as $ 1000 DAC. I know it's confusing you....

According to me you should be looking at the following DACs. Mind you that i have personally not heard any one of them and only recommending them from the reviews i have read online and in discussions in other forums.....

1. Nuforce uDAC 2
2. Beresford Caiman
3. Music Fidelity V-DAC

Go for it boy...!!! hyeah:

 

[techgadgets4379]

abhi,

as ram says in his findings he has observed that the a DAC has given noticeable improvements even to a 128 kbps song then in that case i suggest you should whole heartedly go in for a DAC and then also try to give it the best quality source material that you can. But i guess even if you mostly have lossy mp3's even then it should be a worthwhile improvement to you as per ram's findings.

Now you already stated that you can't do much with the positioning of your speakers so adding a DAC should be your next best step.

After this you have to figure out how much you have to spend on a DAC. I think it should be in correspondence to the amount you spend on the speakers and amp. Although we have read in posts above that a $ 300 DAC could sound as good as $ 1000 DAC. I know it confusing you....

According to me you should be looking at the following DACs. Mind you that i have personally not heard any one of them and only recommending them from the reviews i have read online and in discussions in other forums.....

1. Nuforce uDAC 2
2. Beresford Caiman
3. Music Fidelity V-DAC

Go for it boy...!!! hyeah:

Abhi,

After reading abt 7 pages, i can assure you that mp3/flac files sounds better with adding DAC to your setup. I am using the same set up as yours but with different brands of amp and speaker. I added Caiman to the setup and believe me you can clearly make out the difference. I was in the same situation as you earlier this year and took a plunge and went for the DAC and it has made my listening sessions more pleasant, its worth the investment.
My chain is WDTV>optical> caiman optical in>amp> speakers.

 

[magma]

edit

i had written a long post but i realised it was doing no good to the OP and was just de railing the thread

so to get back to helping the OP

my last post here on the thread is just the advice unleash me gave earlier

If you can mamge to get hold of ANY dac ( for trial)
get it
try it out. hear the differnce
decide yourself

signing off regards
Ali

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It's a funny language.

If I could just go back to square one: everybody who has a digital source producing sound from speakers has already got a DAC. Possibly even several, coupled with different sources.

So the question is, not should one buy a DAC, but would an external, free-standing unit be better than the one(s) one already has in the CD/DVD player, HT processor, PC soundcard, etc?

All other things being equal (and they are not, because it is old kit), the sound from my CD-player almost certainly would be improved by an external DAC, whereas the sound from my PC sound card might not. The CD-player is a low-end Marantz; the PC card is studio-quality RME. Or, looking at another way, it would take much more expenditure to improve on the RME card than it would to improve on the CD player.

The question is, then... how good is the DAC(s) you have already? If, like my CD player, it is part of a piece of entry-level kit, then surely it can be improved on. If not, either the external unit might be a waste of money, or else would have to be substantially more expensive to give a result.

 

[sonosphere]

But alas, Stan has been banned!!

I've missed out on how /why this ban happened. Can anybody direct me to the post that explains this?
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

Why this ban happened? Can any mod tell us?

 

[santhosh]

These are two parallel things.

Buying a DAC will never be a bad decision and it does make lot of practical sense.

Exactly my point MBR. Inspite of doing all placements and tweaks, the OP will still need a good source to get value out of his otherwise good chain.

edit
i had written a long post but i realised it was doing no good to the OP and was just de railing the thread

@magma: I read your post before you edited it.....you had again mis-spelt my handle as santhanol (that inspite of my telling you to watch your typos). You had also written to me about the importance of room treatment, speaker placement etc. I can assure you that your thoughts on room treatment, speaker placement etc are correct..... especially since I have invested equivalent amount of money(if not more) on room treatment as I have spent on my AV equipment. Yes, I have also tried speaker placement and other tweaks and know the benefits. But I will not advice a member looking for a DAC to first go correct his room and then decide on a DAC. Come on mate, both are important. Like MBR said, they are parallel things and there is no overlap or redundancy whatsoever.

so to get back to helping the OP

Right, let us do that rather than confuse him further.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

What to do or what to not:annoyed::sos:

 

[Kittu]

Buy the DAC and use it if you dont like the improvement you can sell to me @ 50% discount.... what say mate ?

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

Buy the DAC and use it if you dont like the improvement you can sell to me @ 50% discount.... what say mate ?

LOL If I won't find any improvements so selling to u will result in loss of my 50% amount:lol:

 

[Kittu]

LOL If I won't find any improvements so selling to u will result in loss of my 50% amount:lol:

now you are seeing the glass half empty mate , see from otherside half full or realisticly fill rest of it with single malt and say CHEERS :beer: .

 

[hydra]

@abhi_jollyguy, I use a Caiman DAC between my WD TV(Gen1) and my active speakers and I must say FLACs played on the WDTV sound much better to me. My usage: WDTV > TOSLINK cable > Caiman > Audioengine A2 (or headphone via the Caiman's headphone Amp).

I use Audioengine A2s, and even in small and not-so-powerful speakers such as these, I could feel a substantial improvement in FLACs played over the WDTV. Before using the DAC, the music sounded loud and quite harsh.

Before using the Caiman, my usage path was WDTV > HDMI Cable > TV > 2-ch RCA cable (via TV's audio-out) > Audioengine A2.

BTW, I must admit that I've never tried the analogue RCA outs of the WDTV to feed my speakers as the WDTV lets me use only either the analogue-outs or the RCA-out at a time. Plugging in the analogue-outs to the speakers cut the video feed (via HDMI) to the TV and I didn't want that.

I personally think that using an external DAC before your amp will definitely improve the quality of music played by the WDTV. You may not see the same amount of improvement from the CD Player though. Like everybody has said, you should decide only after you test your setup with a loaner DAC.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

now you are seeing the glass half empty mate , see from otherside half full or realisticly fill rest of it with single malt and say CHEERS :beer: .

before filling anything in the rest of the glass, I would like to confirm that the glass I am gonna have will fulfill my expectations or not.:lol: