decision time.. got AVR.. need more juice from speakers

[mpw]

Dear all,

Am enjoying this forum looking at interesting dialogs and advices and some really tech stuff. I have posted a few times before and this is probably decision time for me ( diwali time ). So please chip in with your valuable inputs.

Venkatcr, Cranky & the gurus-- am aware the ears are the best judge but do give your pointed opinions with your views.

I have Harman Kardon AVR 255 and subwoofer JBL CSS 10. My fronts are monitors JBL Control Ones and so are the rears. My center is JBL Control NOW. Somehow i think when i bought the system for about 92K, i feel i need more juice when i listen to music only ( Rock, some pop, indipop & instrumentals ).

Constraints : Budget 20K can stretch to 30K but will have to live with the system for the next many years..

Options :-

a. Norge + Mission MV8 ( prevoiusly M34i) ( about 28k )
b. Only PSB B1 Alpha / PSB Image B15 as fronts ( about 15K / 21k )
c. Only PSB Image B25 ( about 28k )
d. Def Tech Procinema 100 fronts ( about 25K )
e. KEF IQ 30 ( about 27K )
f. Or if i am to really stretch then.. the Jamo C405 or PSB Image Towers ( about 30K )

Question 2 : The Norge is a 2 channel stereo.. which means the subwoofer wont come into use at all for music. Then dont you think floorstanders are the only option beacuse they have one more driver.

Even PSB recommends the Image B25 monitor to be used with a subwoofer.

My room size is 20 ft by 20 ft

Question 3 : I heard the Mission M34i with a Yamaha amp at Vijay sales.. after i put an original CD.. then the sound improved a lot. Any comments on wherher they would sound even better with HK AVR 255 ( 60 W RMS @ 8 ohms )

Question 4 : Can i select the 2 fronts 6 ohms but keep my center and rears at 8 ohms.. how would this affect the movies ?

Looking to close the decision in about a week after i have considered responses to this thread..

Regards,
mpw

 

[jaudere]

Question 2 : The Norge is a 2 channel stereo.. which means the subwoofer wont come into use at all for music. Then dont you think floorstanders are the only option beacuse they have one more driver.

>>> Norge 1000 and 2000 have pre out for connecting sub a


Question 3 : I heard the Mission M34i with a Yamaha amp at Vijay sales.. after i put an original CD.. then the sound improved a lot. Any comments on wherher they would sound even better with HK AVR 255 ( 60 W RMS @ 8 ohms )
>>> should be good.best way is to carry your AVR and check. the speaker says that it can be driven by amp with power 35W-200W. M34i cost was Rs18000 when i checked(6 months back). In fact i think HK 255 would do more justice to music than Norge( Norge may score if you are using a good CDP with good DAC)

Question 4 : Can i select the 2 fronts 6 ohms but keep my center and rears at 8 ohms.. how would this affect the movies ?
Yes. you can do that. you will have to adjust speaker SPL levels for speakers separately. if HK 255 has auto adjustment like Odessey, that would be of help.

I hope this helps.

 

[marsilians]

Your subject is a bit misleading than than the feedback you are looking for. The simplest and safest way to get more juice out of your speakers is to add an solid state amp. 2/3/5 channels depending on yoru budget. With good pairing of the amp with AVR and speakers, you will be much better off than upgrading to a particular brand of speakers.


With your budget you are looking at entry level from Norge and such or used equipment. i do not have much experience with Norge - just listened to it for a short period of time. Others will chime in as there is a decent following on this forum.

Question 2 : The Norge is a 2 channel stereo.. which means the subwoofer wont come into use at all for music. Then dont you think floorstanders are the only option beacuse they have one more driver.

Even PSB recommends the Image B25 monitor to be used with a subwoofer.

Why cant you leave the sub connected to the AVR? Witha 2 channel amp you just hook up the L/R to the amp and leave the rest with the AVR, which will also provide additional power to these.

Question 3 : I heard the Mission M34i with a Yamaha amp at Vijay sales.. after i put an original CD.. then the sound improved a lot. Any comments on wherher they would sound even better with HK AVR 255 ( 60 W RMS @ 8 ohms )

What improvements did you notice? What did you play before you played the CD? Otherwise it is difficult to answer this question.

Question 4 : Can i select the 2 fronts 6 ohms but keep my center and rears at 8 ohms.. how would this affect the movies ?

If the speakers are 6 ohm, you can leave your AVR as such. There will not be a problem. Further there may not be an ability to switch individual channels impedence. Its all or nothing unless this has been implemented in the newer ones at the price range you are looking at.

 

[mpw]

Thank you Jaudere and Marsillians.

The M34i - the guy at Vijay sales plugged in his flash drive and the poor speakers were croaking literally. When i put my CD in the player then they started sounding a whole lot better.

BTW, my source is a Pioneer DV 410.

The AVR 255 has an automatic calibration system.

In my current system, when i play 2.1 channel music, i find much of the sound coming from the sub rather than the fronts. when i switch off the sub and listen to only the fronts ( 2 channel ) the output is not satisfactory. Thats why i am contemplating changing the fronts.

Regarding the connections - Marsillians - you mean to say i hook up my DVDP to the Norge amp and the Norge inturn is hooked up to the AVR ? Is this possible ? Mr Bajaj of Norge provided an alternative when he said there is an additional switch that i could use to swithc between the 2 channel norge amp and ther AVR whenever i want to listen to music or movies. In that case i would have to re connect the sub to the Norge or the AVR everytime i want to listen to music or movies ?. am i right ?

Seriously looking to the Mission MV8 becauise i have already spent so much and i can strech by only about 30K to make a once and final change and live with the sytem i got.

Thanks for chipping in and do keep your inouts coming..

Am not too specific about choosing BS or FS as i have space in my hall.

mpw

 

[skumar]

In my current system, when i play 2.1 channel music, i find much of the sound coming from the sub rather than the fronts. when i switch off the sub and listen to only the fronts ( 2 channel ) the output is not satisfactory. Thats why i am contemplating changing the fronts.

You are playing 2.0 music via 2.1 speaker/sub combo and the AVR may be routing all the low frequencies to the sub. Rather than playing it in 2.1 mode and switching of the sub, see if your AVR has a "Pure direct" or similar mode where in all frequencies are routed to only the front 2.0 speakers. If you have already tried this, may be you could replace the front JBLs with BSs of your choice (PSB Image B25 etc.) on a trial basis and see if it improves the stereo quality. If it works, you can eliminate the additional amp from the equation.

 

[marsilians]

It doesn't like like you have setup your system well if most sound is coming from sub. I would look into that first. Also, search on the forums to see how to connect an AVR and amp together.

 

[skumar]

Regarding the connections - Marsillians - you mean to say i hook up my DVDP to the Norge amp and the Norge inturn is hooked up to the AVR ? Is this possible ? Mr Bajaj of Norge provided an alternative when he said there is an additional switch that i could use to swithc between the 2 channel norge amp and ther AVR whenever i want to listen to music or movies. In that case i would have to re connect the sub to the Norge or the AVR everytime i want to listen to music or movies ?. am i right ?

DVDP->Coax/Optical/HDMI->AVR->Switch->Front 2.0

DVDP->RCA(L+R)->Amp->Switch->Front 2.0
If your sub has hi-level speaker inputs, you can optionally connect the sub in between the Switch and the Front 2.0

There is a thread by Venkat on speaker switch, go thru it for more details.

 

[jaudere]

Seriously looking to the Mission MV8 becauise i have already spent so much and i can strech by only about 30K to make a once and final change and live with the sytem i got.



1)try changing crossover frequency of your AVR sub out. try to keep it 60Hz and reduce sub/LFE SPL level . this may give a lot better result with your present set up.

2)I know you are running on a tight budget but i think rs Rs 1500 is not a big ask for an experiment.

Get philips 8" full range drivers 25W RMS (Rs 600/- a pair). put them on a folded open baffle with the help of a carpenter(around rs 1000) and hook it to your AVR fronts. keep baffle about 3 feet wide(16" front and 10 " each on side) No crossovers involved. i spent a lot of money(about Rs 8000, still quite less than entry level brandedspeakers) before reaching best combination.

i love this set up of mine to the extent that i consider myself lucky that i didn't go for m34i. that was my choice when i was waiting to gather some money.
the only problem with open baffles is that they do not go low . so you need help from a sub. wider the baffle, better the low frequency response of full range driver.

Mr. Viren(Lyrita audio) is now coming up with such a speaker with Fostex full range drivers on open baffle , getting help from a woofer at lower end.

 

[mpw]

Jaudere,

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like i will probably plump in for the MV8 ( after pairing it with my AVR 255 in the showroom ). The only thing is thet Mission speakers could do with some better finish and may be a slightly more jacked up price to compensate for htat. But then i suppose they would be open compatition to Vardus or the 9 series from Wharfedale ( both owned by the same comnpany )

Which amp / AVR have you got ?

This Saturday i will hear MV8 + AVR 255. I really do not want to go back to JBL as i think their speakers are very costly.

Last night, the PSB website mentions thay they are launching the new Image series speakers which means that the current lot may go for a discount.

PS : I travel a lot and therefore do not have the time to experiment though did tinker with quite a few speakers with my best buddy when i was in the 11th / 12th standard. I remember thinking about starting a speaker company back then.. may be the Paul Barton of India...:lol:

Regards,
mpw