Do people still listen to vinyl?

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Mohan

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Do people still listen to vinyl? The last time I owned a turntable was in the 80's (A Cosmic DD Turntable) and I was happy to get rid of!

Wondering how vinyl would sound now compared to digital music?
 

The Soundsmiths

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In all the mayhem and rush of the digital world, we have forgotten the soothing notes of analog.

With this statement we have opened a HUGE pandora's box of pros and cons of Vinyl (analog) vs CD (digital).

The reason for the original shift from LP to cassette and then to CD was purely 'ease of use' - very little attention was paid (by the general public) to what was being lost because of this convenience. Its akin to the bespoke suit losing out to off-the-rack - what we got was convenience and price, but what we lost out was soothing smoothness that only pure analog devices can deliver.

We recommend you take on a LP player to a similarly priced CD player any day. I would like to see where this discussion leads.

Do look on the net for this oft discussed topic. You can also look at 'tubes vs transistors'
 

diehardmonte

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Hi Mohan/Soundsmiths,

Vinyl....if u say that i m an audiophile n i sleep eat n drink music.. with ur CDs! vinyls will always remain the ultimate in sound quality. why do u think are these tube amps or Turn Tables the best today? In a layman's language, to get the best out of anything, u shuld always try retrieve it just the way u made it. digital to digital and analog to analog. are tablas or guitars or pianos any digital? ofcourse not...then why have a digital player or an amp for that? Go out of india n u'll still find vnyls and that too almost double the price of a cd. The level of satisfaction u get outta vinyl is definitely 200 times.

Why we phased it out from india then? because we nvr cared to keep ourselves n our surroundings clean. evrybdy is so selfish here tht they went ahead with the construction mania and let the dust prevail all our life. Its the dust that kills us and whatever we have our lives relied on. And ofcourse the people here are as lazy as ever and always look upon music as a passe...why to have those big ugly looking vinys when i can have a 3.5' disk with 500 songs on it? And ofcourse the tube, people always thought that once the tube is gone, the whole system is gone....

I have some 200 vinyls at home which has spent some memorable part of their life spinning on a 36 yr old philips TT. The player is still alive and so are the vinyls. they still spin at 33.33, 45, & 78 rpms and sound fantastic. We occasionally take them out from my bed (because i sleep eat and drink music) at family gatherings when everyone remembers the good old days and specially when i use to shut myslf off as a baby boy listening to neil diamond or a george mccraig LP evry night on a murphy tube transistor! Now, we do take them out with a lot of enthu, but eventually half of the time's spent cleaning them. If i manage to clean them well, and if i manage to get all my cds converted to vinyl, i can forget about the DACs and the transport or evn the CDs forever for good.

I will buy a good tube amp, a good TT and some really good bookshelves for my DAD. I still want him to play those songs the way he use to, and bring our innocent lives back again.

This is what is happening to CDs now, enter MP3s. Somebody has to ban this for the sake of our passion and the reason why we all are here expressing our views and the billion like us doing the same somewhere on some blog. Imagine the pain, the time and the money these people spend to ensure that we all die a beautiful death listening to their amazing compositions on amazing pieces of machineries. If this goes on, just like the vinly is dead in India, music will also die forever.

Period!!!
 
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Jeevan

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Mohan
I had a cosmic tt too somewhere around the late 70s/early 80s. I think it was a Japanese made tt with cosmic branding... It was well made and I had a Shure cartridge. Soon after I got the Akai deck and then the tt was forgotton!
Fortunately I have rediscovered vinyl and am slowly but surely collecting as many LPs that I can find.
I personally find the sound much more natural and pleasing and the whole experience is like a Japanese tea ceremony compared to CDs which is a cafe coffee day equivalent!
 

Jeevan

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Those of you who live in Bangalore and would like to experience a truly wonderful vinyl experience, suggest call Absolute sounds (Prithvi) for an audition.
Jeeves
 

Absolute Phase

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Those of you who live in Bangalore and would like to experience a truly wonderful vinyl experience, suggest call Absolute sounds (Prithvi) for an audition.
Jeeves

Hi! Jeevs,
Thanks for the post. By the way the company is Absolute Phase. Anyone interested in hearing one of the worlds best LP Player , The Linn Sondek LP12 can PM or call me for a demo.
Rgds

Prithvi
 
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jeevan-- my answer with 2000 LP's is an emphatic YES
I CURRENTLY have 2 turntables -- a thorens td 160 with shure m97ed cartridge & a projectvdebut 2 with factory fitted orthofon cartridge & a NAD phono pre amp pp 1.
I have duplicated mANY RECORDS BY BUYING THE CD'S LATER BUT FIND THE ANALOGUE SOUND OF VINYL FAR SOOTHING THAN CD SOUND. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THIS. THE IRRITANT IS THE STATIC ELECTRICITY & WARPING WHICH CAN BE MINIMIZED WITH AN ANTI STATIC GUN & WASHING THE LP WITH SOAP/WATER. I WELCOME YOU TO A DEMO AT MY HOUWE TO PROVE THE POINT. I CAN BE CONTACTED ON MUMBAI MOBILE 98200 35734
 

afg

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Hi

I can definitely vouch for the sound of vinyl. I have a NAD 533 turntable with a low end goldring elektra cartridge and a Rega Planet 2000 CD player and run them through my valve amp. I have albums like Pink Floyd, Alan Parson, Dave Grusin and old hindi film songs on both Vinly and CD and have compared songs on both the sources. Most of the time, the vinyl sounds better than the CD (specially the old hindi songs which sound surprisingly very nice on vinyl). Soundstage is better, detail is better, more musical and the sound is warm. Check out the Dark Side of the Moon vinyl (EMI records 30th edition). Great sonics compared to the CD. On some occassions however the CD sounds better.

I think it all boils down to mastering. Well mastered CDs played on a good CD player can match vinyl in my opinion. Particularly CDs mastered post 2000. SACD supposedly sounds as good as vinyl if not better though it is a dying medium unfortunately.

Further, setting a record player to get the optimum sound requires practice/patience as there are a number of parameters one needs to get right. It is not plug and play. I don't think everybody wants or has the inclination to do that. Also, it makes sense getting a player if one has a lot of records stashed up somewhere. It is difficult to get vinyl now in India though there are tons of good second hand stuff available abroad.

I think CD quality is getting better by the day. But that won't lure me away from vinyl.

Convenience is all that matters now. CDs will soon give way to mp3 and ipods in some years at least in the commercial market. So probably we will have a discussion at some point in time on how good CDs used to sound.
 

srnath

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At best, digital recording is merely a mathematical interpretation of sound, it is not the sound itself. In a vinyl record the actual sound waves generated by a performance are physically imprinted on the vinyl surface and can be extracted very easily with a stylus. On a CD, sound is converted into numbers language and must be extracted by equipment that understands what the numerical patterns actually mean. On top of that, the digital information must then be converted back into an analog format so we can hear it.

This is isn't to say that digital recording isn't a desirable method for storing music. However, there are definite historical and technical implications when using either analog or digital audio recording technology.

Future Historical Implications of Vinyl And CD

From a historical standpoint, the vinyl recording can withstand time better than current digital audio recording. If a future civilization has a different technology base than digital, CDs will be useless. Trying to figure out how to access the information on a CD just from examining the disc itself would be a formidable task. Unless there is access to either a working CD player or one that may be in disrepair, but can be back-engineered, the CD could end up as just a strange curiosity by a future civilization.

On the other hand, the information on a vinyl recording can still be accessed mechanically with just a little trial and error. Any civilization that has a concept of sound reproduction, and minimal mechanical skills, would be able to construct a stylus and playback device to extract the sound waves imprinted in a record groove. Even if unable to get the playback speed correct, or extract optimum sound quality, they would still be able to listen to the sound and figure out what the sounds represent.
New Isn't Necessarily Better
The digital formats, such as the CD, are capable of reproducing more dynamic range and lower noise levels than analog records, but contrary to popular belief, the CD does not necessarily insure better sound. This is particularly an issue with MP3, which uses extreme compression techniques to store CD or analog source material into a very small digital storage space, such as a flash memory card, mini-hard drive, or on a CDR/RW disc. CDR/RWs can hold many more hours of music in the MP3 format than standard CD files. Although this is practical in terms of music storage and portability, sound quality isn't up to par with standard CD, and certainly not up to par with HDCD, DVD-Audio, and SACD (Super Audio CD).
Also, even though vinyl records can incur scratches and pops, the CD is not indestructible and has been known to skip, repeat, and deteriorate.
As a result of this awareness, many, from generation X and Y, to audiophile journalists, the appreciation of good vinyl recordings is making its way back into the mainstream and with it, a new demand for Turntables to play them on.
 
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srnath

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At best, digital recording is merely a mathematical interpretation of sound, it is not the sound itself. In a vinyl record the actual sound waves generated by a performance are physically imprinted on the vinyl surface and can be extracted very easily with a stylus. On a CD, sound is converted into numbers language and must be extracted by equipment that understands what the numerical patterns actually mean. On top of that, the digital information must then be converted back into an analog format so we can hear it.

This is isn't to say that digital recording isn't a desirable method for storing music. However, there are definite historical and technical implications when using either analog or digital audio recording technology.

Future Historical Implications of Vinyl And CD

From a historical standpoint, the vinyl recording can withstand time better than current digital audio recording. If a future civilization has a different technology base than digital, CDs will be useless. Trying to figure out how to access the information on a CD just from examining the disc itself would be a formidable task. Unless there is access to either a working CD player or one that may be in disrepair, but can be back-engineered, the CD could end up as just a strange curiosity by a future civilization.

On the other hand, the information on a vinyl recording can still be accessed mechanically with just a little trial and error. Any civilization that has a concept of sound reproduction, and minimal mechanical skills, would be able to construct a stylus and playback device to extract the sound waves imprinted in a record groove. Even if unable to get the playback speed correct, or extract optimum sound quality, they would still be able to listen to the sound and figure out what the sounds represent.
New Isn't Necessarily Better
The digital formats, such as the CD, are capable of reproducing more dynamic range and lower noise levels than analog records, but contrary to popular belief, the CD does not necessarily insure better sound. This is particularly an issue with MP3, which uses extreme compression techniques to store CD or analog source material into a very small digital storage space, such as a flash memory card, mini-hard drive, or on a CDR/RW disc. CDR/RWs can hold many more hours of music in the MP3 format than standard CD files. Although this is practical in terms of music storage and portability, sound quality isn't up to par with standard CD, and certainly not up to par with HDCD, DVD-Audio, and SACD (Super Audio CD).
Also, even though vinyl records can incur scratches and pops, the CD is not indestructible and has been known to skip, repeat, and deteriorate.
As a result of this awareness, many, from generation X and Y, to audiophile journalists, the appreciation of good vinyl recordings is making its way back into the mainstream and with it, a new demand for Turntables to play them on.
 

srnath

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At best, digital recording is merely a mathematical interpretation of sound, it is not the sound itself. In a vinyl record the actual sound waves generated by a performance are physically imprinted on the vinyl surface and can be extracted very easily with a stylus. On a CD, sound is converted into numbers language and must be extracted by equipment that understands what the numerical patterns actually mean. On top of that, the digital information must then be converted back into an analog format so we can hear it.

This is isn't to say that digital recording isn't a desirable method for storing music. However, there are definite historical and technical implications when using either analog or digital audio recording technology.

Future Historical Implications of Vinyl And CD

From a historical standpoint, the vinyl recording can withstand time better than current digital audio recording. If a future civilization has a different technology base than digital, CDs will be useless. Trying to figure out how to access the information on a CD just from examining the disc itself would be a formidable task. Unless there is access to either a working CD player or one that may be in disrepair, but can be back-engineered, the CD could end up as just a strange curiosity by a future civilization.

On the other hand, the information on a vinyl recording can still be accessed mechanically with just a little trial and error. Any civilization that has a concept of sound reproduction, and minimal mechanical skills, would be able to construct a stylus and playback device to extract the sound waves imprinted in a record groove. Even if unable to get the playback speed correct, or extract optimum sound quality, they would still be able to listen to the sound and figure out what the sounds represent.
New Isn't Necessarily Better
The digital formats, such as the CD, are capable of reproducing more dynamic range and lower noise levels than analog records, but contrary to popular belief, the CD does not necessarily insure better sound. This is particularly an issue with MP3, which uses extreme compression techniques to store CD or analog source material into a very small digital storage space, such as a flash memory card, mini-hard drive, or on a CDR/RW disc. CDR/RWs can hold many more hours of music in the MP3 format than standard CD files. Although this is practical in terms of music storage and portability, sound quality isn't up to par with standard CD, and certainly not up to par with HDCD, DVD-Audio, and SACD (Super Audio CD).
Also, even though vinyl records can incur scratches and pops, the CD is not indestructible and has been known to skip, repeat, and deteriorate.
As a result of this awareness, many, from generation X and Y, to audiophile journalists, the appreciation of good vinyl recordings is making its way back into the mainstream and with it, a new demand for Turntables to play them on.
 
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Buba

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At best, digital recording is merely a mathematical interpretation of sound,................................., a new demand for Turntables to play them on.

srnathji, it seems that the text from your abouve post is copied from a website , word to word.

Turntable Keep On Spinnin' - Proud Vinyl Keep On Singin' - Don't Throwaway Your Old Vinyl Records or Turntable!

Don't you think it is ethical to provide a lproper link of source from where you copy pasted the text?

Please take care next time.
 

soundofmusic

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Anyway srnath , thanks for the article.

In Our country its difficult to source a record , this makes people think twice before buying a TT.

Mohan.
 

srnath

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hi,
i do agree that its an article taken from a website.well how many have time to go through innumerable websites providing info on various topics.well i should have included source.thanks anyway
nath
 

smedhavi

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Nice thread!
I agree to most of the stuff you folks have said.
Just one input:
Why we phased it out from india then? because we nvr cared to keep ourselves n our surroundings clean. evrybdy is so selfish here tht they went ahead with the construction mania and let the dust prevail all our life.
I don't think that is the real reason :)
If I remember correctly, the only record pressing factory we had in India got burnt down in the eighties. The compact audio cassette had already arrived, and it was too costly for music companies to set up a new record pressing factory. More so because they were already struggling to survive against the pirated cassette industry of the eighties selling cheap cassettes through the neighborhood pan shops and small time operators. After that, no one ever bothered. Our bad luck :(

It is high time one of the rich folks on this forum setup a factory, and get a license from music companies to release their albums on vinyl. We would be more than happy queuing in for the newly pressed LPs, rather than hunting for them in the garbage dumps in chor baazars.

Thanks,
Sharad
 

reddream

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I have maybe 50 LPs up for sale, got it from my dad. Abba, BoneyM, osibisa, MJ, etc.

I am from Bangalore, what can I expect for each.

I am still reading and learning about sound reproduction, etc but I feel that digital is the way forward. We can do so much of manipulations these days with digital that the best thing is to have an end to end digital flow ( from close to the instrument to recording to editing, etc).

You say LPs tube have that different clipping etc, but digital can reproduce 95% of the original on all most all digital setups, more people can hear the right sound.

We are in the world of compression, why ? I say its better. Why ? because we are just throwing out what the mass 95% of the people cant hear or see. Why do you want to waste storage on something which wont be appreciated.

I rather have a 150+ tata sky channel than 15 analog channels.
Maybe a few will appreciate that analog does not have compression artifacts in demanding video portions, but varity of channels that is the best. When you feel touched watching brave heart or forest gump or tare zameen par, is it because of the 5% extra detail you got, I dont think so.

So compression is helping to throw out something and get something better.
There is ease of using mp3, seamless connectivity, plays for hours, okay what do you miss, again some details (but again we are getting closer with loseless compression). These details 99% of the time when you are driving, dancing, singing, cooking, along with the music you are not going to notice. Unless you are in a critical listening mood, and you keep adjusting all the controls and finally when it is done you switch off the system. As a hobby it might be entertaining ( I love doing it), but on a mass scale its sad.

Why did the old systems have tone controls, eqs, cause you needed to really tweak it to get the proper sound. What is proper sound again ? very debatable.

But todays digital world, plug the amp, plug the speakers, put the cd, that is it. You have active eqs and thx and what not to make sure you get the best sound.

These automatic solution works because you are in the digital domain, we can store data and send it at time shifted way ( creates more imaging, debatable but possible) without reducing the original info ( bits is bits ).

I heard this on TV, ARR for some songs used the internet to get recordings from singers across the world. Wow, he is using technology, when the creators itself are in digital domain, how can manufacturing LPs now improve the sound.

The ac is so chilling at my desk and I want to run out, that I am writing this shivering, please bare with the English, I cant read again at the cost of not expressing fully my brain is switching off

Okay, to conclude, I feel there should be a balance to enjoy music / video, the content matters more, you also need good reproduction, 5.1 channel, good imaging, nice dynamic range, full range of frequency, comfy chair, quiet ambience.

So, even after that if you want perfection, great you fall in the minority, and we call them people with defective ear/eyes and ignore them.

So, who wants my LPs.
 

rsud

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Some of us can only listen to Vinyl when listening to music seriously !!

While CD playback has gotten quite good a top end turntable will outdo any cd player. In fact past about $400 USA mark a good (not technics!) TT and analogue vinyl will always outdo a similarly priced CD player. With a good single malt scotch in hand why would I listen to second best! Why would you!
 

rsud

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I have maybe 50 LPs up for sale, got it from my dad. Abba, BoneyM, osibisa, MJ, etc.

I am from Bangalore, what can I expect for each.

I am still reading and learning about sound reproduction, etc but I feel that digital is the way forward. We can do so much of manipulations these days with digital that the best thing is to have an end to end digital flow ( from close to the instrument to recording to editing, etc).

You say LPs tube have that different clipping etc, but digital can reproduce 95% of the original on all most all digital setups, more people can hear the right sound.

We are in the world of compression, why ? I say its better. Why ? because we are just throwing out what the mass 95% of the people cant hear or see. Why do you want to waste storage on something which wont be appreciated.

I rather have a 150+ tata sky channel than 15 analog channels.
Maybe a few will appreciate that analog does not have compression artifacts in demanding video portions, but varity of channels that is the best. When you feel touched watching brave heart or forest gump or tare zameen par, is it because of the 5% extra detail you got, I dont think so.

So compression is helping to throw out something and get something better.
There is ease of using mp3, seamless connectivity, plays for hours, okay what do you miss, again some details (but again we are getting closer with loseless compression). These details 99% of the time when you are driving, dancing, singing, cooking, along with the music you are not going to notice. Unless you are in a critical listening mood, and you keep adjusting all the controls and finally when it is done you switch off the system. As a hobby it might be entertaining ( I love doing it), but on a mass scale its sad.

Why did the old systems have tone controls, eqs, cause you needed to really tweak it to get the proper sound. What is proper sound again ? very debatable.

But todays digital world, plug the amp, plug the speakers, put the cd, that is it. You have active eqs and thx and what not to make sure you get the best sound.

These automatic solution works because you are in the digital domain, we can store data and send it at time shifted way ( creates more imaging, debatable but possible) without reducing the original info ( bits is bits ).

I heard this on TV, ARR for some songs used the internet to get recordings from singers across the world. Wow, he is using technology, when the creators itself are in digital domain, how can manufacturing LPs now improve the sound.

The ac is so chilling at my desk and I want to run out, that I am writing this shivering, please bare with the English, I cant read again at the cost of not expressing fully my brain is switching off

Okay, to conclude, I feel there should be a balance to enjoy music / video, the content matters more, you also need good reproduction, 5.1 channel, good imaging, nice dynamic range, full range of frequency, comfy chair, quiet ambience.

So, even after that if you want perfection, great you fall in the minority, and we call them people with defective ear/eyes and ignore them.

So, who wants my LPs.

You must spend some time listening to music on different types of systems. You say there is no standard but there is. The standard is the sound of a live unamplified instrument in an acoustic space. You can tell a live saxophone from a stereo system when you hear it. How close does the system get to sounding like the live instrument. This is the measure (and a standard established by the Absolute Sound Magazine). It is a rare high-end system that can even fool anyone. This shows how far stereo still has to go.
If you spend time listening you will find that what equations tell you and what most people tell you doesn't hold true. There can be vast differences in the perceivable quality of reproduction between systems and between methods of storing music. And you will be amazed at what you can hear once you actually listen critically to a systems sound quality against the standard. Is this the most important thing in the world? No. But to casually throw it away because the masses can't appreciate it? Hardly. Shall we do the same for food, literature, wine, etc? And then you intellectually place yourself as part of the herd (the masses).... Sorry, not my way of thinking.
 
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