Do people still listen to vinyl?

I was wanting to say the same, but was wondering if the TurntablePhiles will beat me up.

Cheers

IMHO, you can still get good sound from a rig like that, but you really do owe it to yourself to hear a good TT. When you switch back to digital, you'd think someone sucked the emotion out of the music. I am not saying that one needs just vinyl or just digital but you really need to listen to vinyl in all it's glory...
 
I was wanting to say the same, but was wondering if the TurntablePhiles will beat me up.

Cheers

i think turntablephiles would just smile indulgently knowing that you're missing out on something special that they've discovered :D no offense meant by the following question or intent to convert you to vinyl :) just curious to know - have you heard a good vinyl setup and still prefered the computer based system? do give details of both.
 
Gobble, what would a decent turntable rig cost (table, cartridge, phono preamp?) ? I am looking for a decent one too, but within a budget.

anm,

a decent turntable new would cost you bout 12k i think for the denon though i'd recommend the project debut III at bout 19-20k. it comes with a cartridge which you can upgrade later as funds allow. 4k for the grado red or something like that. bout 5k for a phono amp from viren (lyrita audio) or some other choice if you prefer and you're up and running for bout 25k! if you don't intend to make vinyl your main system or go deep into it, this setup will serve you very well for many many years. recurring costs would include cleaning fluid which you can make and stylus cleaner which involves a paint brush and cleaning fluid which you can make again. these would be pretty negligible on a monthly basis.

regards
 
IMHO, you can still get good sound from a rig like that, but you really do owe it to yourself to hear a good TT. When you switch back to digital, you'd think someone sucked the emotion out of the music. I am not saying that one needs just vinyl or just digital but you really need to listen to vinyl in all it's glory...

Grubyhalo, my first entry in HiFi was a Dual TT with an Ortofon Concorde cartridge. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I must have played Pink Floyd's Wall some 500 times on the system till my mother would hum and say the words !! She is 85 now and she yet remembers The Wall !!

I have over a 1000 tapes with me that I have enjoyed on a Sony Walkman many times.

What I am going to say now is completely different.

I am not denying / refuting / supporting any way of playing music. I just want to mention what I had read Robert Harley say is his book, 'The Complete Guide to High-End Audio'. Though I don't remember the exact words, what he says goes something like this. In the course of auditioning 100s of systems, Robert, when he played any music, would not listen to the song at all, but look for issues - noise, imaging, transparency, emotion and some issues that he himself had created. Slowly he realised he had stopped enjoying music altogether. He then had to work hard on himself to enjoy music, and close his mind to all the issues. In essence, he created two Roberts - one who would enjoy music played anyway even in the car, and another who would look at systems critically.

I have also learned to do that. When I am in a car, when I am listening to Worldspace on my cheap Sony, or using a iPOD, I enjoy the music, sing along, tap my feet, do a jig, and many times scream my head off with Kishore Kumar or Chris De Burg. My screaming, of course, will be completely 'besur'.

You are saying about emotion. I have written about Amin Sayani's 'Geetmala Ki Chhaon Me'. All CD based and completely remastered. I also have some of the same songs copied from the tape directly with all the scratch noises. Even if I tell myself that the version with the scratch noises is the original, the Geetmala CD provides the same emotion albeit cleanly. I am sure you will say some frequencies have been cut off, but frankly I switched between these two many times, and I cannot make out any difference.

As part of auditioning the Oppo 983, I have ripped many songs into wave files for comparison with the original CD. Strangely, I felt the wave files had more openness and clarity. This is on the same equipment with the 983 playing both the CD and the wave file.

Let us not chase imaginary 'prefect' systems and spend time and money being unhappy. We are not people with infinite amount of money in our pockets. That does not mean we cannot enjoy music.

One of the advantages of going with technology is that research will be done and economies of scale will be available continuously. Would any other technology bring you the quality of DAC and sound card that Asus has brought out for Rs.8000?

I have read a lot about the so called 'resurgence' of vinyl, particularly in the US. Best Buy is allocating all of EIGHT racks and keeping 100 records in each of their shop !! I have read soothsayers sound the deathknell of CDs and digital music. But it is Steve Jobs who is keeping a 100 million people happy and keeping his coffers full. Companies such as Krell, Arcam, NAD, and others who swore against non-analog systems are quietly introducing digital players and systems based upon digital media.

Given a choice between using a TT - worrying about getting the records first, keeping the records clean, washing them, worrying about the weight and counter weights, the geometry of the system - against all this - take a PC based song that can be played and replayed a 1000 times with the same accuracy and clarity - and one that provides 90 to 95 percent of the TT's emotion - this is the decision a person has to take. Which one should he opt for? The more important question - which should be our main source of music?

Just as you said I must listen to a TT, I would say listen to a good digital based system. And let us not fool ourselves. We are not the professional audiophile who would be so particular about this note, that tone, the feelings in the singers' heart etc. Even if we are, like Robert Harley, let us start enjoying the music.

Cheers
 
Let me put it this way. My primary listening rig is a HD-based system played through a DAC/Headphone amp combo on my HD650s. The handful of times I listened to vinyl, it let me enjoy the music more. The same music that I have in digital format(s) as well and have listened to innumerable no. of times (Including and especially The Wall and DSOTM). Like you mentioned, it was difficult for me to think about the sound and got pulled into the music while listening to vinyl. To me, if I can get myself a decent analog rig, the inconveniences would be totally worth it. Having said that, I don't think I'd ever give away my digital gear after setting up a vinyl rig, that would be stupid. I can also understand how the convenience and outright 'fidelity' of digital music would be totally worth to others to not bother with analog at all. At the end of the day I am not saying analog will kill digital or vice-versa or that vinyl is better than CDs. Given a chance I'd rather listen to vinyl than CDs as they sound better to me...
 
Grubyhalo, my first entry in HiFi was a Dual TT with an Ortofon Concorde cartridge. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I must have played Pink Floyd's Wall some 500 times on the system till my mother would hum and say the words !! She is 85 now and she yet remembers The Wall !!

Could you achieve the same with your 'digital' setup?

------
I am not sure I understand your comparisons. A vinyl record copied on tape is 'tape' not vinyl, a vinyl record ripped as WAV is as 44.1/16 PCM as a CD. So what you are comparing is not vinyl and CD, but tapes and digital rips with a CD.
------

...and one that provides 90 to 95 percent of the TT's emotion - this is the decision a person has to take.

Well summarized! Though it is difficult to exactly quantify the difference.

Regards,
Sharad
 
Is technics better than the pro-ject debut? How much does this technics cost in India? And compare with rega P3 24 in terms of cost/ performance?

regards
 
Is technics better than the pro-ject debut? How much does this technics cost in India? And compare with rega P3 24 in terms of cost/ performance?

regards

I've not heard the technics or the pro-ject debut TTs. But I would surmise that the debut will be a much better sounding TT for the following reasons:

1) The debut is belt drive which causes the least amount of motor vibration to trasfer to the record platter (and then into your record and then to your cartridge). The technics is direct drive so motor vibrations go directly to the platter. Making it worse is that the technics is quartz lock so the motor is constantly readjusting its speed which means even more motor vibration making its way to the platter and in the end into the cartridge.

2) The Debut has better arm geometry which will reduce tracking error as the arm/cartridge sweeps across the record.

3) The spindle (platter) bearing in the Debut will be machined far better than having a motor as the spindle. This is also a source of noise/vibration. This is an extension of the 1st point. Direct drive is not good for TTs when sound quality is the ultimate factor for many reasons.

The technics is more of an industrial design suited for heavy duty use and not ultimate sound quality. The technics is a "tank" or a "dump truck" built to take a pounding as DJs slap records on and do DJ stuff. For home use where you will be using it carefully you would want more of a refined "sports car".

I have heard the Rega p1 and p2. They can provide excellent sound as entry level TTs in the high-end. The P3 which I haven't heard is much more serious piece of TT gear (from what I read about it) and I think will give you excellent results.
 
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Could you achieve the same with your 'digital' setup?

Yes, I can.

I am not sure I understand your comparisons. A vinyl record copied on tape is 'tape' not vinyl, a vinyl record ripped as WAV is as 44.1/16 PCM as a CD. So what you are comparing is not vinyl and CD, but tapes and digital rips with a CD.

I was talking about the transfer of music from the master tapes that the recording companies store their data in. Whether to a Vinyl, to a CD, or to a cassette, the data is always transferred from the master tapes where the originals are stored.

Cheers
 
i think turntablephiles would just smile indulgently knowing that you're missing out on something special that they've discovered :D no offense meant by the following question or intent to convert you to vinyl :) just curious to know - have you heard a good vinyl setup and still prefered the computer based system? do give details of both.

Stevie, as I have mentioned above, I started my foray into HiFi with a TT based system. The TT and cartridge were top of their class then, the amp and speakers were DIY. But this was a long time ago.

In the recent past I have been listening to TT in expensive set ups as part of auditoning or visiting a dealer. I am planning to get a TT myself by end of this year, if I have some money left. I am yet holding the records I bought over 20 years ago, and I working on how I can collect some more.

The way I am going will be to use a PC based system as the primary source of music - all WAV or FLAC files ripped myself from CDs. The CDs will become a backup and will be used to rip again if I lose a file or a file gets corrputed. I will also be using a TT, and a cassette drive. You can say I am covering all bases. They will all be played by the same two channel amp and speaker set.

But my point is different. I am crazy enough to do all that. My reason for raising these points is to ensure peole who use only a CD or a PC for source do not feel dissatisfied or as if they are losing something.

I reckon my using the TT will be once a week or so and that the PC will pipe the music 24/7.

As I mentioned before, I am not against TT or anything. The PC based system is extremely convenient, and if done properly comes very close.

Cheers
 
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But my point is different. I am crazy enough to do all that. My reason for raising these points is to enusre peole who use only a CD or a PC for source do not feel dissatisfied or as if they are losing something.
Cheers

Well.. They are missing something and I would say this fact should not be swept under the rug.

Is it important enough to them to put up with the hassle of a TT and vinyl?
This is the question that only each individual can answer for themselves.

I have a TT for serious listening. But I listen to CDs and an iPod touch for casual or in car listening.
 
I have read a lot about the so called 'resurgence' of vinyl, particularly in the US. Best Buy is allocating all of EIGHT racks and keeping 100 records in each of their shop !! I have read soothsayers sound the deathknell of CDs and digital music. But it is Steve Jobs who is keeping a 100 million people happy and keeping his coffers full. Companies such as Krell, Arcam, NAD, and others who swore against non-analog systems are quietly introducing digital players and systems based upon digital media.

Cheers

Hey, eight racks in a mass market store for a primitive dead technology is pretty darn fantastic!!

I haven't heard that anyone says vinyl will retake the world!
That seems impossible and I wouldn't want it to happen. Current vinyl is made by small companies that generally pay close attention to making a quality product (a few just seem to want to go ADA with the signal so they can correct and re-equalize and this just wrecks it like the current Doors box set). And dont want to go back to the 70s and 80s when vinyl was made by big label giants with little care for quality.

Right now vinyl lovers have it pretty good but new vinyl is a bit expensive.
 
Well I have reasonably good digital setup - an EMU card connected to a decently good Audiozone non oversampling DAC. My TT is a very basic technics SL-B2. I paid 1/10th for the vinyl setup compared to my digital setup and I'd expect it to perform similarly. However I must say the vinyl actually outdoes the digital system in naturalness. In everything else, the digital setup is better though.

I was very very surprised by the sound out of this super basic turntable and its motivation enough to get a serious turntable setup.
 
hey ROC, how does this EMU compare to the Asus Xonars being talked about these days? Or with m-audio transit usb?
 
welcome to the vinyl world reignofchaos! if you're going in for a serious tt later on a year or so do skip the technics ok well listen to the technics higher models but also audition project and the like. sushil at nova audio is a good bet for a second hand tt. but you need to keep calling him you never know when he'll have something!
 
not a technics hater its decent. but not brilliant as promoted here by some guys ESPECIALLY with the logic given or rather lack of logic! i have freely admitted i have not even heard a technics on other posts but my opinion comes from a knowledge of the basics of turntable design or rather knowing what's required for good playback. and a technics is more designed to allow cart backscratching and stuff like that rather than allowing the signal to be reproduced perfectly, resonances taken care of etc... its an extremely popular DJ turntable for a very good reason!!! even a small point like the speed marks on the side. ever wonder why they're on a slanted platter and not a vertical platter? cos DJ's standing up can see them! there are tons of design pointers for those who care to look. for those who recommed technics just cos millions of DJs use them and its 'popular'... :mad:
 
...but my opinion comes from a knowledge of the basics of turntable design or rather knowing what's required for good playback. ...

So you are suggesting one should not buy a Technics because of your knowledge of a good design? I would risk my money on something that is used en masse than your knowledge - nothing against you personally though.
 
So you are suggesting one should not buy a Technics because of your knowledge of a good design? I would risk my money on something that is used en masse than your knowledge - nothing against you personally though.

marsilian you have completely missed the point of the post!

i am suggesting that whoever recommends a technics do so with some facts to back up that recommendation not a blind 'everybody uses it so it must be good'.

my knowledge of a good design is nothing extraordinary or prophetic. there are certain basic design requirements and you consider these against a turntable's build when thinking of buying it. if you read up on platter constructions, vibration control, cart tonearm resonances that dictate which cart is optomized in which tonearm, tonearm design and the types of turntables (belt, idler, direct drive) you'd have the very same knowledge! it's standard existing knowledge! :rolleyes:

i have specifically stated that i have not heard technics so those reading can judge my opinion accordingly. i have stated why i have arrived at my opinion of the technics based on what i've read of its design and have compared those design parameters to other good tt design features and have come to my opinion. and that's all. am not recommending against it or suggesting anyone follow my advice! in fact if you read my previous post, i did suggest to reignofchaos to listen to technics higher end models but go listen to other models as well and then decide. so how in the world are you jumping to the conclusion that i am not recommending technics and i'm some turntable prophet? :D what i'm recommending is that he gain knowledge based on first hand experience and not hearsay!!!

if you want to buy technics cos its used en masse rather than cos of intrinsic build qualities or some feature you like well that's your prerogative.

lemmings are known to jump off cliffs en masse simply cos the group is doing it. is it a good thing or common sense thing to do? :D

this is precisely why i posted what i posted. i am against people recommending simply cos everyone is using it without stating what they think (from reading up on the features, first hand experience etc...) makes it a better/worse turntable compared to others.

i'd be interested to know why you think technics is a good player? are you running a technics? for how long? which cart? what are the turntables you have listened to? with what carts? which phono stages? why have you not liked the other turntables and preferred the technics?

that would make a sensible recommendation for technics i think would it not?

regards
 
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