Double Blind Test (DBT)

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

SoS is not an audiophile magazine, which is the point. They are not invested behind selling the latest "audiophile" product.

Your claim is that all DACs, CD players sound the same as long as they are level matched. This is something which even the studio / recording publications and users seem to disagree with..

And the point is? Which one would you buy since you "trust your ears"? I don't see the relevance since he is talking about headroom and clipping. He mentioned clipping in one and ignored in the other. And I don't see a DBT. Just another review like Kal Rubinson's Stereophile.


BTW, what is .."when auditioning audio without inter-sample peaks"? How does that help us?

Why keep it? If you are so convinced, sell that and use the output from a motherboard with an on board realtek sound card.

Already sold. And the guy who bought it from me advertised it at price of $1000 more than what he paid me.

 

[dheerajin]

Hi ambio next week i am getting pathos logos amp and theta gen v Dac...have you had the exp of similar setup..i am just getting for one month or so..

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

..@Ambio: Lot of our assumptions are based on our own setup. You seem to have a harbeth. I have read in many places that harbeths don't show much difference between components. In fact the creator challenges that any half decent CDP and amp is enough to make the harbeths sound the way they should. Now, this may be the reason for a lot of your assumptions. You are in for a surprise when you change (for example to a thiel which lays bare everything your components have and don't have).

Maybe, you are right. Anyway, I am no longer using Harbeth. Feedback appreciated..http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/54272-harbeth-vs-sound-lab.html

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

And the point is? Which one would you buy since you "trust your ears"? I don't see the relevance since he is talking about headroom and clipping. He mentioned clipping in one and ignored in the other. And I don't see a DBT. Just another review like Kal Rubinson's Stereophile.

I wouldnt buy either based on his opinion - like I said, I listen to products and decide for myself. My simple contention is that people other than you do seem to hear differences between DACs etc

Since you are so adamant, can you point me to a credible source (ie not Toms Hardware, but by people who actually care about music ad sound reproduction) which conclusively proves all DACs / CD players sound alikes? So far all we have is your opinion.

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

Hi ambio next week i am getting pathos logos amp and theta gen v Dac...have you had the exp of similar setup..i am just getting for one month or so..

I don't really remember hearing a Pathos but I always liked tube sound for vocals. When I replaced my SS preamp with Tube Preamp I enjoyed the sound better with Theta. Slight colouration. Just my personal preference and on occasion I think certain genre sounded better with SS preamp.

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

I wouldnt buy either based on his opinion - like I said, I listen to products and decide for myself. My simple contention is that people other than you do seem to hear differences between DACs etc

Since you are so adamant, can you point me to a credible source (ie not Toms Hardware, but by people who actually care about music ad sound reproduction) which conclusively proves all DACs / CD players sound alikes? So far all we have is your opinion.

I thought you trusted your ears. Get a friend and do the DBT yourself and let your ears decide. And also refer to $700 to $12000 thread/post.

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

I thought you trusted your ears. Get a friend and do the DBT yourself and let your ears decide. And also refer to $700 to $12000 thread/post.

Since you are asking me for links etc, its only fair you present the same. The US$700-12000 post refers to some unnamed person's opinion who you happen to know. Thats not a published DBT but an opinion - something you think is worthless.

Like I mentioned earlier, I dont have the time/inclination/resources to do a DBT. My ears tell me DACs sound different, you are the one insisting they dont without any credible evidence

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

Since you are asking me for links etc, its only fair you present the same. The US$700-12000 post refers to some unnamed person's opinion who you happen to know. Thats not a published DBT but an opinion - something you think is worthless.

Like I mentioned earlier, I dont have the time/inclination/resources to do a DBT. My ears tell me DACs sound different, you are the one insisting they dont without any credible evidence

You are wrong. This DBT is listed in HydrogenAudio. It is made by level headed Hifi Enthusiasts. I have provided the link earlier.

Again why so afraid of DBT when it takes nothing other than just listening. Your spouse or friend or children could do the changes without your knowledge and all you have to do is to listen and at end of each day guess the player. After 20 days compare your notes. 20 days is a small price to pay to liberate yourself form the never ending world of upgrades. Trust your ears. I am sure they are better than mine. Who knows you could identify each players correctly. And you will also liberate me from my ignorance.

Have confidence in your ears. Trust your ears...

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

You are wrong. This DBT is listed in HydrogenAudio. It is made by level headed Hifi Enthusiasts. I have provided the link earlier.

I must have missed the post. Please point me to it.

I dont own multiple components of each type to do a DBT. I also get too little time to site and listen to music at home, dont want to spend it testing components when I am happy with the sound I'm getting and have no real plans to change anything.

 

[coaltrain]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ROFL ROFL, now where have you been hiding all this while? we demand that you post in every other thread, as frequently as time permits as guru dakshina :lol:

hiding in plain sight, it would appear
glad you found the funny in here. some people take themselves too seriously

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

I must have missed the post. Please point me to it.....

No worries. It is good to argue out. We all can learn something new.

Thinking is different than proving. The player is cheaper than US700.

Here is the link.. And I have tried many years to encourage fellow audiophiles over here to conduct similar experiment. No one would want to do except for a few.

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

No worries. It is good to argue out. We all can learn something new.

That test is not specific to CD players and DACs. It says that nothing except the speaker matters - something that even you don't buy into.

These guys did one test eight years ago and nothing since? Seems a bit odd. Even the forum doesnt have much activity

 

[coaltrain]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

Hi ambio next week i am getting pathos logos amp and theta gen v Dac...have you had the exp of similar setup..i am just getting for one month or so..

hi dheerajin

I have the pathos classic MkIII, their entry level integrated. it was my first foray into tubes and I really love the sound.

you'll find my over-enthusiastic rambling here:
http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/27301-tube-light.html

being the next level up, I'm sure the logos would offer a similar sonic signature.

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

That test is not specific to CD players and DACs. It says that nothing except the speaker matters - something that even you don't buy into.

These guys did one test eight years ago and nothing since? Seems a bit odd. Even the forum doesnt have much activity

I think you are confusing me with someone. I hv always insisted that speakers are the only one easily distinguishable. Mostly... as one famous designer couldn't even recognize his own speaker when he took a DBT.

When it comes to DBT or Ambiophonics expect a smaller circle of friends and isolation. Why do you think I am in this forum instead of one in my country? It just difficult to talk about DBT without getting into a cat fight.

I am always ready for DBT but no one would come. Now I ended up paying my son's school mates for DBT just to be sure of that my judgment is not clouded with emotion or attachment. At least, I can expect honesty in their opinions.

Regarding MatrixHifi. I would say it has been 8 years since anyone could come up with similar DBT debunking their findings. It is hard. If you look up some other forums, you would have seen me strongly advocating SACD.

 

[sarith]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

hi dheerajin

I have the pathos classic MkIII, their entry level integrated. it was my first foray into tubes and I really love the sound.

you'll find my over-enthusiastic rambling here:
http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/27301-tube-light.html

being the next level up, I'm sure the logos would offer a similar sonic signature.

Too bad I missed it. It's too late to 'like' your post. Well described..fun to read

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

I think you are confusing me with someone. I hv always insisted that speakers are the only one easily distinguishable. Mostly... as one famous designer couldn't even recognize his own speaker when he took a DBT.





When it comes to DBT or Ambiophonics expect a smaller circle of friends and isolation. Why do you think I am in this forum instead of one in my country? It just difficult to talk about DBT without getting into a cat fight.





I am always ready for DBT but no one would come. Now I ended up paying my son's school mates for DBT just to be sure of that my judgment is not clouded with emotion or attachment. At least, I can expect honesty in their opinions.





Regarding MatrixHifi. I would say it has been 8 years since anyone could come up with similar DBT debunking their findings. It is hard. If you look up some other forums, you would have seen me strongly advocating SACD.

I found this : http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_cd.htm


Refers to a study published in the 1990s which found differences are possible. I don't know the veracity of the publication though. If its genuine I would go with it nor than an anonymous online post



Your earlier post talked about amps and cable geometry mattering. The matrix guys think it doesn't

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

I found this : ABX Double Blind Tests: CD Players & DA Converters


Refers to a study published in the 1990s which found differences are possible. I don't know the veracity of the publication though. If its genuine I would go with it nor than an anonymous online post



Your earlier post talked about amps and cable geometry mattering. The matrix guys think it doesn't

Cant remember about amps and cables. Please provide the link.

Well...What to be surprised there? Change you CDP filter and you would here the difference too. And you expect them to sound similar? It is a 14 bit vs 18 bit 1980s players.

I think I should have qualified my statement. OK..in case you are wondering, there was a slight difference between my Marantz and Theta. If I change the filter to slow (or it could be high) the difference would be eliminated.

 

[jai1611]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

Cant remember about amps and cables. Please provide the link.

Well...What to be surprised there? Change you CDP filter and you would here the difference too. And you expect them to sound similar? It is a 14 bit vs 18 bit 1980s players.

I think I should have qualified my statement. OK..in case you are wondering, there was a slight difference between my Marantz and Theta. If I change the filter to slow (or it could be high) the difference would be eliminated.

The same Matrix test that you linked to. Basically they couldnt make out the difference between very low end electronics (amp+CDP+cable) and very high end electronics.

In your setup, there was some difference between the Theta and Marantz - just not critical to your listening experience. Is that a fair assessment?

 

[Ambio]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

The same Matrix test that you linked to. Basically they couldnt make out the difference between very low end electronics (amp+CDP+cable) and very high end electronics.

In your setup, there was some difference between the Theta and Marantz - just not critical to your listening experience. Is that a fair assessment?

It doesn't matter. Irrespective of the setting. You could not positively identify the Theta or Marantz or Sony SCD 1 or Quad or Counterpoint or Accupahase or Classe. I know the cymbal crashing in one of AR Rahman tracks sounds slightly biting when the filter is set to sharp or slow..(cant really remember). But in some other tracks the it could sound better with the opposite setting. I was playing with it till got tired. Why chase and a slight difference which I cant identify independently without a reference. Put in a new track and it is all back to guess work finding which setting is correct.

Please go back to the procedure I listed in my reply to Ranjeetrain's post.

BTW, I think we are way off from the original topic and would suggest to start a separate thread.

 

[Santy]

Re: Are CD Player still relevant?

BTW, I think we are way off from the original topic and would suggest to start a separate thread.

Yes, please do so and give the link.