Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

[SSS]

For several years, we have had requests from a couple of audiophile friends to design & build a Home Audio &/or HT setup using the following concepts / options:

1. Fully active with bi/tri/quad amplificitaion (as required).
2. Use High-Quality Pro-Audio Components
3. Horn Loaded (especially mids & highs)
4. "Behind the screen" speakers, especially the center channel (for projector based HT setups with acoustically transparent screen).
5. Full-Range main left & right speakers (no need for a sub).
6. Ability to perform at high decibel levels when required (the home-disco-theater concept).

Being from the Pro-Audio industry, we like high quality sound, but also like the ability to shake our guts once in a while! Looking at some of the products in the market, (large active speakers systems for stereo & surround-sound monitoring) we believe that the benefits / advantages of quality active speakers can be made available without one having to sell his house.

Before getting this project on the road, I would appreciate your ideas & inputs on this concept. When designing a speaker, one has to select the right mix of benefits & compromises, eg.- Use a smaller LF driver to reduce size of the cab, & one will loose on LF Extention.

How will this speaker preform?

What, as per you should be the Low-Frequency capability? In Pro-Audio, we are happy with 35Hz. While this may be too high for Audiophiles, what exactly is required? Has anyone heard 20Hz? (with a 20Hz sine-wave fed into the sub, and a spectrum analyzer to listen along with you to make sure you are not listening to a harmonic of 20Hz!)

What, as per you should be the High-Frequency capability? While an 18-20kHz range is doable, are you ready to shell out an extra 1-1.5 lacs for a pair of Fostex super tweeters to take your speakers to the dog whistle level?

How loud would you like it? Your typical Home Audio Tower with a 90dB efficiency, fed by your 125w AVR should give about 110dB SPL of continuous output. 115dB is the legal limit for clubs, but most play at above 120dB on the dance floor. So what do you fancy? 120? 125? 130? (127dB will require about 1kW amplification into the sub

How big can it be? With pro-audio drivers, we will almost certainly have to use an 18" driver on the LF duty if we want it to hit decent lows. Cabinet size requirement will be large. Since SPL output requirement will not be very high, we could use 2 drivers in an isobaric push-pull configuration to reduce the size of the cab, but that would add to costs.

Here's some food for thought:

 

[Pandamaudio]

Wow! Nice to see a fan of active loudspeaker systems especially one who can design and build them. You must know a lot about the technology in active loudspeaker systems and you probably must have a fully equipped lab to be able to design and build them. Do let us know something about yourself and technical background and equipment. It would be interesting to know

 

[SSS]

Wow! Nice to see a fan of active loudspeaker systems especially one who can design and build them. You must know a lot about the technology in active loudspeaker systems and you probably must have a fully equipped lab to be able to design and build them. Do let us know something about yourself and technical background and equipment. It would be interesting to know

Thanks! Yes we have all the necessary test & design equipment, lab & manufacturing setup. We are based in Indore, and we design & manufacture High-Power Pro-Audio Amps (Class-H, and soon to be launched Class-D).

Cheers!

 

[Pandamaudio]

Yeah I noticed you are from Indore and was wondering if you might be from the famous Zypher Power Labs Pvt. Ltd.

 

[sonosphere]

Hi SSS,
As a music-listener I have following comments in blue:

.....

How will this speaker preform?

What, as per you should be the Low-Frequency capability? In Pro-Audio, we are happy with 35Hz. While this may be too high for Audiophiles, what exactly is required? Has anyone heard 20Hz? (with a 20Hz sine-wave fed into the sub, and a spectrum analyzer to listen along with you to make sure you are not listening to a harmonic of 20Hz!)
>> Considering some "electronic" music tracks go down to limit of audibility, the speaker should do 20Hz with flat response. To suit different budget ranges ( or genre requirements) you may have models that do 20 Hz, 40 Hz, 60 Hz etc.

What, as per you should be the High-Frequency capability? While an 18-20kHz range is doable, are you ready to shell out an extra 1-1.5 lacs for a pair of Fostex super tweeters to take your speakers to the dog whistle level?
>> I can't hear above 14 KHz. I've read, many above 45 yrs can't. In this case let the buyer choose how high he wants to go /or his budget permits. Again, you may have models that do 14 KHz, 16 KHz, 18KHz, 20 KHz etc

How loud would you like it? Your typical Home Audio Tower with a 90dB efficiency, fed by your 125w AVR should give about 110dB SPL of continuous output. 115dB is the legal limit for clubs, but most play at above 120dB on the dance floor. So what do you fancy? 120? 125? 130? (127dB will require about 1kW amplification into the sub
>> If I am not wrong, party-music lovers wouldn't need carefully engineered speakers that do 120 dB with flat response... mass market boom-boxes would do just fine (guys... not trying to be a snob here... please don't flame me ) ... So a spkr delivering 95dB at 3 mtrs should satisfy a music lover sitting on his living room couch.

How big can it be? With pro-audio drivers, we will almost certainly have to use an 18" driver on the LF duty if we want it to hit decent lows. Cabinet size requirement will be large. Since SPL output requirement will not be very high, we could use 2 drivers in an isobaric push-pull configuration to reduce the size of the cab, but that would add to costs.
>> ...this is not just considering WAF... I do believe that speakers in a home-audio setup shouldn't dominate the interiors. The technology advancements should allow our spkr cabinets to be much smaller that they were 10 yrs ago. If 80Hz cutoff is sufficient for directional cues /imaging then the spkr size can be reduced drastically (e.g in small monitors).

Of course now the challenge gets transferred to do a sub to match the monitors (... match in speed /coherence /tonality etc.). Personally I'd be happy with such sub doing just 40Hz, but not costing a bomb like Velodynes. I also like the fact that such "mono" sub can be moved around (no "directionality" reqd !) /camouflaged in interiors. Floorstanders? ... no luck

I am adding one accessory that should be considered as optional product:
Room-correction "box" >> This box should, as a bare-minimum, correct the room-modes. Doing phase corrections and time-domain corrections... not sure if these can be applied to the signal coming from cdp/other source.
....

Hope the above helps...

 

[navin advani]

Yeah I noticed you are from Indore and was wondering if you might be from the famous Zypher Power Labs Pvt. Ltd.

I too figured "SSS" would be Sanjay Sisodia from Zypher.

 

[SSS]

Yeah I noticed you are from Indore and was wondering if you might be from the famous Zypher Power Labs Pvt. Ltd.

Yes I am from Zypher, but I dont think we are so "famous" !

thanks.

 

[denom]

Yes I am from Zypher, but I dont think we are so "famous" !

thanks.

Don't worry seesu you & your partner in crime will be very soon

 

[venkatcr]

Members, I found bulk of the discussions in this thread to be meaningless for the topic and objective started by the OP. I have moved all the posts elsewhere to http://www.hifivision.com/active-speakers/24686-active-speakers-price-vs-quality.html. Those who are interested can continue the discussions there. I don't want to see any such posts here.

Please continue with posts and discussions relevant to what the OP has started.

Cheers

 

[denom]

Thanks Venkat, this was necessary.

Kanwar & Sanjay,

can you please share some designs that you have made which will be suitable for the home audio set-up?

Kindly also share some details on the drivers/amps used.

 

[Hi-Fi]

I suggest you guys at Zypher look at doing a range of small 2-way bi-amped active speaker systems, perhaps three models with 4inch, 6inch & 8inch bass drivers, with a large wide waveguide for the tweeter, mixed mode current-voltage amplifiers ( http://sound.westhost.com/7053705.pdf ) perfectly optimised for each driver, active crossover with precise filters and all the necessary compensations, and the speaker system should have the sound quality like the Genelec 8000 series

Ofcourse the price should be reasonable, so that everyone can afford it.

I am sure this kind of product range will be a huge success :licklips:

 

[kanwar]

I suggest you guys at Zypher look at doing a range of small 2-way bi-amped active speaker systems, perhaps three models with 4inch, 6inch & 8inch bass drivers, with a large wide waveguide for the tweeter, mixed mode current-voltage amplifiers ( http://sound.westhost.com/7053705.pdf ) perfectly optimised for each driver, active crossover with precise filters and all the necessary compensations, and the speaker system should have the sound quality like the Genelec 8000 series

Ofcourse the price should be reasonable, so that everyone can afford it.

I am sure this kind of product range will be a huge success :licklips:

HI-FI,

Thanxz for the inputs.

Every brand has its own concept behind their products. In same way we have ours such as incorporating high efficiency pro-audio drivers, design concepts such as horn loading, class-d active amplification etc into home audio. In otherwords you can say we are planning to bridge the gap between pro-audio and home audio with an optimized solution interms of price and performance aspects.



Kanwar

 

[kanwar]

Recently completed Zypher Anamyst 3-way Active system.

 

[denom]

Hi Kanwar,

Those speakers look AWESOME!!!
Kindly share some tec specs of them.

 

[kanwar]

Each Tower has LF=500W, Mids=150W, Highs=100W powered from multidrive amplifier, which also has a 3 way linkwitz riley active XO built with discrete single ended class-A buffers.

 

[denom]

Each Tower has LF=500W, Mids=150W, Highs=100W powered from multidrive amplifier, which also has a 3 way linkwitz riley active XO built with discrete single ended class-A buffers.

Great, pls also share info on the drivers used, the cabinet materials, wiring & whether the amps are built in or in separate cabinets etc...

BTW how much do these speakers weigh???

Thanks

 

[kanwar]

All drivers are from Beyma 18G550 for lows, 12MI100 for mid lows in center channel, 8MI100 for mids, CP755 for highs, SMC8060 for center channel highs, cabinet is made from Teak and Pine. Amp cabs are of pure OAK wood with melamine polish. Wiring is done with Finolex and Altec professional grade cabling.

Each Tower is around 78kg, Center channel is around 60kg and amps are 25kg each.

hope this helps.....

 

[dillihifi]

Well finally after a lot of adjusting the schedules and postponements did manage to tie up with Sid for a brief listening session with the Zypher system last Saturday.

On entering the room and seeing the speakers you got to have one word for it they are simply WOW . Well I saw the fit and finish on the speakers were top notch, they look really good. The speakers are of 3-way design and are powered by individual amps. The amps are now kept near the speaker and they finish on the amps match the speakers so obviously they look good paired together. These speakers are pretty huge and will not fit in my living room.

Turning the system on first we heard some music from the various CD Best in lounge Vol-3, Chris Jones, Acoustic Vocal CD, some other regional CDs like Musafirana- Srikant Acharya, Balkrishna Das, (just finding out the tonality of the system). The speaker though 3-way had a midrange which needs to be listened to be believed the music is not dry and clinical which I had expected it to be but a little on the warmer side which does give a nice body to the music. From the listening position I could make out separation of the instruments very distinctly they really are good. The sound-staging is very nice you could close your eyes and feel literally the singer in the centre. There was just a touch of bass overhang in the Chris Jones CD but there is a provision of adjusting the lows, mids and highs as per your own preference. I am really delighted by the speakers.

Well after the brief listening session came to an end and loved what I heard.