emotiva?? Audiophile ?? really??

[aminder]

lately i have been hearing about the emotiva brand a lot , ie how they design their products back at their labs in USA etc etc and how the manage to deliver audiophile quality at low prices without the middle men this is what they say at their website:

After many years as an audio electronics manufacturer for other companies, Dan Laufman wanted to introduce his own brand of electronics built around two of his passions: music and home theater. The idea was to bring the same quality, high-end equipment that he was manufacturing for others and offer them directly to the consumers, thereby eliminating all middlemen and making available to everyone the same equipment that fueled his passion.

To establish any company, you must first have a name. We need one word that says so much about who we are and what we do. For Dan, that word was EMOTIVA. Translating to emotion and signifying the passion put into every product we make, Emotiva Audio Corporation was born. We are passionate about what we do and bring that passion to every aspect of who we are and how we do business. From attention to detail in the design and manufacturing to our commitment to customers, we believe in what we do. We bring you, the customer, audiophile quality equipment at the best possible prices


but to my surprise emotiva is just a company who picks ups pre designed stuff manufactured in bulk quantities from chinese manufacturers and dumps them on the internet market claiming them to be designed by their engineers
in USA

now this is somthing one of the emotiva lover says on their forum

There seems to be a group of folks in the online world that believe there's some sort of major conspiracy going on here. Emotiva, like the rest of the world, has manufacturers build products for them. This conspiracy group believes this is evil, only on Emotiva's part, though, it's ok for everyone else. So, they have 'called out' Emotiva, and 'proven' that Emotiva is using 3rd-party manufacturing companies, just like Emotiva has said they've been doing all along. Having exposed the truth that Emotiva admits to, the folks at Emotiva have no choice but to 'own up' and admit to the truth they have already publicly disclosed. Now, the truth is out. Emotiva can no longer cover up the truth that they haven't been trying to cover up. Everyone knows, despite Emotiva's best efforts to make it clear in the first place.

There you have it. Lonnie admits to all the truths he and Dan have been admitting to all along. The conspiracy is finally uncovered, unveiled for the world to see

check this link out

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/3020/2009112516534439.jpg

a ghost of the umc1

and for everbody elses knowledge
the umc 1 is avaliable in about 4 different outlooks having the same chinese designed stuff on the inside

China Preamplifier. Guangzhou Manufacturer, Exporter

the oem retail price of the chinese one is just USD 399 now thats Audiophile

what i am worried about is that whats the real worth of these products , what are the people buying ? is it an audiophile quality stuff or is it nothing more than a product manufactured in bulk quantities and sold under any brandname who can pay for customized brand logo

Sherbourn SR-120


another version of the umc 1 this one has built in amp

there is another version avaliable under a different brand that features balanced outputs
instead of a built in amp

 

[sachi]

well of coure they are using pre-made stuff that is mass produced in China. I honestly do stay away from any audio gear (and if I can, other goods as well, but it is really hard these days) that comes out of China.

 

[spirovious]

Now a Q,why chinese are so gr8? Not marketing products?

 

[santhosh]

Aminder, what is the point you are trying to make? Sorry, lost you mate.

If you are deciding whether to buy or not, I can recommend the Emotiva UMC-1 or any Emotiva product to you. It is a fantastic product available at a fantastic price. Frankly, as a consumer, why should anyone care how/why Emotiva is selling at such a low price.

 

[Amit21]

I think, these might be duplicates of Emotiva....Everybody would agree that Chinese are master of making duplicates.....you can get a duplicate of every successful product in the market ....specifically for electronics....
Moreover, considering they are just procuring the complete product from chinese manufacturer than they would not provide 5yrs warranty on them....

The one you mentioned (Sherbourn) is a US company and too have distributor in India (The Soundsmiths, Mumbai)

Also, we cant ignore the fact that fans of Emotiva are increasing day by day and that should be purely coz of the performance and quality of the same...


There are few members on this forum who i suppose are proud owner of Emotiva.....would appreciate if they can share their experiences ....

 

[anilva]

Aminder, what is the point you are trying to make? Sorry, lost you mate.

If you are deciding whether to buy or not, I can recommend the Emotiva UMC-1 or any Emotiva product to you. It is a fantastic product available at a fantastic price. Frankly, as a consumer, why should anyone care how/why Emotiva is selling at such a low price.

+1.

Cannot understand what Aminder is trying to say. Do you believe majority of the hifi vendors make their stuff themselves anymore. All the big brands make them out of China. So what? As long as they deliver value and quality, should we be bothered?

 

[jitubisht]

There seems to be a group of folks in the online world that believe there's some sort of major conspiracy going on here. Emotiva, like the rest of the world, has manufacturers build products for them. This conspiracy group believes this is evil, only on Emotiva's part, though, it's ok for everyone else. So, they have 'called out' Emotiva, and 'proven' that Emotiva is using 3rd-party manufacturing companies, just like Emotiva has said they've been doing all along. Having exposed the truth that Emotiva admits to, the folks at Emotiva have no choice but to 'own up' and admit to the truth they have already publicly disclosed. Now, the truth is out. Emotiva can no longer cover up the truth that they haven't been trying to cover up. Everyone knows, despite Emotiva's best efforts to make it clear in the first place.

I hope you did get LOADS of sarcasm here.. I am really keen to understand what you meant by this:

There you have it. Lonnie admits to all the truths he and Dan have been admitting to all along. The conspiracy is finally uncovered, unveiled for the world to see

 

[maniac_2004]

check this link out

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/3020/2009112516534439.jpg

a ghost of the umc1

and for everbody elses knowledge
the umc 1 is avaliable in about 4 different outlooks having the same chinese designed stuff on the inside

are you implying that if I buy this I get the same performance of an emotiva at a lower price ?

 

[aminder]

what i m bothered about is that if a person invests 700 usd in buying an audiophile product which is being sold to him saying that it is being designed by a company in the united states and made in china there is no problem at all but then another person buys the same product for a lot less money ,then what about the guy who invested a lot more for the similar equipment wouldnt he be questioning about the real worth and quality and wouldnt he feel angry about the lies he was told

yes its very obvious that you ll get a similar quality , i have images of these with their top covers open and part for part these are alike and let me tell everybody that these are not duplicates but these products are from the OEM manufacturer who supplies to emotiva too .

i understand that anilva but i dont think you can get an onkyo av in a denons outer jacket or vice versa or let it be any other bigger brand name who has a same product with similar specs selling at two prices lets say 1000 usd and 500 usd having different names though

 

[maniac_2004]

yes its very obvious that you ll get a similar quality , i have images of these with their top covers open and part for part these are alike and let me tell everybody that these are not duplicates but these products are from the OEM manufacturer who supplies to emotiva too .

could you link the same?

 

[psychotropic]

aminder, the fact that there exist chinese 'versions' of the emotiva products does not implicate emotiva. it could very easily be, and most likely, is a chinese OEM manufacturer pimping stuff designed by Emotiva, under their own brand for cheaper.

I know this happens in other fields. There is a company in Chennai that makes guitars for a very well known American guitar company called Jackson. These beautiful Jackson designed, Jackson engineered guitars, are also sold for cheaper by this company under the "Tansen" brand name (full disclosure, I own and use a Tansen guitar) in India. I don't see anyone going around criticising Jackson because their OEM manufacturer has been clever and has pimped their high quality products at lower prices, without any R&D or innovation of their own.

Do you really imagine that Chinese OEM manufacturers have the R&D and design facilities and talent to come up with equipment like that? Or let me flip that question around. Why would the Chinese OEM guy spend on R&D and design, when they can rip-off the designs of their clients, it's not like Chinese companies are traditionally averse to copy-cat work.

This, frankly, is a bullshit conclusion Aminder. Makes no sense.

 

[aminder]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19248385


check this link out it speaks for it self

here's what the admin at emotiva forum has to say


The Emotiva Lounge - Will the new XMC be made by Tonwinner?

The Official Emotiva Q&A thread - Page 514 - Blu-ray Forum

another link

 

[psychotropic]

no it doesn't. It shows that the products look identical. That does not in ANY way demonstrate that:

1. Emotiva did not design and engineer the product
2. The OEM manufacturer did not decide to make a quick buck himself by making knockoffs

Please think about this for a second. What is more likely? (a) Emotiva designing and engineering a component like that or (b) a Chinese OEM company? Only if your answer is (b) would your contention make any sense.

And if you believe it's (b), then dude pass me whatever it is that you're smoking.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19248385


check this link out it speaks for it self

 

[psychotropic]

So what is your point aminder? You're posting a lot of links, but not setting out what your point is. Have you even read what people have posted in response?

 

[spirovious]

Is he trying to say similar to Lexicon story?

http://www.hifivision.com/blu-ray-d...7917-lexicon-bluray-player-rebadged-oppo.html

 

[sachi]

I am all for supporting local companies and that means design and manufacturing. Falling into the "oh, its so cheap" due to the 'globalization ' factor is one of the main reasons the US economy is in such shambles. Nothing worthy other than hi-tech manufacturing left back here now. People are too used to having appliances and electronics on the cheap, disposable electronics has become the norm rather than community based businesses.

Support local wheneer you can I say and if you can't then jst don't suport China. The reason for me is ethical and political. I don't think the latter is allowed onthe forums so I'll end my contribution to the thread at that.

 

[aminder]

yes spirovious thats exactly what i am trying to say
thanx for helping me out here
and also the sherbourn brand sells the same umc 1 in their package for a lot lot more just like the lexicon did with the oppo brand

People what i believe is that whenever a person buys anything from a particular brand , its that brand value and its good quality plus a good worksmanship is what he gets fallen for .
companies like denon yamaha and onkyo do a lot of research each year on their line up and only then they manage to attract people to their products
look what yamaha has done with their new Aventage series and marantz has done with their latest av reciever now thats is somthing which is termed as research and hard work put into a product , and this is why an owner of such products feels proud of them . On the other hand emotiva and sherbourn and etc etc are none other than business minded companies who pick up stuff from china and sell it to the world at what ever price they want supported by lies

 

[digitalv]

I'm not an Emotiva fan boy but I come from the Hardware Product Design line of work and I clearly don't see any reasons to worry.

Almost every product company is forced to outsource their manufacturing to China or lower cost places to stay competitive and if the companies are not smart enough, their designs get copied within days and marketed as something else. Latest designs incorporate cryptographic keys which is closely guarded by the designer to prevent this kind of intellectual property pilferage.

The above links really doesn't prove anything:

1. That Emotiva didnt design the products
2. Whether the same components are used in the cloned design.(even the quality of a small resistor/capacitor in the audio chain matters)
3. Benchmark results between "cloned vs original"

If someone can prove that the cloned and the "original" product uses exactly the same quality components, well go ahead for the cloned product if it comes at a substantially lower cost. But be aware that support would usually be damned. Support costs are invariably built into the product cost and it is one of those main reasons which makes all well-supported products expensive.

 

[venkatcr]

.......... On the other hand emotiva and sherbourn and etc etc are none other than business minded companies who pick up stuff from china and sell it to the world at what ever price they want supported by lies

And do you have information, say from the President of Emotiva, that his company is a cheat? Professional reviewers have visited the Emotiva design factory and have seen the work that is going on there. The reason Emotiva sells inexpensively is that they use the Internet as a distribution medium. There are many such companies including Aperion Audio who have a great reputation in the market for bringing out products with great specifications and prices.

Though companies such as Onkyo, Yamaha etc., also do research, the reason their products are expensive is multiple. They have a vast organisational overheads that you pay for every time you buy their product. They have huge marketing expenses that you pay for. They have a huge distribution cost that you pay for. They have support costs through third parties that you pay for.

Irrespective of the size of the company, it does not take more than a couple of people to do research. These are extremely knowledgeable, and have a passion for their work. All the design in companies such as Parasound, dartZeel, ect., are done by just a few men. Do you know that literally every NAD product has been designed by one man - Bjorn Erik Edvardsen? All the products he has designed carries his tag - BEE. His first design - the 3020 - is considered a legend and is lusted after by people after 30 years. Does that make NAD a cheat?

Are you aware that the cost of a fully bottled beer is just 50 paise when it leaves the factory? Why do you pay Rs.25 or more for it? The same bottle of beer is sold at Rs.100 in a five star hotel. Who is the cheat here? This additional costing is because of what is called overheads. That does not mean one cannot sell it at Rs.5 if a smart distribution system can be set up. It may not be possible in beer, but companies such as Emotiva have achieved that in electronics.

That does not make them cheats. It is just that their business methods are different and their strategy is different.

Like Pyschotropic said, the Chinese are good at mass manufacture. They, as yet, do not have the capability to design anything. A Chinese company such as Oppo had to set up a design shop in the Silicon Valley for a player. They then used the Net for distribution. Does that make them cheats? Companies such as Yamaha, Onkyo, and others have water tight agreements with their manufacturing counterparts to ensure the Chinese do not copy their design. They also have legal departments to ensure this is not done. Where Emotiva seems to have failed is in this. Or maybe they don't care. After all, if someone copies you it is your reputation that goes up, is it not?

Literally every product of repute (including Luxman) have identical Chinese version. This is done in may parts of India where you can buy a electronics product and stick any label that you want.

Cheers

 

[sandip_d]

who pick up stuff from china and sell it to the world at what ever price they want supported by lies

These are very strong words I feel. Do you own any of the Emotivas? I dont know how namy people on this forum have Emotiva. But after having bought Emotiva I dont think they would feel the same. They say, in some shops in Japan, there are two counters for same brand, one is for made in Japan and other for made in China. Here the Customer has choice of selecting a same product at different prices. If someone wants to buy, he always have an option to buy The Original or The Clone as he desires. Here the same product is circulated by Chinese manufactures in their local market at lesser price, then how Emotiva is lying?
I have XPA-3( since 8 months) and USP-1(since 3 months) and would love to have more as the budget permitts because they made me happy. I can't elaborate the technical aspects of sound but they made movies and music sound better. Now how many brands can do that at same price point? As a new option is there to have them at even lesser price, a buyer can always select the source and make him happy.