Entry level speakers: Wharfedale 10.1, 10.2 or Audioengine A5 or P4

[abhiroopb]

Hi All!

Firstly, many thanks for helping me narrow down my speaker options. There is such a crazy range of choice I had no idea where to begin. I thought it was hard choosing a pair of headphones, but that was nothing compared to choosing a good set of speakers!

Background:
I currently own the following:
Sound Card: Asus Xonar Essence STX
Space Audio 2.0 Satellite Speakers (handling power 150 watts, frequency range 200hz-18khz)
JBL Power20 Amplifier
KOK Subwoofer - 16Hz - 160Hz, 6.5", 30W (RMS) 60W (Max)

I recently upgraded my PC and installed the ASUS soundcard and now I want to upgrade my sound system as well.

My budget is an absolute maximum of SGD 1,000.

I am not interested in getting a USB DAC at this point as I think the ASUS ought to be sufficient, of course this may change in the future, but right now my focus (in order of priority):

1. Speakers
2. Sub-Woofer (if needed)
3. Amplifier (if needed)

Speakers
Initially, I was quite happy with my Space Audio satellite speakers, however I had a chance to listen to other entry-level speakers and decided to upgrade the full thing and get a brand new 2.0 (maybe 2.1) system.

With that in mind it seems that the two best options are either the Wharfedale Diamond 10 series (specifically either the 10.1 or 10.2) OR the Audioengine A5 or P4.

Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 or 10.2
I am a little unsure as to the cost of these speakers in Singapore, but from what I can tell the 10.2 is better than the 10.1. Of course this most likely comes with a premium on the price as well. With that in mind I intend to listen to both and if I find that the 10.2 is significantly better (so as to justify the price) then I would be interested in getting that one.

A helpful salesman pointed them out to me and they looked and sounded gorgeous. I only had a brief test of them so I still want to do a thorough test before deciding, however I really really liked them!

These two sets of speakers would require an amp and so regarding that please see my Amplifier section below.

Audioengine A5 or P4
The A5 has been recommended to me by a LOT of people as a simple and uncomplicated system that sounds amazing. I have read a lot of reviews and this truly seems like the set of speakers to get. If I like the sound of these then I think these would be my number 1 choice. Further, it has been suggested that using passive speakers with bad amplifiers are generally worse than getting a good powered speaker.

Having said that I have also heard that, generally speaking, active speakers are overall not as good as passive ones. Im obviously not well versed in the issue but I would like some input on this. Essentially would it be better for me to save the money on the A5, buy the P4 and use my JBL Power20 Amp? I mean as I already have the amp then I would essentially be saving money, buying a set of speakers that (from what I gather) sound virtually the same as the A5. Naturally, the JBL amp was not made to specifically work with the P4 so the integration between the A5 and its built-in amp and the JBL and the P4 is going to be different, however the saving in cost may be worth it. This is just something I want to throw up there and get some feedback on. I dont really want to compromise (much) on sound, so if the P4 with JBl amp will most certainly sound a LOT worse than the powered A5 then I dont think Ill be going for the P4.

Finally, would it make sense to connect the A5 to my JBL amplifier? Would it improve the sound? Again bear in mind if I cannot sell the amp and I do buy the A5 it will just be lying around. I dont want to force it down the throat of my new speakers but at the same time I dont want to throw them away!

Subwoofer
I have had a lot of input suggesting that these bookshelf speakers do not require any subwoofers. However, reviews suggest that while the bass is clean and tight it doesnt give you the raw thumping that can be heard and felt. I generally listen to rock, pop and hip/hop and sometimes to jazz and classical. Anyway I have seen what a difference buying a relatively cheap subwoofer can do to my music, essentially allowing me to hear the things in a song I had never heard before! With that in mind I am very keen on buying a subwoofer to match either the Wharf or the Audioengine.

Both companies make their own models of subwoofers (Wharf: SW 10, Audioengine: S8). However, there dont seem to be any conclusive reviews on these models, although they seem to be universally liked anyway.

So, my question is whether it is worth getting the sub if I really want the thumping sound and feeling and if so are the two options I mentioned the ideal ones to get?

If the Wharf and Audioengine costs about SGD 400 500 that should leave me with about SGD 500 to buy a subwoofer (providing I dont need an amplifier).

Amplifier
This is a rather difficult problem for me. I have a JBL Power20 amplifier which costs about SGD 300, which I bought about 2 years ago when I first acquired the Space Audio satellite speakers and I needed a relatively uncomplicated amplifier to power the two speakers. Right now I am unsure of what to do with the JBL Power20 amp. Someone has mentioned that as it is a power amp it should be sufficient to drive the Wharfs or Audioengines. Obviously, the A5 does not even need an amp anyway.

My query is this: can anyone figure out WHAT this amp is exactly and whether they would be suitable for the passive speaker options (i.e. the Wharf 10.1/2 and the P4).

Basically, I do not want to spend money on an amp unless I can find something that fits into my overall budget (SGD 1000). Also I dont want to simply throw my current one away. So, I would like to somehow utilize it in my new setup.

Sound Card
Bearing in mind I do not want to buy any more hardware at this point (including a USB DAC), what is the best way to connect up the speakers from my ASUS sound card?

Right now I have a RCA output from my sound card to my subwoofers input. The subwoofer has an output to my JBL amplifier and my JBL amplifier has two outputs to the satellite speakers.

I have heard of pre-amps and the like and I was wondering what the ideal setup would be? Again dont want to spend exorbitant amounts of money but if there is a relatively good way of improving the sound then I would like to know.

Listening Tests
I know the first thing everyone will say is go listen and then decide. I fully intend to do that tonight and I plan on spending a few hours in Adelphi, auditioning the four sets of speakers I have mentioned. If anyone can name any specific shops that they have had good experience with regarding these speakers please let me know (even if they are NOT in Adelphi).

Summary/Questions:

1. Between the 10.1 and 10.2 which is more recommended (bearing in mind I do not have an unlimited budget)? Essentially, is the price difference (nb: I dont know the prices yet in Singapore) worth it?
2. If my JBL Power20 amp works WELL with the Audioengine P4, should I get it instead of the A5?
3. Should I get a subwoofer? If so which one?
4. What is the best way to connect up all the equipment from my sound card?
5. Any good shops to try out these speakers?
6. What kind of prices am I looking at for the Wharfedale 10.1, 10.2 and SW-10 and the Audioengine A5, P4 and S8?
7. Any suggestions for speaker stands?

Any other speaker/subwoofer/general suggestions? Someone has mentioned Swans to me but I was unable to find any dealer for them in Singapore.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to read this unnecessarily long post! I will update after I have auditioned a few sets tonight.

 

[spirovious]

10.2 is better.How does JBL sounds?
For 10.2 you need laidback amp & not bright.If it sounds bright,then 9.2 will be better.

If you need good system based on PC,then A5 is best & no need to match amp as they are powered.-
Audioengine A5 Setup and Conclusion — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Sub can be added lator if you really need with A5.

Well connection to SC will be analoge only unless you have better ext DAC.

Price here for 10.2(14k around) & SW150 (18k), there you can get it for 3k less.

 

[abhiroopb]

10.2 is better.How does JBL sounds?
For 10.2 you need laidback amp & not bright.If it sounds bright,then 9.2 will be better.

If you need good system based on PC,then A5 is best & no need to match amp as they are powered.-
Audioengine A5 Setup and Conclusion — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Sub can be added lator if you really need with A5.

Well connection to SC will be analoge only unless you have better ext DAC.

Price here for 10.2(14k around) & SW150 (18k), there you can get it for 3k less.

1. I'm sure the 10.2 is better but is the increase in price justified?

2. JBL sounds fine it's a neat little unit that does what it's supposed to without any frills.

3. What does laidback amp mean?

4. A5 looks good but I am also on the fence with the P4 as I have an amp already. Since the P4 is cheaper and I don't need all the frills of the A5 (like USB connector) does it make more sense to buy the P4?

5. Any suggestions for a sub? I was reading some reviews and it seems that the Audioengine S8 isn't all that good (esp for the price).

6. What I meant by connections is that should I plug the amp into the RCA output of the ASUS or should I plug the subwoofer into the RCA output of the ASUS (right now it is connected to the sub). Actually the ASUS also has a digital out but I prefer the RCA.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[audiodelic]

Audioengine A5 should be good as speakers i can personally vouch for their sound quality. I also own the AS8 subwoofer which mates with it perfectly and will be enough.

But if your in singapore HSU should be available there if sound quality is a concern then your better off looking at the entry level subwoofer from HSU.

 

[abhiroopb]

Audioengine A5 should be good as speakers i can personally vouch for their sound quality. I also own the AS8 subwoofer which mates with it perfectly and will be enough.

But if your in singapore HSU should be available there if sound quality is a concern then your better off looking at the entry level subwoofer from HSU.

Thanks for the comments.

It seems as though the A5 has a LOT of supporters, especially cosnidering What HiFi gave the best speaker prize to the Wharf 10.1.

I generally like the look (on paper) of the A5 as well, so I'm starting to lean more towards it. All depends on how it sounds I guess!

Have never heard of HSU, any links to reviews?

Thanks

 

[audiodelic]

HSU Research

 

[abhiroopb]

HSU Research

Thanks!

The A5 seems a LOT more expensive than the Wharf. Considering I already have an amp (which may work well) should I just go for the Wharf?

 

[spirovious]

You need to carry amp with you for audition of Wharf & listen carefully.

 

[abhiroopb]

You need to carry amp with you for audition of Wharf & listen carefully.

Thanks, hopefully I will get time to do that tonight.

Someone suggested that I use the JBL as a pre-amp for the A5?

Generally, speaking the A5 seems to be getting a lot of support, more so than the Wharf. While the price is more I'd rather go with a product with the better reviews!

Also there will be less concerns regarding the amp.

Anyway what do you think about using the JBL as a preamp? Would it even work?

Essentially the suggestions is that I do the following:

- I connect the ASUS RCA output to the JBLs RCA input.
- Connect the JBLs copper speaker wire output to the two speakers inputs.
- And if I get a sub, attach the sub from the A5 sub outputs.

 

[spirovious]

- I connect the ASUS RCA output to the JBLs RCA input.
- Connect the JBLs copper speaker wire output to the two speakers inputs.
- And if I get a sub, attach the sub from the A5 sub outputs.

You cannot connect spk out to A5, you need A2 in that case.
If your amp has preout,then connect that to A5 input.

Update- JBL dont have preout-
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/jbl-power-20-a-292739/

So cant use with A5.

 

[abhiroopb]

You cannot connect spk out to A5, you need A2 in that case.
If your amp has preout,then connect that to A5 input.

Not sure if the JBL has a preout. But, by the looks of it I don't think so. Shame really

Is it worth getting a pre-amp? Some people seem to think it is good to have one with the A5.

 

[spirovious]

A5 are PC spk,so it has inbuilt basic preamp(say Bass/Treble),then 1st get spk with soundcard, listen & if you like sound,forget preamp.
If you feel something missing, add it lator.

I am getting good sound even with Headphones (D2X) using xonar CP settings(if reqd).

 

[abhiroopb]

Update: Went to Adelphi today.

Unfortunately, CD Acoustic was shut so couldn't try out the A5/S8. They seem to close quite early so the only way I can see them is over the weekend. Incidentally, are there any other shops in Singapore that sell the A5?

I had a chance to listen to a pair of Dali Lektor, Epos (don't remember the model), Wharfedales, Heco and Focal.

I got quite a big spectrum there from the lower end Wharf to the SGD 1000 Focal's.

My thoughts on bookshelf speakers are that I basically have to spend quite a bit (i.e. more than the 10.1 Wharf) to get really deep thumping lows. Obviously the more I pay the better the speakers will sound, but I really missed the sub by itself. After it was connected it was as though something was taken out of my ears and I could hear properly.

Now the problem is that unless I buy a very expensive active subwoofer I don't see how I can connect up a sub and two speakers to my JBL amp (which only has two speaker outs).

In summary I think based on how the A5 sounds I will be getting it together with the S8.

Any comments?

 

[abhiroopb]

A5 are PC spk,so it has inbuilt basic preamp(say Bass/Treble),then 1st get spk with soundcard, listen & if you like sound,forget preamp.
If you feel something missing, add it lator.

I am getting good sound even with Headphones (D2X) using xonar CP settings(if reqd).

Fair enough. I think the A5 with the S8 sub seems to be the best option. But, I still have to actually listen to those things!

 

[abhiroopb]

Just bought the A5 and the S8 sub. Sounded incredible with most of the songs I threw at it. However, it wasn't that great with more "technical" songs. However, it still blew my socks off, especially with the sub.

Thanks for all the help!

I'm just on the look out for some speaker stands now, so if anyone can help I'd appreciate it!

 

[grubyhalo]

... However, it wasn't that great with more "technical" songs. However, it still blew my socks off, especially with the sub.
...

Congrats on the A5's! :clapping: Could you explain a bit more about the 'technical songs' bit and what exactly the A5's lacked when playing these particular songs? Thanks!

 

[spirovious]

So now no further tension of searching,
Congrates.

 

[abhiroopb]

Congrats on the A5's! :clapping: Could you explain a bit more about the 'technical songs' bit and what exactly the A5's lacked when playing these particular songs? Thanks!

Thanks!

I decided to go with the IKEA Billy Bookcase as speaker stands. I needed some space for my books anyway and they were fairly cheap. They also went well with the rest of my (IKEA) room!

Regarding the "technical songs". Firstly, bear in mind my understanding is quite rudimentary in this regard.

Generally, if I listen to rock or heavy metal the guitar comes across beautiful as does the bass (especially with the sub - which I have set to about 30% volume and 80Hz crossover). However, if I listen to Bocelli or anything that has a lot of vocals it starts to sound a little "muddy". Now this may be the source file (and I have a feeling it is) because while a lot of my songs are flac, and almost all are 200kbps+ I do have some below 200kbps. There are also some classical songs such as Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique which has a huge range of instruments. It sounds good but in some situations it's very flat, as in they all have the same sound. Difficult to explain, it's just that (to my ears) it doesn't sound like what it should originally sound like. Again there are a lot of things I need to check and play around with which I need to do before I can clearly see (and hear) what's going on.

I'm going to put in a CD and have a listen tonight and really put it through its paces.

Any song you would recommend I listen to? To get a real sense of the thing?

The bass of the sub is crazy though really has the "booming" effect. Although even with the speakers on mute I can still hear the song so I think it works pretty well.

 

[audiodelic]

Yes im using my S8 subwoofer also at volume level 30% but i am using crossed over at 60 hz ..... 80 hz is the thx recommended but i sometimes find it boomy at 80 hz ...

Can someone advice on how to use a radioshack spl meter to determine the perfect cross over in matching bookshelves with a subwoofer.

 

[abhiroopb]

Yes im using my S8 subwoofer also at volume level 30% but i am using crossed over at 60 hz ..... 80 hz is the thx recommended but i sometimes find it boomy at 80 hz ...

Can someone advice on how to use a radioshack spl meter to determine the perfect cross over in matching bookshelves with a subwoofer.

Yes I think I have to play around with it a bit more as the sub is a little to "boomy" for my liking as well.

It's great for movies and games though. I was watching Iron Man and in the opening sequence where the Humvee is fired upon the shells exploding send reverberations through my room!

If you have any update on what the ideal settings (for you at least) are, please let me know!