Exclusively for Analog Lovers

[Dr.Bass]

I have read somewhere that at rarified levels, analog and digital sounds converge and tend to sound quite similar. One is not better than the other - just different presentations of the same truth.

The choice then is more of personal preference. I guess it is a bit like top end tube and solid state amplifications sounding similar than different.

Having only had the opportunity to listen to a few top end digital, I would love to be able hear a top end analog rig, but alas it is nowhere in sight.

I am sure digital technology for music reproduction would have progressed a lot if "high fidelity" was one of the main criteria for the consumers, but I dont see that to be the case. The reason is obvious, after all only a handful really care about quality of sound, most others are after quantity, convenience, cost and availability, so that is the area where things have progressed.

Take example of photography. Digital photography has progressed so much because there tons of people who are ready to pay for quality. DSLR is a household thing in developed countries. People splurge on photography on occasions and ceremonies. The same can be said about AV, people are ready for large screen TVs, HD home theatres hence things are rapidly and in real sense moving forward. Nobody cares for VHS tape.

Jls, the point is, in audio unfortunately digital is still far behind analog at highest level on sheer quality front.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Did you see this? Imperfect Sound Forever.

Written a few years back, and really a very depressing view indeed.

 

[square_wave]

I find this "most folks have not really listened at the highest level" to be a useless and pretentious argument. Will you take a Metronome Callista vs Continuum Calibrun. Why not the way Sundarpalanivel describes? In the same shop, in the same set-up, in the same price range, with the same music? Many people can do it and post fairly authentic and relevant opinions.

This is correct. I agree.

This is one of the ideal ways it should be done. But not always the practical way. It is extremely rare that you will find analogue and digital setups fully optimized and in the same price range in the same shop.

The key words are experience and serious effort. This can be in ones own home, shop-listening rooms, extensive experiences in fellow audiophiles homes or wherever appropriate. For example, I would take a fellow audiophile who has done both to extreme levels in his own home very seriously when he talks about his experiences. But not someone who hasnt.

 

[jls001]

I am sure digital technology for music reproduction would have progressed a lot if "high fidelity" was one of the main criteria for the consumers, but I dont see that to be the case. The reason is obvious, after all only a handful really care about quality of sound, most others are after quantity, convenience, cost and availability, so that is the area where things have progressed.

Take example of photography. Digital photography has progressed so much because there tons of people who are ready to pay for quality. DSLR is a household thing in developed countries. People splurge on photography on occasions and ceremonies. The same can be said about AV, people are ready for large screen TVs, HD home theatres hence things are rapidly and in real sense moving forward. Nobody cares for VHS tape.

Jls, the point is, in audio unfortunately digital is still far behind analog at highest level on sheer quality front.

I do believe what you say since you have been investing lots of time listening to some real fancy analog setups . And putting in tons of your hard earned money into building one. A good thing. You made up your mind the best way possible - by listening with your own ears.

OT alert: Speaking of digital cameras, I am sure the current tide will one day turn in favour of film Two things dictate that this will happen - one - the fickle cycle of fashion, and two - the sheer romance and quality of films. I don't know of any digital special effects that can capture the romance of portrait captured on a Fuji Velvia film.
OT alert over.

 

[square_wave]

Did you see this? Imperfect Sound Forever.

Written a few years back, and really a very depressing view indeed.

Lovely writeup. Thanks for sharing this

 

[moktan]

Did you see this? Imperfect Sound Forever.

Written a few years back, and really a very depressing view indeed.

great article. read with interest the lament about loudness, the scourge of the compressed dynamic range.
here is another interesting read A Recording Engineer's Plea for Dynamic Range

 

[Dr.Bass]

I do believe what you say since you have been investing lots of time listening to some real fancy analog setups . And putting in tons of your hard earned money into building one. A good thing. You made up your mind the best way possible - by listening with your own ears.

OT alert: Speaking of digital cameras, I am sure the current tide will one day turn in favour of film Two things dictate that this will happen - one - the fickle cycle of fashion, and two - the sheer romance and quality of films. I don't know of any digital special effects that can capture the romance of portrait captured on a Fuji Velvia film.
OT alert over.

jls, while I would like to see people experience for themselves and then agree/disagree with my views, I do agree that I was convinced after listening to both high end digital and high end analogue that if realism is my goal then analogue is the road. The fact that there are tons of LPs available in the record shops here made it even easier for me to take this decision. The road is not smooth, learning curve is very steep, expenses are not only high but also unpredictable but somewhere in the corner of your mind you know you are not after an elusive goal, the goal is real and exists, partially the goal is achieved because music is already so real, even the wear and tear is real and measurable, there is nothing left to imagination throughout this journey.

Many people stay away from LPs even though they know it is better than today's digital because they believe that sooner or later digital will out do analogue so they hang on to what they believe is the "future". But how far in the future will it happen that is where the whole gamble is. If it happens 10 years from now, is it worth it to lose 10 audiophile years in the waiting ?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I'd certainly like to hear your system one day. Not in any sense of challenge: just technical and musical appreciation. No idea when I'll be in Singapore again, though: maybe sometime this year.

(I'd like to see your view too )

Here's another one to mull over, on the economics of music this time, and how the old record companies made far better bosses, and were far better for the future of music than Apple, Amazon and co.

Meet The New Boss, Worse Than The Old Boss?

It seems that this internet of ours is not as wonderful as we sometimes think...


.

 

[malvai]

Many people stay away from LPs even though they know it is better than today's digital because they believe that sooner or later digital will out do analogue so they hang on to what they believe is the "future". But how far in the future will it happen that is where the whole gamble is. If it happens 10 years from now, is it worth it to lose 10 audiophile years in the waiting ?

totally agree... not worth waiting 10 years inn-it?

we analogue guys will cross that bridge when we come to it....

 

[Dr.Bass]

I'd certainly like to hear your system one day. Not in any sense of challenge: just technical and musical appreciation. No idea when I'll be in Singapore again, though: maybe sometime this year.

(I'd like to see your view too )

Yes, please do come. If you could keep half a day aside, apart from my place I would like to take you around to couple of other places which IMO have analogue rigs worth an experience, they are my references. My own system is just evolving.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

That would be great. I have family in Singapore, but now the great Tiger Airways deals we used to get seem to be no more.

Your tt-based system and Shanthi's digital system would make great benchmarks.

Actually, I have to buy soon, I think, as my old CD player seems to be sickening, and I think I want to replace it. Nothing special though, but it still really annoys me that "nothing special" can be had in UK for 150, but costs twenty to thirty thousand here. The differential, though, certainly doesn't merit Singapore air fares, let alone UK fares.

Investment at the moment, also, in a new amplifier, which is a bit more major, money-wise --- on a we-can't-repair-it-but-will-give-a-buy-back deal which I actually think is pretty good, although it still leaves a lot of money to be spent. Others here may think the other way around, but I like to know that I have decent amplification and speakers, and better sources can be, err, sourced, as and when possible

Thank you for your kind invitation: I will accept one day.

My own system is just evolving.

Actually, I'd be really interested, also, to hear the more modest decks too, eg entry-level Rega, Pro-Ject, etc too. That would be another benchmark. Maybe I should try to make it when one of those shows is on.

(No, I'm not planning a Return to Analogue! But neither am I about to throw all my old LPs away )

 

[Dr.Bass]

Your tt-based system and Shanthi's digital system would make great benchmarks.

Actually, I'd be really interested, also, to hear the more modest decks too, eg entry-level Rega, Pro-Ject, etc too. That would be another benchmark. Maybe I should try to make it when one of those shows is on.

Another forum member "Prem" also has a very nice analogue system based on EMT 938, he is in Mumbai, please do try to listen to his system also to get a richer flavor of this game

I also have a Technics SL1200, if it is still around when you are here you can get a taste of modest decks also.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

That would be a superb comparison. I'm very tempted

My MF V-LPSII would add a budget phono stage into the mix

 

[hifi pro]

Am looking for a good LP player repair guy in mumbai...Help

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Actually, I'd be really interested, also, to hear the more modest decks too, eg entry-level Rega, Pro-Ject, etc too. That would be another benchmark. Maybe I should try to make it when one of those shows is on.

You are welcome to visit and listen to my system.

Busy with work/travel for the next couple of weeks but should be free after 20 June.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[prem]

Thad e Ginathom


If you ever come to Mumbai, you can listen to my EMT 938 as well as my older Esoteric on my set up. The Esoteric has been sold to a friend but i can always get it for a day or two for comparison.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Thad e Ginathom


If you ever come to Mumbai, you can listen to my EMT 938 as well as my older Esoteric on my set up. The Esoteric has been sold to a friend but i can always get it for a day or two for comparison.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks, Rajiv, drop me a PM when things ease up.

 

[jls001]

Apparently, Exposure to Awesome Things Makes You a Better Person

Exposure to Awesome Things Makes You a Better Person

@thad: you're already on the right course to becoming an even better person

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Awesome!

But I don't know whether to love or hate that word :lol: The article makes me feel better about it. I guess the problem is calling things awesome, when they are not really awesome!