Exclusively for Analog Lovers
- Thread starter msagar
- Start date
Liked the article especially :lol:
"Another time I wrote that digital preserves music the way formaldehyde preserves frogs: you kill it and then it lasts forever, except as we came to find out CDs hardly last forever, physically or conceptually"
Setting up a Analog division is fine, but why this childish vehemence against digital? You don't like digital, that is fine. But you don't have to sing analog's praise by trying to destroy something else.
'hard, harsh, edgy, pinched, constricted, two dimensional, bright, and generally unbearable?' What a load of utter hogwash!! Digital does not sound any of that. I have heard more three dimensionality from digital systems than I think analog systems are even capable of. Have you ever heard a analog stereo system project sound so well that you hear music from behind your ears? I have heard that from a stereo digital system. But then you will say that this is because of the speakers and amplifier, and that is exactly my point. Analog and digital are sources. That is about all they can do. It is the processing that changes or makes them sound the way they are. In that area, we have just scratching the surface in terms of technology for processing of digital systems.
Till the beginning of 2011, everyone including Mr. Michael Fremer were trying to see which digital delivery systems sounded better. Now suddenly for everyone, digital is a pariah?
What will this be? A pitched battle between AudioStream and AnalogPlanet while Stereophile looks on helplessly? Silly and childish is all I can say.
Cheers
Michael Fremer said:
'hard, harsh, edgy, pinched, constricted, two dimensional, bright, and generally unbearable?' What a load of utter hogwash!! Digital does not sound any of that. I have heard more three dimensionality from digital systems than I think analog systems are even capable of. Have you ever heard a analog stereo system project sound so well that you hear music from behind your ears? I have heard that from a stereo digital system. But then you will say that this is because of the speakers and amplifier, and that is exactly my point. Analog and digital are sources. That is about all they can do. It is the processing that changes or makes them sound the way they are. In that area, we have just scratching the surface in terms of technology for processing of digital systems.
Till the beginning of 2011, everyone including Mr. Michael Fremer were trying to see which digital delivery systems sounded better. Now suddenly for everyone, digital is a pariah?
What will this be? A pitched battle between AudioStream and AnalogPlanet while Stereophile looks on helplessly? Silly and childish is all I can say.
Cheers
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Embrace both warmly and enjoy the best of both worlds.
My personal believe and experience is that both digital and analog sound good. "How good?" is a matter of how good is the source material. This of course assumes that both sources are equally good or near equals. One can't be comparing an entry- or mid-level turntable to a high-end CD player, and vice versa.
I have heard some real crappy sounding CDs. And I have heard tons of real crappy LPs. But by the same token I have heard some really good sounding CDs and LPs. No point in choosing which side of the fence to sit on. Sit on both sides and enjoy great music. There are way too many albums that are available only on CD, and not on vinyl. And vice versa.
PS: Michael Fremer usually has strong anti-CD views and one can safely ignore those rants and soak up his authoritative knowledge on the technical aspects of turntables and turntable set up.
My personal believe and experience is that both digital and analog sound good. "How good?" is a matter of how good is the source material. This of course assumes that both sources are equally good or near equals. One can't be comparing an entry- or mid-level turntable to a high-end CD player, and vice versa.
I have heard some real crappy sounding CDs. And I have heard tons of real crappy LPs. But by the same token I have heard some really good sounding CDs and LPs. No point in choosing which side of the fence to sit on. Sit on both sides and enjoy great music. There are way too many albums that are available only on CD, and not on vinyl. And vice versa.
PS: Michael Fremer usually has strong anti-CD views and one can safely ignore those rants and soak up his authoritative knowledge on the technical aspects of turntables and turntable set up.
Nice to know you have heard such good digital system. Will you care to elaborate which is the best analog system you have heard ? That will set the reference !!
iaudio
Well-Known Member
Listening to a good analog/TT based system touches an emotional chord that is so hard to describe. But even this cannot be generalised, some Lps just sound quite dull, and sometimes pops and crackles are all that can be heard.
However, i strongly disagree with the author that a 3D sound cannot be had from a CD based set up! I have listened to many in my limited experience, so I cannot fathom how the author concluded so!
However, i strongly disagree with the author that a 3D sound cannot be had from a CD based set up! I have listened to many in my limited experience, so I cannot fathom how the author concluded so!
Holographic soundstaging can certainly be had from CDs provided the rest of the chain is up to it. I guess the author is referring to his experience circa 1982.
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sachu888
Well-Known Member
Vinyl sound is different than CD.I never say Vinyls are better,but I prefer them
.I listen Cds only in car.
Regards,
Sachin
.I listen Cds only in car.Regards,
Sachin
An analog or digital set up sounds as good as the recording. How can one compare two recordings or mastering done by people from different generation, in different ambience, different attitude. I don't listen to CDs too often, but have heard enough of antidigital talks, both the format has their own merits, well mastered CDs also sound excellent, poor mastering issues can't be used to attack the digital formats, whoever says what digital audio is the future while analog will retain its fan base, I like both of them, some OSTs in CD some in LP, both the formats are to be enjoyed, nurtured and preserved
That is not relevant at all. I have no intention of setting up or using an analog system. I am very happy with my digital system, and whatever investments I will make will be on improving the digital system. For me the next step is multi-channel music.
If you remember from some of my posts the analog system I used extensively was my first system that has a Dual 606 with Ortofon Concorde cartridge, and a DIY amp and speaker system. But then, I don't go about deriding analog systems, do I?
I have chosen digital systems for various reasons including the fact that I have some 4TB of music, is extremely convenient, and sounds wonderful to me.
Cheers
I dont intend to start yet another analog vs digital debate knowing exactly where it will end up.
But I would like clear a simple confusion here:
3 dimensionality - 3 dimensionality of soundstage has nothing to do with 3 dimensionality of notes, instruments or voices. Soundstage is all about placement of notes, it is a special effect totally decided by the recording engineer on his console. It is very easy to create and record on any/most respectable media. Recreating that in the listening room is more a function of speaker placement, room acoustics, listening position, vibration control and such. Sound coming from top of the head or behind the listening chair is no big deal. Such stunts are so common with trance music, I dont know how many times I have heard it. To me it is simple gimmicks which normally is present in music with less substance (exceptions might be there). On the other hand 3 dimensionality of individual instruments and voices is a different subject. It is purely dependent on "resolution". It adds realism in true sense, as in what was actually recorded. This 3d ness is one of the important factor that helps us recognize and enjoy real instruments when heard live. It is not a special effect and in most cases is not decided by the recording engineer's imagination.
I have been fortunate lately to have experienced many top end digital playback systems. They were all nice and special in some way or the other, justifying their "high-end" status but one listen to a well setup high end vinyl setup easily clarifies why 1400 kbps data that goes into the CD is not enough. The 3 dimensionality of notes even on a simple RD Burman LP is so far ahead of a high quality Telarc or Chesky CD, it is simple to understand that all those high end players were doing their own special thing within a clear set of limitation. They cannot do much about it. In my experience the CD player which did best in recreating the dimensionality of notes was the Einstein "The last record player". But this CDP was not even close when we compared it to the Scheu Premier TT.
IMO considering soundstage effect as an important parameter to decide the greatness of a medium is like saying 100 kmph is a parameter to measure sports carshyeah:.
But I would like clear a simple confusion here:
3 dimensionality - 3 dimensionality of soundstage has nothing to do with 3 dimensionality of notes, instruments or voices. Soundstage is all about placement of notes, it is a special effect totally decided by the recording engineer on his console. It is very easy to create and record on any/most respectable media. Recreating that in the listening room is more a function of speaker placement, room acoustics, listening position, vibration control and such. Sound coming from top of the head or behind the listening chair is no big deal. Such stunts are so common with trance music, I dont know how many times I have heard it. To me it is simple gimmicks which normally is present in music with less substance (exceptions might be there). On the other hand 3 dimensionality of individual instruments and voices is a different subject. It is purely dependent on "resolution". It adds realism in true sense, as in what was actually recorded. This 3d ness is one of the important factor that helps us recognize and enjoy real instruments when heard live. It is not a special effect and in most cases is not decided by the recording engineer's imagination.
I have been fortunate lately to have experienced many top end digital playback systems. They were all nice and special in some way or the other, justifying their "high-end" status but one listen to a well setup high end vinyl setup easily clarifies why 1400 kbps data that goes into the CD is not enough. The 3 dimensionality of notes even on a simple RD Burman LP is so far ahead of a high quality Telarc or Chesky CD, it is simple to understand that all those high end players were doing their own special thing within a clear set of limitation. They cannot do much about it. In my experience the CD player which did best in recreating the dimensionality of notes was the Einstein "The last record player". But this CDP was not even close when we compared it to the Scheu Premier TT.
IMO considering soundstage effect as an important parameter to decide the greatness of a medium is like saying 100 kmph is a parameter to measure sports cars
hyeah:.reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
No matter what cd player you get, analog still wins in the fidelity stakes. I've heard very many decent quality cd players of late and atleast for me, a well setup turntable still wins!
ditto! but, digital has its strengths. but note for note, analogue rules. One has to hear it to believe it... hence I don't argue with people who disagree... especially people who do not have the time to audition, compare and then decide for themselves.
I think this is again going in the analog vs digital debate direction. Lets not do it, not that I dont enjoy it but we all know the end result. Lets keep it interesting by discussing mainly analogue until provoked
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
Yep, getting back to the original intention of the thread, it seems like stereophile has just separated its analog audio content onto this separate site.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Here's your three-dimensional sound stage. LEDR Imaging Test.
Have to confess that this, just in itself, astonished me --- because I previously thought (and have probably posted here) ) that stereo was absolutely 2D until given a fairly large helping hand from our imaginations. This test shows that it isn't. It also shows, at least in principle, that, so long as our ears can hear it, the electronic equipment is of less importance --- as I'm getting it on fairly modest stuff here.
It's a digital source, of course.
Vinyl LPs are beautiful. The equipment used to play them is also (from the humblest Pro-Ject up to the fance stuff) often a work of art and artful engineering. Lots of love for it for what it is, and for the fact that it is what my earliest, most earth-shaking, musical experiences came from --- because we had only that and tape. I'm glad it's not dead. It deserves a big place in the world, but not a throne.
It doesn't deserve a throne any more than the digital achievements of today are, in the future, going to be regarded as ultimate for ever.
Have to confess that this, just in itself, astonished me --- because I previously thought (and have probably posted here
) ) that stereo was absolutely 2D until given a fairly large helping hand from our imaginations. This test shows that it isn't. It also shows, at least in principle, that, so long as our ears can hear it, the electronic equipment is of less importance --- as I'm getting it on fairly modest stuff here.It's a digital source, of course.
Vinyl LPs are beautiful. The equipment used to play them is also (from the humblest Pro-Ject up to the fance stuff) often a work of art and artful engineering. Lots of love for it for what it is, and for the fact that it is what my earliest, most earth-shaking, musical experiences came from --- because we had only that and tape. I'm glad it's not dead. It deserves a big place in the world, but not a throne.
It doesn't deserve a throne any more than the digital achievements of today are, in the future, going to be regarded as ultimate for ever.
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