Fostex Thunderpants Orthodynamic Headphone-My impressions

[iaudio]

Ortho- this word,until a year back would have evoked a mental pictue of a doc in a white coat, who you went to when you broke your bones or had back pain due to excessive motorcycle riding.
But then head-fi,sachu, gurubhai,hifivision came along and I got to know that the word also denoted an exotic class of headphones, which used orthodynamic drivers.

A big thanks to Sachu who trusted me enough to loan this gem! My earlier experience with orthos was, a Yamaha YH2 another friend had been generous enough to loan.http://www.hifivision.com/audio-vid...adphones-all-things-planar-25.html#post172196
That had convinced me, these were something special.

Now, orthos in general, according to my limited gyaan on them, are power hungry, and I had only a nuforce u dac and my pioneer integrated amp hp out to do the job. Horribly inadequate, but not bad as far as loudness levels go. The only full size can I have with me for comparison is Audio Technica AD700 and that is what I have used to have a relative idea.

TP-Fostex 'Thunderpants'
AT-Audio Technica AD700

Build quality: The TPs look lovely with their wooden housing. The housing,headband and the cable(modded Mogami I guess) all look and feel great. It is far heavier than the AT.

The AT are built very decently but feel featherlight after the TPs. However this means that you dont strain your head or neck with it. Looks, are subjective, but I would anyday prefer the wooden TP to the purple(eeks) and gold AT color scheme.

Isolation: The TPs being closed with good earpads are quite comfortable to wear and isolate much better than the AT,prolonged use does cause heat and sweating though. The AT is supremely comfortable but doesnt isolate much.

The cable

The jack with 6.3mm adapator

How do they sound?
The Audio Technica AD700 are very capable headphones imo, and provide excellent vfm in their price bracket. There is good detail level, wide soundstage, spatiality etc.
It's just that the Fostex Thunderpants are awesome headphones, which have a much more classier presentation and bring to the table that much needed body to the music. Even with my mediocre amplification,the TPs had good detail/texture, very realistic mids and sounded fuller across the spectrum.

The one not so subtle difference between them is the bass, and that is where the AD700 lags behind significantly. The TPs have adequate bass which is never intrusive. Me likes!

After the TP the AT sounds a bit a bit forward, thin, unrefined and I miss the bass on some songs,to sum it up!

 

[iaudio]

Listening impressions:

Temptation-Diana Krall, Girl in The other Room

TP: Bass very well integrated,one of the best I have heard. Very natural vocals.

AT: Bass insufficient! But with good speed and rhythm. Vocals a bit forward but with lots of details. Cymbals sound brighter than TP.




Devdas theme-DEvdas OST

TP: Thunder has so much more texture.Far better separation from 3:23.Whip still lacked impact!Soundstage is wide.
AT: Thunder sounds like card paper being torn.Whip has bite but no impact. Solid imaging.


Dhan Dhan Dharti-Sonu Nigam:Rajneeti OST

TP: Sub bass, faltering of Sonu's voice at 'Booda aasma' clear.Vocals natural.Excellent bass but clouds the vocals a bit.

AT: Vocals forward, in your face in comparison with TP.
Faltering of voice more continuous. Bass light. Hence Vocals do not get overwhelmed.

Gambara-Arco Luz

TP: Guitar sounds a bit smoothed out, dull. Excellent imaging. Taut bass.

AT: Imaging not as clear,guitar has more bite.Whatever bass is present is good.

Khwab Jo-Shankar Mahadevan, Rahat Fateh Ali Khan : London Dreams OST

TP:Good dynamics, Shankars voice has more body, better space between Shankar and Rahat.
AT: Good dynamics with male vocals, intimate but lacking a bit of body. Imaging not spot on.

Fields of Gold-EVa Cassidy:Songbird

TP: Initially,when I heard this track it was unpleasantly sibilant! But on further listening sessions, sibilance was less.(NOTE: I had the same experience with some other tracks where the highs were biting in some instances while quite tame on a second listen!)
String much more fluid and with good body.
Female voice sounds more sweeter.Piano not too clear on both.

AT: Vocals sound slightly rougher. Piano shows slight lack of body.


Mars the bringer of War-Gustav Holst: The Planets
TP: too polite, until volume cranked really high. That these are not bass shy helps here in conveying the grandness.

AT: More forward presentation helps in delivering excitement but lacks refinement.Bass is lacking. Imaging not as concrete as TP.

Famous blue raincoat-Leonard Cohen: The Essential Leonard Cohen *mp3

TP:Better separation and body with Cohens voice.Tinkling of wind chimes faint but with varying depth.

AT: Cohens voice forward but with less body. Wind chimes in the beginning much more apparent.

Saraswati-U.Rajesh: Into the Light

Tp: Mandolin tone richer. Slight distortion from left side at 40 sec.

AT: Mandolin equally fast but tone not as rich.

Sorcerer-Michael Shrieve:Two Doors

TP: Good soundstage depth and width.Drums are blazing fast with good attacks. Cymbals are a bit piercing/biting.

AT: Drums have attack. Soundstage is wide but not as well defined.

Our River-George Carlo

TP: There is good good detail and male vocal sound very involving.Excellent percussion.

AT: Same detail of blowing into instrument, roughness around the edges of the notes, licking lips, inhaling etc is present with AT. Vocals sound good but slightly lack in body.

Teardrop-Massive Attack: Mezzanine

TP: This one definitely has more bass and produces a better 'poundin'/throbbing beat.
AT: The gradation of the throbbing beat is better as it builds up in intensity.

Time out-DAve Brubeck:Take Five

TP:Good detail and texture with the drums at 3:30 where the drums really steal the show accompanied by piano and bass.
AT: Cymbals have less body. Good texture with sax but tone not as good as the TP. Upfront presentation may not appeal to all.Equal detail level as former on drums and strings.


Fight of the Bull and Tiger-Chinese drums
TP: Good gradation and build of drum beats as they fall and rise at 3:50.
at: They sound similar but with definitely less bass.

 

[gurubhai]

Finally, the impressions have started coming in.
Good job as always by iaudio in describing both the headphones.

Its a bit unfair on the ATs to be compared to the venerable TPs.
The TPs though are probably being handicapped by the lack of a dedicated headphone setup.

 

[iaudio]

Gurubhai,thanks for looking!
Yep its not a.fair comparison! The ATs are out classed ny the fostex despite lack of a good amp. As for m1.i am just happy that I got to listen to these!

 

[sachi]

Glad you liked them Titus..Yeah these do benefit hugely with a headphone amp of the EHHA and beyond caliber.



Also, this particular TP isn't still completely worked out with repect to damping. It can get a little shouty, at least to my ears..i just didn't have the time to sort it out before sending it off to you all.

 

[BLASTO]

Buy a thermometer!
The upgrade fever may catch you soon. hyeah:

 

[iaudio]

Blasto, good one!

Sachi, yep I definitely liked them. About getting shouty, what perplexed me was that, it seemed different on different instances!

 

[gurubhai]

Hmm, there was this issue of TPs sound being dependent on how they are positioned on head & how the ports are positioned.
@ sachi : care for a reminder ?

 

[Brendon]

Nice one Titus !

I can't wait for the TPs to reach me now.

 

[sachi]

Just make sure you have a good seal and that the ports are not covered by the pads..the pads tend to do that from time to time..a tad annoying..i plan to fix that permanently after figuring out the damping scheme once and for al..but then again i might just sell off this TP and let someone else figure it out..

 

[Brendon]

My sleep is ruined today.

Still listening to the TPs when I should be fast asleep.

First Impressions.

The TPs sound thin, bass anemic and have barely enough volume for me. My $10 apple ibuds sound MUCH better than these.

That concludes the tests when the TPs are run directly out of my chinese portable fm radio. Next will run some tests from my Compass amp + Music streamer II Dac.

 

[iaudio]

Brendon, oh you got it! B$m, you were supposed to msg me! Enjoy.

Actually those few lines did give me a jolt.....

 

[esanthosh]

The TPs sound thin, bass anemic and have barely enough volume for me. My $10 apple ibuds sound MUCH better than these

I knew it! Since they suck, you can send it tomorrow to gurubhai and speed up the process of getting them to me :licklips:

That concludes the tests when the TPs are run directly out of my chinese portable fm radio. Next will run some tests from my Compass amp + Music streamer II Dac.

Oh! :sad:

 

[santhosh]

My sleep is ruined today.

Still listening to the TPs when I should be fast asleep.

First Impressions.

The TPs sound thin, bass anemic and have barely enough volume for me. My $10 apple ibuds sound MUCH better than these.

That concludes the tests when the TPs are run directly out of my chinese portable fm radio. Next will run some tests from my Compass amp + Music streamer II Dac.

lol...good one. You almost had me there:lol:.

 

[anm]

Brendon - headphones se maje lo, hum sab se nahi!

 

[Brendon]

@iaudio - Ah sorry dude, I wasnt expecting the TPs on Monday since at 7 pm when I left office the DTDC site was showing that it was still lying with the Ville parle branch. So I kinda got overexcited seeing them on my bed.

@esantosh, anm - Dont worry, Ill ship them to you even though I dont want to let these go !

Some more impressions -

These are not as difficult to drive compared to my other orthos YH-100 and HP-2s. I can listen to them directly out of my BlackBerry phone with sufficient volume. (No, I am not going to AB them with the ibuds again ! )

They are roughly as difficult to drive as my HD-650s and the Compass has no problems driving them properly.

Even with the rolled off bass and treble on the compass they still sound great. However these bad boys need a better amp like the EHHA.

The bass is definitely the best I have ever heard in a headphone and they have all the speed of an ortho driver. Mid range is also very nice and detailed are a bit upfront IMO. Treble seems to be the only real weakpoint but that is down to the Compass which has a rolled off treble. My impressions wont really be very valid with the rolled off Compass so ill try running them off my speaker amp after adding a 75 ohm impedance adapter. (Dont worry Sachu ill take proper precautions while doing this ! )

 

[Brendon]

Well first off a BIG thanks to Sachu for daring to send his headphones all the way to India and trusting so many complete strangers to take care of his expensive gear.

If only he knew how I treat my gear he would have informed Gurubhai to quietly drop my name from the loaner program !

And of course we cannot forget Gurubhai who started the ortho loaner program last year when he sent his YH-2s to us. :clapping:

First off some close up photos of this beauty.




















Testing equipment

DAC - Music Streamer II
Amps - Compass :sad: , Music Streamer II

Build quality and comfort

Build quality is simply beautiful ! The wood looks really gorgeous and has a great finish. Comfort wise the pads fit me well and they seal very well indeed. I can get lost in the music as there is little outside noise.

However all the dampning material used has increased the overall weight of the headphones and after an hour my neck can start paining due to the weight. However I would gladly do a lot of neck exercises if I could ever afford the TPs !

Sound

Caveat - This section is colored by the rolled off Compass amp so you may hear a different sound on your system

First off as I mentioned earlier, these aren't that difficult to drive compared to either of my two Yammies (YH-100 or HP-2). So as I found out later they sound better out of my Music Streamer II DAC compared to using my Compass as an amp.

Even out of the Compass I got an eargasm when I first heard the Thunderpants !

Bass
The bass is definitely the first thing that hits you. Its got lots of punch/impact, speed and it hits low. On the Compass the sub bass was not very audible but on the Music Streamer II the sub bass could be heard. The bass has got very got texture and never loses control even on complex passages. While I feel there is a bit of mid bass hump which gives a pleasing warm sound its neither excessively warm nor does the bass show itself in songs that do not call for bass. This is my reference as to how bass should sound.

Mids
The midrange is every bit as good as the bass and voices are smooth and detailed at the same time. On the Compass I felt the vocals were a bit forward. On switching to the music streamer I realized that's its practically dead on neutral and the amp was the culprit for the forward mids. The midrange sounds thick and has a warm tone that sounds very pleasing. There is no particular emphasis on either male or female voices.

Treble
On the Compass treble was definitely the weak point for me (weak as in comparison to the mids and treble that is.).The treble was very smooth, clear and grain free with the right amount of sparkle and shimmer to make cymbals sound natural without causing sibilance or harshness. Cymbals on the HD650 sounds unnatural and muted in comparison. On shifting to the Music Streamer the treble roll off was less noticeable but for sure the treble is not the main focus of the sound and its slightly shy of dead neutral. Those who love a lot of treble sparkle will be a tad disappointed. Those who love a smooth fatigue free treble with lots of detailing will be very happy.

Soundstage/Separation
The soundstage is amazing for a closed can. Its pretty wide to give you an out of head experience. Imaging is also excellent but is not the best I have heard in a closed can. With the Compass I can tell that its a closed can as I can hear some blind spots between the width and height (45 degree angles from your left ear and right ear). However those blind spots are missing with the Music Streamer and frankly I can be fooled if someone blind folds me and tells me its an open can. Instrument separation is also above average and notes do not bleed into one another. I think the ortho driver speed really helps in presenting a good instrument separation.

Comparison with other cans

1. HD650 - These have been my favourite cans for years and they are still my most used cans even though my YH-100s sound better since I find them most comfortable. There are a lot of similarities between the two since they both have a full/thick sound with the mids and bass as the main focus. Over here the TPs easily beat the HD650s w.r.t to bass as they hit lower, add more punch and the bass has more speed than the HD650s. The mid range of both are excellent but somehow I still love the HD650s mids and I would give this one to the HD650s. Treble is a no contest as the HD650 has a much more noticeable treble roll off and cymbals sound unnatural and muted on the HD650. Soundstage goes to the HD650 since its an open sound and has a more natural soundstage without offering a wider soundstage compared to the TPs. However instrument separation and imaging goes to the TPs are the HD650s don't have nearly the same speed and transient response compared to the TPs. Transparency/Detailing is very good on the Sennheisers but IMO the TPs are a notch above.

2. Denon D5000
These are closer competitors considering they are both closed cans. Comfort wise the Denons come top due to the lesser weight and lower clamping force. Treble is also more extended on the Denons and have some sparkle and crispness that is less prominent in the TPs. However for everything else I prefer the TPs. Bass quantity goes to the Denons but it sounds flabby and slow and it is simply outclassed by the speed of the TPs. Mids are recessed on the Denons and while detailing is similar the fuller mids of the TPs are more enjoyable IMO. Soundstage wise both are evenly matched in both width and imaging with the TPs taking a slender lead over the Denons. Transparency/Detailing are however a little better on the TPs.

3. Yamaha YH-100
I saved this for last since both are modded orthos. My pair was modded by dbel84 who spent a long time to get them to sound as neutral as possible. The main differences between the TPs and the YH-100s is that the YH-100s are supra aural and they are not truly closed but have a few vents making them semi-vented cans. The main similarities are the ortho speed that both have. The TPs have a fuller sound compared to the YH-100s which sound thinner in comparison. Bass hits harder and has more impact on the TPs but the YH-100s hits as low and has greater speed compared to the TPs. However if asked to pick which I prefer I would pick the TPs.
Mid range of both are detailed and smooth but the fuller sound of TPs is IMO a bit more pleasing. Treble is where the YH-100s show their stuff as treble has more sparkle and crispness and seems more effortless and extended compared to the TPs even on my Compass. However while the TPs have zero sibilance the YH-100s have a little bit of sibilance if listening at a loud volume. Detailing and transparency are more or less equal on both phones though the YH-100 pretends to have more details since the treble is more prominent compared to the TPs. Soundstage wise the TPs have a slightly wider presentation but the YH-100s win in height and imaging. Instrument separation on the YH-100s is a hair better than the TPs. Both are capable headphones and rather evenly matched but if asked to pick one I would pick the TPs for my kind of music. However while I could run the TP with the Music Streamer I could not do the same with the YH-100s since the Streamer hasn't got nearly enough juice to provide any decent sort of volume. So maybe on a better more neutral amp the YH-100s could offer a better performance.

I wish I had some more time with the TPs (maybe a couple of years more ! hyeah: ) and its definitely with a heavy heart that I start to pack these up. :sad:

 

[gurubhai]

Its time to put my thoughts on 'Thunderpants'

First of all, a big thanks to sachi, who bravely sent these headphones all across india to help us get a first hand experience of the TP sound.

Source: Xonar STX

Amp : EHHA rev. A

Build quaility: Beautiful wood work, very sturdy, love the simple but effective head strap solution devised by smeggy. Comfort is great with the O2 pads.

Soundstage: Very good. The stock T50RP is already better than most vintage ortho in this area & TPs even manage to sound a shade more spacious.Good width & depth.

Imaging : Again very good though not quite the best I have heard in a ortho.Most likely it is a trade-off of closed cup design. Still better than most dynamics I have heard.

Treble : Excellent balance here. The treble is just right for my tastes - neither warm nor too bright & there is no lack of extension at the top. Great job here.

Bass : Good. The bass is well damped, fast & textured. However despite the excellent seal from O2 pads, the sub-bass does roll off. Most people would find the bass to be perfectly adequate, its just that I am a bit spoilt in this area with the headphones that I currently own.

Mids :Good. I have never been too fond of T50Rp mids(among the orthos, they get the least love from me). The TP housing attempts to eliminate these issues but fails to completely rectify them. There are a few residual peaks espcially in the upper mids & slightky exaggerated female vocal sibilants.


Note: Just noticed that my review may appear a bit too critical of TPs. It certainly wasn't the intention since this is indeed a vey fine sounding can overall. Its just that having been modding orthos for past couple of years, picking up the faults comes easier to me rather than vexing eloquent praise.

 

[Brendon]

I had been waiting for your impressions.

Wish I knew what sub bass was. My Compass amp rolls off early by around 60 hz and so I hardly hear anything down there no matter what headphone I use.

Though I am surprised that you found sibilance. I am very sensitive to Sibilance and I dont recall hearing anything in the time I had them. Probably my Compass has a dip in that region which coloured my observation.

 

[gurubhai]

^I meant that they slightly exaggerated the sibilance inherent in the tracks probably due to some peaks in the upper mids. "Eva Cassidy - Songbird " is one such album.