anm
Well-Known Member
I did not try them with portables, as I have a "belief" that orthos need more power. With my ehha amp, I could drive them pretty well and bass was deep and layered. They quite good headphones actually.
Fostex Thunderpants Orthodynamic Headphone-My impressions
- Thread starter iaudio
- Start date
They sound OK through portables. My HD650s also sound OK through portables. But they get a good deal better with an amp. Even with my rolled off at both ends Compass they sounded really nice and I am surprised Esantosh didn't even try them with his Maverick.
Frankly the TPs were just what I look for in a headphone - No harshness, nice meaty mids and nice non boomy bass. Only the weight and most importantly the price keeps me from buying the TPs.
So now how do we send them back to Sachu ?
Frankly the TPs were just what I look for in a headphone - No harshness, nice meaty mids and nice non boomy bass. Only the weight and most importantly the price keeps me from buying the TPs.
So now how do we send them back to Sachu ?
These are just Santhosh's first impression guys,from his portable setup, he is really gotten the writing bug since last few months.
I think we can expect daily updates from him including comparisons of his various setups.:licklips:
I think we can expect daily updates from him including comparisons of his various setups.:licklips:
anm
Well-Known Member
yeah, the weight and the price. Brendon are you thinking of offloading your yh 100? I am in the queue.
esanthosh
Well-Known Member
gurubhai is right! I just wanted to start on a different note
. Barring tomorrow, which is a scheduled maintenance power shutdown (apart from numerous interruptions which are unscheduled ), I should be updating this thread whenever I can. It's not every day that you get a TP. So, why not run it through all the different sources while you are at it? These are just Santhosh's first impression guys,from his portable setup, he is really gotten the writing bug since last few months.
I think we can expect daily updates from him including comparisons of his various setups.:licklips:
Ah I thought this was his final review !
I guess he really likes writing impressions and reviews !!!
esanthosh
Well-Known Member
Not much today. Briefly compared TP via uDAC-1, uDAC-2 and HRT MS2 -> Maverick D1. Will post detailed impressions tomorrow as I have a backup job running on the PC which is taking too long to complete .
Roughly, this is how I thought about them (could be inaccurate as I did not even A/B them properly)
With uDAC-1, TPs pick up the bass bump and forward mids of uDAC-1. With uDAC-2, I heard a bit more bass extension, mids were a bit more detailed and appeared slightly thinner, but I had this feeling that lushness was missing a bit. With the MS2-D1 combo, I felt that sound stage was finally beginning to feel spacious. It had lush mids, which carried both body as well as more details than the other two. The treble was finally a bit more sparkling. The overall sound appeared more refined than either of the uDACs. But the bass extension I observed with uDAC-2 was missing.
Will update this post with proper A/B/C comparisons tomorrow night. As of now, take it with a pinch of salt. An impression a day keeps me awake in the day, so with today's quota somewhat satisfied, I'll sleep peacefully
. Roughly, this is how I thought about them (could be inaccurate as I did not even A/B them properly)
With uDAC-1, TPs pick up the bass bump and forward mids of uDAC-1. With uDAC-2, I heard a bit more bass extension, mids were a bit more detailed and appeared slightly thinner, but I had this feeling that lushness was missing a bit. With the MS2-D1 combo, I felt that sound stage was finally beginning to feel spacious. It had lush mids, which carried both body as well as more details than the other two. The treble was finally a bit more sparkling. The overall sound appeared more refined than either of the uDACs. But the bass extension I observed with uDAC-2 was missing.
Will update this post with proper A/B/C comparisons tomorrow night. As of now, take it with a pinch of salt. An impression a day keeps me awake in the day, so with today's quota somewhat satisfied, I'll sleep peacefully
esanthosh
Well-Known Member
Introduction
After two hours of sweat, fighting off sleep and lot of plugging and unplugging later, here's my impressions of the Thunderpants with various sources
Clip+ (Vol: 0) -> iBasso T3 Portable Amp (Vol: 7, No gain switches on)
Bass has good quantity, texture with a slight mid-bass hump. It's more smooth and rounded and does not have much impact. It's not as extended either.
Midrange is warm and not as micro detailed.
Vocals are centered (in width), but are placed a little behind (from front). There's slight hint of sibilance (in tracks where vocal sibilance is present in the recording), but it's not harsh. Both male and female vocals sound good.
Treble has decent sparkle and is in balance with the rest of the spectrum.
Sound Stage is not much wider than a good IEM and the height is closer to Ortofon e-Q5's sound stage height. Imaging is good. The presentation overall is very smooth in character. This makes listening for longer sessions non-fatiguing.
Setup for DAC and Sound Card
For the rest of the session, I used the following setup:
All the DACs (uDAC-1, uDAC-2 and HRT Music Streamer II) were connected to the HTPC via NuForce Impulse 0.5m USB cable. This was done to avoid any differences that cables 'might' make, though I am a bit skeptical about USB cables making a huge difference. Since I got repeated "device could not be loaded" errors when trying to use Kernel Streaming, I chose Direct Sound for all the devices. Though I'm not sure how much this affects the final sound output, at least all DACs and the sound card are tested under similar conditions.
fooBar v1.0.1's volume was set to -17dB, all USB DACs had their Volume set to 100% in Windows. I left the output at 24-bits for all the DACs + Sound card.
uDAC-1 at 2'o clock
Bass quantity is less than (hereafter whenever I mention Clip+, I mean the Clip+ -> T3 combo) Clip+. Bass is even more softer, loses some texture and tightness, but is slightly more extended. Don't expect a sub-bass rumble though!
Mids are forward compared to Clip+ and loses the warmth and some of the thickness. The tonality shifts a bit towards neutral from the warm zone.
Treble has a bit more sparkle and is presented a bit more aggressively. Cymbals do not become harsh either, just a bit more hard hitting. Could be a bump somewhere.
While with Clip+, sibilance is smoothened to a large extent, it's present aplenty here. Imaging gets slightly better, though sound stage gains are minimal. uDAC-1 is a bit more airier in presentation. The timbre is not as good as Clip+.
uDAC-2 at 2'o clock
Bass quantity is better than uDAC-1. With both uDACs, I felt that the bass is not as filled/rounded as Clip+. Like uDAC-1, uDAC-2's bass too remains on the softer side. The bass is more tight than uDAC-1, but falls short of Clip+'s tightness. Bass is a slight bit more extended than uDAC-1.
Mids are placed slightly forward than Clip+ and almost similar to uDAC-1. Clarity is better than uDAC-1. The mids are warm and the overall presentation is similar to Clip+. The notes are thicker than uDAC-1, but thinner than Clip+. Timbre is better than uDAC-1, but does not approach Clip+ levels.
Treble is not as sparkling as uDAC-1, but quite similar to Clip+.
Both uDACs fell a bit short of being engaging as Clip+. uDAC-2 is much better with the TP than uDAC-1. Imaging is quite similar to uDAC-1.
HRT Music Streamer II -> Analog In -> Maverick D1 (Audio-GD Sun Opamp)
I am not sure how much role D1's circuitry plays here. Is it bypassing Analog In directly? Does the Opamp have anything to do with the signal?
The first thing I observed is the pick-up in speed. It's as if I came from another IEM to DBA-02. All parts of the spectrum get benefit from this speed.
Bass has a bit more mid-bass and almost on par or perhaps a tad more extension than uDAC-2. The roll-off at lowest lows remains, so all these 'extensions' are slight and hardly noticeable during casual listening. The bass quantity is much better. Of all the sources, bass has impact only with this combo.
Mids are not warm, but lush, a bit more organic. They are positioned similar to Clip+, rather than being forward like uDACs. Notes are thinner though. Good timbre and very good level of detail. For a few minutes, the details were a little overwhelming for me to process. It could either be due to dynamic range compression or my brain getting used to the increase in speed. Vocals though got slightly lost behind the instruments at times.
Treble has good sparkle, but is not as 'hot' as uDAC-1.
There is a bit of gain in width, but not too much with height with the sound stage. Imaging, though improved slightly (the difference is not huge) over the uDACs still remains in the "good but not great" territory for me.
Asus Essence STX ({2 x 49710HA on Browndog Adapter} -> ?)
Going back and forth between STX and MS2 was a PITA as TP's 3.5mm plug was in 'love' with the 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter I used with STX i.e., It won't come off without it and I had to waste some valuable seconds unplugging the adapter, plugging into D1, insert the adapter, search by feeling the sockets of STX and connect back.
Bass of STX has less mid-bass quantity when compared to MS2 combo. It does not carry the impact as MS2 and is much more closer to Clip+ in this respect. When I switched to STX soon after I had finished MS2 combo, I felt the bass was a bit muddy. But repeated back and forth, I did not feel that way.
The sound stage, the speed are similar to MS2, while the midrange treble and presentation is more closer to Clip+. It's as sibilant as uDAC-1 though!
Going back and forth between the two, I felt the notes on STX are a bit more rounded than MS2. With treble, MS2 has better sparkle. For the rest, differences between Clip+->T3 and MS2->D1 apply to STX as well.
Added: I did try MS2 -> Bravo V2 (with Mullard tube). Within the first 5 mins, I lost right side a bit, though it got restored within a second. Later, I started hearing clicks on the right side. I can be a bit adventurous at times, but I was not willing to take chances with the TP. So, Bravo V2 has been shelved. If I can locate the source of the problem before sending off TPs, I might try it again. But there are a few more things to try out after which I'll stop writing and start spending more time listening to music until shipping out.
Conclusion
Combining TP with various PC related sources, I found MS2 -> D1 to be the best of the lot for my tastes, Clip+ still rules and STX is somewhat similar, uDAC-2 and uDAC-1 follow after them.
Will try TP with the rest of the sources tomorrow.
After two hours of sweat, fighting off sleep and lot of plugging and unplugging later, here's my impressions of the Thunderpants with various sources
Clip+ (Vol: 0) -> iBasso T3 Portable Amp (Vol: 7, No gain switches on)
Bass has good quantity, texture with a slight mid-bass hump. It's more smooth and rounded and does not have much impact. It's not as extended either.
Midrange is warm and not as micro detailed.
Vocals are centered (in width), but are placed a little behind (from front). There's slight hint of sibilance (in tracks where vocal sibilance is present in the recording), but it's not harsh. Both male and female vocals sound good.
Treble has decent sparkle and is in balance with the rest of the spectrum.
Sound Stage is not much wider than a good IEM and the height is closer to Ortofon e-Q5's sound stage height. Imaging is good. The presentation overall is very smooth in character. This makes listening for longer sessions non-fatiguing.
Setup for DAC and Sound Card
For the rest of the session, I used the following setup:
All the DACs (uDAC-1, uDAC-2 and HRT Music Streamer II) were connected to the HTPC via NuForce Impulse 0.5m USB cable. This was done to avoid any differences that cables 'might' make, though I am a bit skeptical about USB cables making a huge difference. Since I got repeated "device could not be loaded" errors when trying to use Kernel Streaming, I chose Direct Sound for all the devices. Though I'm not sure how much this affects the final sound output, at least all DACs and the sound card are tested under similar conditions.
fooBar v1.0.1's volume was set to -17dB, all USB DACs had their Volume set to 100% in Windows. I left the output at 24-bits for all the DACs + Sound card.
uDAC-1 at 2'o clock
Bass quantity is less than (hereafter whenever I mention Clip+, I mean the Clip+ -> T3 combo) Clip+. Bass is even more softer, loses some texture and tightness, but is slightly more extended. Don't expect a sub-bass rumble though!
Mids are forward compared to Clip+ and loses the warmth and some of the thickness. The tonality shifts a bit towards neutral from the warm zone.
Treble has a bit more sparkle and is presented a bit more aggressively. Cymbals do not become harsh either, just a bit more hard hitting. Could be a bump somewhere.
While with Clip+, sibilance is smoothened to a large extent, it's present aplenty here. Imaging gets slightly better, though sound stage gains are minimal. uDAC-1 is a bit more airier in presentation. The timbre is not as good as Clip+.
uDAC-2 at 2'o clock
Bass quantity is better than uDAC-1. With both uDACs, I felt that the bass is not as filled/rounded as Clip+. Like uDAC-1, uDAC-2's bass too remains on the softer side. The bass is more tight than uDAC-1, but falls short of Clip+'s tightness. Bass is a slight bit more extended than uDAC-1.
Mids are placed slightly forward than Clip+ and almost similar to uDAC-1. Clarity is better than uDAC-1. The mids are warm and the overall presentation is similar to Clip+. The notes are thicker than uDAC-1, but thinner than Clip+. Timbre is better than uDAC-1, but does not approach Clip+ levels.
Treble is not as sparkling as uDAC-1, but quite similar to Clip+.
Both uDACs fell a bit short of being engaging as Clip+. uDAC-2 is much better with the TP than uDAC-1. Imaging is quite similar to uDAC-1.
HRT Music Streamer II -> Analog In -> Maverick D1 (Audio-GD Sun Opamp)
I am not sure how much role D1's circuitry plays here. Is it bypassing Analog In directly? Does the Opamp have anything to do with the signal?
The first thing I observed is the pick-up in speed. It's as if I came from another IEM to DBA-02. All parts of the spectrum get benefit from this speed.
Bass has a bit more mid-bass and almost on par or perhaps a tad more extension than uDAC-2. The roll-off at lowest lows remains, so all these 'extensions' are slight and hardly noticeable during casual listening. The bass quantity is much better. Of all the sources, bass has impact only with this combo.
Mids are not warm, but lush, a bit more organic. They are positioned similar to Clip+, rather than being forward like uDACs. Notes are thinner though. Good timbre and very good level of detail. For a few minutes, the details were a little overwhelming for me to process. It could either be due to dynamic range compression or my brain getting used to the increase in speed. Vocals though got slightly lost behind the instruments at times.
Treble has good sparkle, but is not as 'hot' as uDAC-1.
There is a bit of gain in width, but not too much with height with the sound stage. Imaging, though improved slightly (the difference is not huge) over the uDACs still remains in the "good but not great" territory for me.
Asus Essence STX ({2 x 49710HA on Browndog Adapter} -> ?)
Going back and forth between STX and MS2 was a PITA as TP's 3.5mm plug was in 'love' with the 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter I used with STX i.e., It won't come off without it and I had to waste some valuable seconds unplugging the adapter, plugging into D1, insert the adapter, search by feeling the sockets of STX and connect back.
Bass of STX has less mid-bass quantity when compared to MS2 combo. It does not carry the impact as MS2 and is much more closer to Clip+ in this respect. When I switched to STX soon after I had finished MS2 combo, I felt the bass was a bit muddy. But repeated back and forth, I did not feel that way.
The sound stage, the speed are similar to MS2, while the midrange treble and presentation is more closer to Clip+. It's as sibilant as uDAC-1 though!
Going back and forth between the two, I felt the notes on STX are a bit more rounded than MS2. With treble, MS2 has better sparkle. For the rest, differences between Clip+->T3 and MS2->D1 apply to STX as well.
Added: I did try MS2 -> Bravo V2 (with Mullard tube). Within the first 5 mins, I lost right side a bit, though it got restored within a second. Later, I started hearing clicks on the right side. I can be a bit adventurous at times, but I was not willing to take chances with the TP. So, Bravo V2 has been shelved. If I can locate the source of the problem before sending off TPs, I might try it again. But there are a few more things to try out after which I'll stop writing and start spending more time listening to music until shipping out.
Conclusion
Combining TP with various PC related sources, I found MS2 -> D1 to be the best of the lot for my tastes, Clip+ still rules and STX is somewhat similar, uDAC-2 and uDAC-1 follow after them.
Will try TP with the rest of the sources tomorrow.
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esanthosh
Well-Known Member
Frequent and random power cuts have virtually made it impossible for me to listen to TPs for the last two days. I hope I can get sometime tonight. Regular scheduled power cut just went up from 2 hrs a day to 3 hrs a few days ago. But the unscheduled cuts during night time are causing even more trouble. On Sunday, every time I took the TPs out for a listen, power went out within a song or two. By the 3rd such power cut, I got fed up and gave up
Have we decided upon how to send these back to sachi? I'd be happy if I can keep them for a couple more days for listening though.
Have we decided upon how to send these back to sachi? I'd be happy if I can keep them for a couple more days for listening though.
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sachi
Active Member
whatever method you guys decide on is fine by me. Just think of it as your own headphone that you are sending and use the carrier and service that you would want to be used.
Thanks for all the impressions, this has certainly given me some feedback on where the TPs are falling short. It seems i am largely in agreement with the views echoed by you all. The mids can be slightly sibilant and too in your face at times. The low frequencies just don't extend as low as one would want.
Thanks for all the impressions, this has certainly given me some feedback on where the TPs are falling short. It seems i am largely in agreement with the views echoed by you all. The mids can be slightly sibilant and too in your face at times. The low frequencies just don't extend as low as one would want.
sachi
Active Member
unless if someone wants to buy it from me for 500$..yes..please send it back to the US. I am PMing gurubhai with my address. I will copy esantosh as well since he is in possesion. Santosh take another day or two more if you need to in order to finish listening to the TP before shipping them out.
esanthosh
Well-Known Member
sachi,
I thought of sending the TPs tomorrow, but due to certain circumstances would not be able to. So, I'd send them definitely by Monday and update you.
I thought of sending the TPs tomorrow, but due to certain circumstances would not be able to. So, I'd send them definitely by Monday and update you.
esanthosh
Well-Known Member
Re: My Initial Impressions
Sorry! I missed this question all the while. I am certainly was not talking in terms of headphones. As mentioned, I am not a headphone guy at all. But, I was equating it to 'what if an IEM had the same signature' and comparing it to my other IEMs (which is the next sentence below it). I mentioned that TPs would belong in the top-tier, but won't be my favorite. TPs do several things very well, but I felt that there's potential to be a bit better. I tried, but could not translate my feelings into exact words that would make sense for you. The best way to put it is - "This is very good, but I guess there should be something better" - a sense of 'something' lacking from my definition of great. If I found the TPs to be close to perfect, that thought would not even have crossed my mind.
I did compare TP to my budget headphones (AD-700, Superlux HD668B, Alessandro MS1i). Let's just say - to save whatever little was left in their pride, I had to stop this uneven comparison within minuteshyeah:
Sorry! I missed this question all the while. I am certainly was not talking in terms of headphones. As mentioned, I am not a headphone guy at all. But, I was equating it to 'what if an IEM had the same signature' and comparing it to my other IEMs (which is the next sentence below it). I mentioned that TPs would belong in the top-tier, but won't be my favorite. TPs do several things very well, but I felt that there's potential to be a bit better. I tried, but could not translate my feelings into exact words that would make sense for you. The best way to put it is - "This is very good, but I guess there should be something better" - a sense of 'something' lacking from my definition of great. If I found the TPs to be close to perfect, that thought would not even have crossed my mind.
I did compare TP to my budget headphones (AD-700, Superlux HD668B, Alessandro MS1i). Let's just say - to save whatever little was left in their pride, I had to stop this uneven comparison within minutes
hyeah:I kinda' expected that from you since I know that you like a bit tippped up top end.
A year back, I too was guilty of enjoying similar excess & my modded headphones during that period reflect that.Over time, I have tried hundreds of variations of treble on my orthos & that treble balance is pretty close to that of thunderpants.
Full marks to smeggy & sachi in that regards.
I thought that bass too would be fine for most people(not me, but then I am spoilt)
The thing that didn't really do it for me was the 'mids' . I expect my orthos to have 'mids to die for' & in that regard thunderpants fell short.
A year back, I too was guilty of enjoying similar excess & my modded headphones during that period reflect that.Over time, I have tried hundreds of variations of treble on my orthos & that treble balance is pretty close to that of thunderpants.
Full marks to smeggy & sachi in that regards.
I thought that bass too would be fine for most people(not me, but then I am spoilt
)The thing that didn't really do it for me was the 'mids' . I expect my orthos to have 'mids to die for' & in that regard thunderpants fell short.
I guess I was the only one who really liked the TPs.
I didn't miss the sub bass as much of my music does not have a lot of low frequencies and I liked the slightly warm signature.
The smooth treble was also something I appreciated since I am very susceptible to sibilance and harshness.
I was contemplating buying the TPs but my HD650s have a pretty similar sound though a tad less detailed compared to the TPs. What sealed the deal was the comfort of the HD650s as I found the TPs a bit too heavy. Plus the mid range of the HD650 was slightly better and I find Open headphones to have a more natural soundstage which I like.
But all in all I really enjoyed my time with them. Just wished I could have tried them with the EHHA as my Senns have really improved with the EHHA.
I didn't miss the sub bass as much of my music does not have a lot of low frequencies and I liked the slightly warm signature.
The smooth treble was also something I appreciated since I am very susceptible to sibilance and harshness.
I was contemplating buying the TPs but my HD650s have a pretty similar sound though a tad less detailed compared to the TPs. What sealed the deal was the comfort of the HD650s as I found the TPs a bit too heavy. Plus the mid range of the HD650 was slightly better and I find Open headphones to have a more natural soundstage which I like.
But all in all I really enjoyed my time with them. Just wished I could have tried them with the EHHA as my Senns have really improved with the EHHA.
grubyhalo
New Member
Sorry! I missed this question all the while. I am certainly was not talking in terms of headphones. As mentioned, I am not a headphone guy at all. But, I was equating it to 'what if an IEM had the same signature' and comparing it to my other IEMs (which is the next sentence below it). I mentioned that TPs would belong in the top-tier, but won't be my favorite. TPs do several things very well, but I felt that there's potential to be a bit better. I tried, but could not translate my feelings into exact words that would make sense for you. The best way to put it is - "This is very good, but I guess there should be something better" - a sense of 'something' lacking from my definition of great. If I found the TPs to be close to perfect, that thought would not even have crossed my mind.
I did compare TP to my budget headphones (AD-700, Superlux HD668B, Alessandro MS1i). Let's just say - to save whatever little was left in their pride, I had to stop this uneven comparison within minutes
Thanks for this, makes sense.
This is exactly what I was hoping to find out, thank you. At $75, the Fostex presents a very inviting price point to begin with but the cost of the mods to make it a 'TP' seems a little daunting to me. Especially so considering that I have the 650's already. It just might make more sense to me to do a cable mod and upgrade the amp (CTH?) to improve the performance of the 650's...
^^ Well I have no idea how much or how long it will take to damm a Fostex hp to make it into a TP but I can tell you that a HD650 scales very well with better equipment. When I upgraded the Compass amp I found a slight difference with the YH-100 orthos but I found a very noticeable difference with the HD650.
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