Good Stereo System

Hi All,

I'm very new to this forum and request help from all the experts here to get a stereo system for my home. I have a Samsung LCD and a Sonodyne 5.1 Genie system (Have monster cables for the front 2 speakers), but not entirely convinced with the quality of stereo output- specially the depth of sound. I listen to a lot different music, with instrumental dominating a lot (say Yanni, Kenny G etc, also Old Rock like Eagles, Pink Floyd etc).

I like a balanced output with good depth. My budget is around Rs. 1 lac (+ or - 15000 is fine).

Can you please sugget- A 2 channel amplifier+ Speaker system.

Thanks,
Madhu




Hello Madhu

I was in the same situation a couple of months ago , i finally purchased Dali Ikon 2 , marantz CDP and Amplifier and the cost came around Rs.1,20,000/- ( slightly above my budget ) , But i am enjoying the music better then my old system ( dont ask me which system ) . As suggested by other forum members shortlist your choice and then stick on to that . But dont take too much time and dont audition all the product you see , in the end you will not buy anything.

goodluck

Vijay.
 
Hello Madhu

I was in the same situation a couple of months ago , i finally purchased Dali Ikon 2 , marantz CDP and Amplifier and the cost came around Rs.1,20,000/- ( slightly above my budget ) , But i am enjoying the music better then my old system ( dont ask me which system ) . As suggested by other forum members shortlist your choice and then stick on to that . But dont take too much time and dont audition all the product you see , in the end you will not buy anything.

goodluck

Vijay.

Which CDp you finalised?model no?
 
There seems to be a lot of importance on jitter, re-clocking, etc while this is important, it will take a very revealing high end system to actually make out such a significant difference. The biggest difference between two DACs is philosophy and execution, this is what will determine the sonic signature. The transports - PC or DVD, etc will not matter so much. From reading this, it seems that the DACmagic and the CA640/740 have the same DAC chips, pls - this no way says whether one is better sounding than the other. What matters is how its executed assuming the sonic philosophy is the same - what components are used, the quality, etc. Whoever is interested in buying should listen to it make sure there is synergy with other components in the chain and then make a decision. Generally design philosophies being the same (same chip, same company, etc) a DAC may have a "better" (or more closer to their goal) sounding unit than a CDP, why? simply because they may not make the same compromises that they do on a CDP whether its PSU related or layout/shielding, component quality, etc after all they are working keeping a budget in mind.

cheers
[email protected]


Sorry, Sridhar, I somehow missed your post. Two things I have understood from your post, and one I have not.

The two things I understood are (i) the philosophy and the execution part that you talked about and (ii) DAC being better than the comparably priced CDP. I think I agree with you on both those issues.

Now the one I have not understood: You seem to have suggested that unless one has a very high end and quite a revealing system, the differences between different transports (such as the one between my Sony DVDP and my CA 740c) should not be detectable.

Actually I would tend to agree with you even here, but in practice when I experimented with both the transports (the 740c being used as the DAC), I found the sound from the 740c (being used as the CDP) slightly better, as I have already described above in my earlier post.

Everybody seems to have a different explanation for it. Venkat (please see his post above) thinks it is the Sony DVDP transport that could not read all the frequencies from the CD. Gopi (see his post also) thinks it may be the jitter introduced by the poorer transport on the Sony. Now you think there should not be much of a difference between the two unless the rest of the system is really high class.

Well the rest of my system is not, by a long way, a high end system. The amp is a budget amp (NAD 325bee), however my 19 year old Canton Karat 60 speakers (while not high end) are reasonable. Bought for 2000 DM in Germany in 1989, I have not heard anything close to them within a lakh here in India (have not heard BE-718, but they are above a lakh, aren't they). (In a separate thread I may start a discussion on these speakers with whatever technical specification I have about them and l would invite suggestions about a better amp).

Based on your post and the high end revealing systems, I should not hear the difference between the two transports then. But I do.

I know I am asking a difficult question, because none of you are actually not hearing the difference I am talking about. But since all reviewers of CDPs and DACs these days, even for budget systems, are talking about jitter and manufacturers are also claiming all sorts of procedures to get rid of them, may be we should think about these things more and try to make some kind of objective judgment on these things more than just hearsay.
 
After all this talk about sampling and re-sampling and clocking being so critical in physical circuit paths, I am a tad surprised that people are also confident that transporting digtal music over wireless on "thin air" to a DAC is as good as an audiophile CDP.

If it weren't for a CDP, I would have gone for the Oppo 980H or 981H Universal DVDP to pair with the Beresford, but I realized I would forever suffered a dreadful nagging feeling wondering if I made a mistake not buying even a budget audiophile CDP, what I was missing etc etc. Hence I got a Marantz cd6002. (hearing the first hand review that the 640c wasn't as pleasant as the cd6002 gave me some relief too - I keep wondering how "that one" would have "improved" my sound :) ). Now that I have a CDP, I am open to experimentation and don't mind spending more on a DAC with USB just to find out how it goes - esp since I find changing CDs every 7/8 songs painfully boring (more so because only 3 songs out of 7 on average I find listen-able on a commercial CD). Its different with handling Vinyl records, charming feel and experience, but not with CDs. I think (like someone pointed out) the difference won't be audible on my budget cd6002>Nad c325BEE > Wharfedale 9.2 system.


Cheers
 
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Asit
sorry I missed your post and just saw it today after the thread resurfaced. What you did is to take an external transport and run it through your CA 740 DAC while comparing it to the CA 740 CDP. Meaning one is used with an external CD transport going through a coax cable into this DAC while the other configuration is an all in one built in, am I right?
What I said is not that you cant make out a difference, what I said/meant is that two different DACs (assuming their design is different) may be further apart than using two different transports on the same DAC.

cheers
p.s. and oh yes, the Be-718 is under a Lakh for a few more days :)


Sorry, Sridhar, I somehow missed your post. Two things I have understood from your post, and one I have not.

The two things I understood are (i) the philosophy and the execution part that you talked about and (ii) DAC being better than the comparably priced CDP. I think I agree with you on both those issues.

Now the one I have not understood: You seem to have suggested that unless one has a very high end and quite a revealing system, the differences between different transports (such as the one between my Sony DVDP and my CA 740c) should not be detectable.

Actually I would tend to agree with you even here, but in practice when I experimented with both the transports (the 740c being used as the DAC), I found the sound from the 740c (being used as the CDP) slightly better, as I have already described above in my earlier post.

Everybody seems to have a different explanation for it. Venkat (please see his post above) thinks it is the Sony DVDP transport that could not read all the frequencies from the CD. Gopi (see his post also) thinks it may be the jitter introduced by the poorer transport on the Sony. Now you think there should not be much of a difference between the two unless the rest of the system is really high class.

Well the rest of my system is not, by a long way, a high end system. The amp is a budget amp (NAD 325bee), however my 19 year old Canton Karat 60 speakers (while not high end) are reasonable. Bought for 2000 DM in Germany in 1989, I have not heard anything close to them within a lakh here in India (have not heard BE-718, but they are above a lakh, aren't they). (In a separate thread I may start a discussion on these speakers with whatever technical specification I have about them and l would invite suggestions about a better amp).

Based on your post and the high end revealing systems, I should not hear the difference between the two transports then. But I do.

I know I am asking a difficult question, because none of you are actually not hearing the difference I am talking about. But since all reviewers of CDPs and DACs these days, even for budget systems, are talking about jitter and manufacturers are also claiming all sorts of procedures to get rid of them, may be we should think about these things more and try to make some kind of objective judgment on these things more than just hearsay.
 
After all this talk about sampling and re-sampling and clocking being so critical in physical circuit paths, I am a tad surprised that people are also confident that transporting digtal music over wireless on "thin air" to a DAC is as good as an audiophile CDP.

Gobble, wireless transmission of digital data is easier than that of analogue. In analogue transmission, as part of a sending through a RF wave, you could add noise to the analogue signal. This noise once introduced is very difficult to remove from the analogue signal.

Digital transmission has two advantages. One it can be transmitted at very high frequencies and low bandwidth thus keeping out interference. Secondly, the modulation/demodulation at both ends has in built filtering mechanisms that remove noise and jitter. Wireless Fidelity or Wi-Fi as it is known was given the 2.4GHz frequency exclusively bu US and other countries. Unfortunately a lot of other devices such as Bluetooth, Microwave oven, baby monitors, etc., started using the same frequency. Recently IEEE has introduced 802.11a and 802.11n as standards that use 5GHz. With inbuilt filters and jitter removal mechanism, these transmitters and receivers provide excellent performance of transmitting music across small distances.

I am open to experimentation and don't mind spending more on a DAC with USB just to find out how it goes - esp since I find changing CDs every 7/8 songs painfully boring (more so because only 3 songs out of 7 on average I find listen-able on a commercial CD). Its different with handling Vinyl records, charming feel and experience, but not with CDs. I think (like someone pointed out) the difference won't be audible on my budget cd6002>Nad c325BEE > Wharfedale 9.2 system.

If you listen to a lot of music and have a large stock of CDs at hand you have two choices.

1. Buy a CD Jukebox such as one made by Sony. This can store 100 CDs and play all of them one by one.

2. Like I am doing, go computer based all the way. Rip all your CDs into lossless formats such as FLAC, WAV, or AIF, and use software based players to play any song you want. This way you don't even need a CDP, as the CDP on your computer will do.There is a lot of work here - ripping, cataloguing, etc. Once you have ripped your existing CDs, it may take a hour of so for every new CD you purchase.

There is absolutely no difference in sound quality between a CD and a lossless audio codec.

Cheers
 
Hi All,

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. Here's what I finally could afford after a lot of reconsideration and bought- Marantz CD 5001, Marantz SR 4021 and a Tannoy Fusion-2, with some custom made cables and connectors. I'm happy with the output and enjoying the system for the last 2 days :)

Thanks once again,
Madhu
 
madhujit
any reason why you choose a 4021 receiver over an inegrated amp like PM6001 etc (except the radio ofcourse)
 
Well the person I got this from had a boxed piece of this and was giving this to me at a very low cost. Apart from this, nothing else. This person imports stuff and sells it here and after having heard this, I thought this wasn't all that bad :) That apart, I have no other reason for choosing the 4021.

Could you please tell me if the difference is huge between the 4021 and the 6001 (in terms of sound quality) as I haven't heard the 6001.

Thanks,
Madhu
 
If you listen to a lot of music and have a large stock of CDs at hand you have two choices.

1. Buy a CD Jukebox such as one made by Sony. This can store 100 CDs and play all of them one by one.

2. Like I am doing, go computer based all the way.

Option 2 is already a habit for me :) - the FLAC collection on my disk will remain inaccessible until I get a DAC or I else I will selectively burn favourites on CDDA.

Venkat can you tell me what device I will need to receive wireless transmisison at the DAC side, if my PC is on the sending side? I don't want to use another PC.

TIA
Regards
 
Hi All,

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. Here's what I finally could afford after a lot of reconsideration and bought- Marantz CD 5001, Marantz SR 4021 and a Tannoy Fusion-2, with some custom made cables and connectors. I'm happy with the output and enjoying the system for the last 2 days :)

Thanks once again,
Madhu

Can you list the component prices you paid so we know the market rates? :)

TIA
 
Venkat can you tell me what device I will need to receive wireless transmisison at the DAC side, if my PC is on the sending side? I don't want to use another PC.

One of the best options is Squeezebox (Transporter & Squeezebox Wireless Network Music Players - Every room deserves a soundtrack).

Other options are:

There are more expensive options available such as Sonos and a new product from Linksys.

Cheers
 
Well, I have to say that this is not showroom rates, as this person gets it directly imported and hence I wouldn't have a point of view on the showroom costs

Marantz SR 4021- Rs. 18000
Marantz CD 5001- Rs 10000
Tannoy Fusion 2- Rs 11000
Cables+ Connectors- Rs 5000
 

This one is interesting Transporter Wireless Network Music Player: The wireless digital music player audiophiles have been waiting for.

However I would wait for the transporter with 802.11n wireless instead of 802.11g currently. For the investment we should ensure that it can stream 1080p HD video as well, then it will be an even better deal.

Regards

Ps: Whoa! The PRICE!! $1999 ... just saw it :(
 
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