HK 3490 as preamp

[zoso02]

Hi...

As some of you would have seen from my previous posts, I have the Harmon Kardon 3490 stereo receiver. I have recently upgraded my speakers the the MA RX6 and with that feel the need to upgrade the amp. However I have been thinking that instead of selling the HK (if i'm able to) and getting an integrated amp can I use the HK as the preamp and buy myself a good power amp.

What do you guys think?

- Will using it as a pre-amp with a good power amp improve the overall SQ?

- Will I be able to get a good power amp in around 40K? Which one would work well in this set up? I like listening to Classic Rock...Jazz...blues...Pop...Hip Hop etc.

- Should I just go for a good second hand integrated amp? However not sure how I would be able to sell the HK...it's only 3 weeks old.

Pls help...

- Jasdeep

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Zoso02,
I am assuming that like anyone in your situation, you would ultimately like to get the best out of MA RX6 (these are very reputed, and you MUST get the best out of them). I am sure some of our forum members have RX6 and can guide you on how to get best out of it. Our forum member Dinyaar has good exposure on amps... you can PM him for experienced advice.

Meanwhile my "theoretical advice" based on web-reports* is as follows:
*Please don't ask for corresponding web-links, I am telling you from memory.

1. Though we can't generalise that power-amps are better than integrated at same price point, looking from common sense point of view think about it... an integrated amp say costing 40k, shares its cost between pre-amp circuit and power amp circuit that resides in same box... whereas a power amp costing 40k will devote whole of that 40k to the power amp circuit.

2. In continuity to above... So you may get better transformer, better electronics in power-amp of 40k than compared to integrated of same cost. This case is especially true when the comparison is with integrated amp and power amp of the same brand, belonging to the brand's VFM range.

3. Your RX6 will definately benefit from a strong amp (strong amp means a high-current amp, even though it may be an 80w rms amp). RX6 hasn't got a hard-to-drive reputation the way a Usher BE-718 has, though RX6 bass end improves considerably with a "strong" amp.

4. Possibility of getting a "good" "strong" amp within 40k (new purchase case) may still be possible but getting a "strong" integrated in 40k (new) is nearly impossible. So if budget is a consideration for the new amp, focus right away on power-amps. (Very rough indicator >>... a 100w rms "strong" amp should have a transformer of 400VA at least, and capacitor bank of 40,000 micro-farads at least)

5. Even if you are thinking of going the "used amp" way the above cost-logic still holds true. Considering brands, age, physical condition at par, a used power-amp in 20k will deliver better result than used integrated of same cost.

6. Presently use the the HK as preamp (though you are wasting the money spent on its amp circuit), and go for power-amps.

7. If possible, try a to get a "suitable" line-level passive preamp in lieu of your HK (by way of sale or trade-in). This is considering you need a line-level source only. That way there is no wastage of money on "unutilised amp circuit" and OTOH you will benefit from a better sounding passive pre-amp... may even end up saving some money.

Phew! that was long... I hope you haven't slept by now.

Regds,
Sonosphere

Hi...

As some of you would have seen from my previous posts, I have the Harmon Kardon 3490 stereo receiver. I have recently upgraded my speakers the the MA RX6 and with that feel the need to upgrade the amp. However I have been thinking that instead of selling the HK (if i'm able to) and getting an integrated amp can I use the HK as the preamp and buy myself a good power amp.

What do you guys think?

- Will using it as a pre-amp with a good power amp improve the overall SQ?

- Will I be able to get a good power amp in around 40K? Which one would work well in this set up? I like listening to Classic Rock...Jazz...blues...Pop...Hip Hop etc.

- Should I just go for a good second hand integrated amp? However not sure how I would be able to sell the HK...it's only 3 weeks old.

Pls help...

- Jasdeep

 

[anm]

I would suggest you to listen to hk for some time to understand what you do not want in your next amp. If possible, borrow amps from your friends, or carry your amp to dealers to listen to other amps, and then do a comparison with your own.
Regarding pricing of 40k, IMHO majority of it goes into dealer margins, duties, packaging shipping etc. So anyway even a power amp at that price range may not have much more money spent towards better components.

 

[mpw]

I would suggest you to listen to hk for some time to understand what you do not want in your next amp. If possible, borrow amps from your friends, or carry your amp to dealers to listen to other amps, and then do a comparison with your own.
Regarding pricing of 40k, IMHO majority of it goes into dealer margins, duties, packaging shipping etc. So anyway even a power amp at that price range may not have much more money spent towards better components.

=====================================================

give it some more time jasdeep..i gather both the amp and the speakers are new. Only then decide where to out your money. In the mean time please do listen to as much music as possible.. maybe 200 hrs.. .. maybe some friends can loan you their amp for a few days.. and also your post is not clear as to what improvement you want.

Sound is such a thing that even after spending tons of money.. there is room for improvement.. more listening will help you reach a better judgment of what you want. I trust that you had listended to the HK + MA combination before you bought it.

mpw

 

[zoso02]

Thank you all...

Sonosphere - Really appreciate you taking the time out to put your detailed comments and explain everything in detail. I have the option in hand of the CA 840A (used) which fits in my budget. It would cost the same as a good power amp. Do you recommend I get that and sell of the HK? From what it says the HK is a high current amp at 125 W. Will the RX6 sound much better paired with this amp. I like a good soundstage...clear treble...great vocals and tight bass. Think that the HK currently needs to be played at 3/4th the volume to get loud and gets a little shrill to the ear. I might also get the NAD 372 used in a few days...might get...do you think it's worth the wait over the CA? Should I still go with the pre/power with the HK?

Thanks ANM and MPW. Will definitely try it out for longer but from what I understand the sound from and integrated or pre/power combo will be better than a stereo receiver. I would love to hear your thoughts on the above questions as well.

Take care...

 

[anm]

if you have to go to 3/4th ie 3o clock then you need to change now. Basically it should not go beyond 12o clock for moderately loud listening.
You may go for either, just audition before buying, with your speakers.

Edit - changed 9oclock to 3. What was I thinking?

 

[mpw]

if you have to go to 3/4th ie 9o clock then you need to change now. Basically it should not go beyond 12o clock for moderately loud listening.
You may go for either, just audition before buying, with your speakers.

================================================

do seek more opinions from dinyaar, shanti etc..and trust your ears. please listen to the combo u wish and u will not go wrong..

 

[zoso02]

Thank you guys...apprecaite!!

 

[sonosphere]

Hi zoso02,
In view of your post below reg CA 840A and NAD 372, I would suggest to go directly to audition stage now. I hope Bangalore has dealers for the aforesaid models of CA and NAD both, where you can audition your RX6. Don't forget to take your source too. Carrying around RX6 will be a task though, unless the dealers agree for home audition of amp.

BTW make note of what you want from the upgraded sound, BEFORE you go for these auditions. Let your instincts lead you to decision, rather than a "wow" surprise performance an audition. Without naming the amp, I may tell you that you may find one to be warm sounding (such amps can be listened for long hours), while the other may be almost neutral (it may even sound ordinary to some, since there is no enhancement of any freq-band).

Under present circumstances your ears will guide you to faster decision than more research.

Regds,
Sonosphere

Thank you all...

Sonosphere - Really appreciate you taking the time out to put your detailed comments and explain everything in detail. I have the option in hand of the CA 840A (used) which fits in my budget. It would cost the same as a good power amp. Do you recommend I get that and sell of the HK? From what it says the HK is a high current amp at 125 W. Will the RX6 sound much better paired with this amp. I like a good soundstage...clear treble...great vocals and tight bass. Think that the HK currently needs to be played at 3/4th the volume to get loud and gets a little shrill to the ear. I might also get the NAD 372 used in a few days...might get...do you think it's worth the wait over the CA? Should I still go with the pre/power with the HK?

Thanks ANM and MPW. Will definitely try it out for longer but from what I understand the sound from and integrated or pre/power combo will be better than a stereo receiver. I would love to hear your thoughts on the above questions as well.

Take care...

 

[afj]

theoretically the pre power combo is the way to go. but whats more important is having a good match between the pre and the power and then also it matching it to the speakers. remember bright + warm doesnt necessarily equal neutral. whatever you do listen to it first and also listen to other options. make a decision based on what your ears like

 

[soundofmusic]

Harman Kardon is better then NAD and CA........ IMO, SInce the receiver is new why cant you exchange your HK Receiver with HK Amplifier. Always an Amplifier will sound better then a Receiver. HK has highest ampere rating then the NAD or CA and it can drive the MA speakers without any Problem. Another amplifier to consider to use with MA is Arcam and Cyrus.

Vijaykumar.

 

[anm]

even I "feel" that HK amps are very good. It is surprising that the HK receiver is not able to drive MA speakers, which are not too high load speakers. Maybe you can ask the HK person to come and see, and may be try with another piece of this receiver model (I am assuming you purchased from India).
If it works out fine, you will have a good dac + tuner + amp in one.

 

[mpw]

jasdeep,

you know something - i am suprised too. I have the HK AVR 255 and this is rated at 65W at 8 ohm for 2 channel music rand believe me this can get VERY LOUD. The HK amp is powerful indeed.

I like the HK sound too though i must admit i got a good deal on a Philips Integrated and have been enjoying 2 ch ever since. But i have heard enoughof HK and i like the sound and know for sure that they carry a punch.

Please contact HK at ::: JBL ::: maybe Savio can help. maybe before you get into buying mode and spend another 50K odd. ( which is quite a sum of money ) you may do well to take your HK amp to Mumbai or bangalore HK showroom and play it JBL speakers there. Just to check if your HK receiver is working fine. I think you have imported the 110V one. I dont wish to add to the confusion but just do a comparo with other amps too.

regards,
mpw

 

[zoso02]

Thanks everyone...here is what I did!

I used a friends CA840A which is rated the same as the HK as far as the wattage goes. Looks like you guys are right about the power. The HK does pack a punch and for the price it surprised me. I am using the same kind of volume...say 2 o'clock on both amps to get loud.

Here is my comparison...they both have different sound signatures and here is what I observed listening to it side by side with the same source and speakers.

Soundstage - Larger on the CA
Bass - Tighter on the HK however more and spread out on the CA
Vocals - Louder on the HK. The CA is warmer.
Instruments - Sound better on the CA

Loose some...win some as I see it. Overall I prefer the CA840A to the HK3490 but then it is not an apples to apples comparison as it is in a different price bracket.
Might be looking at selling the HK...home demo's are welcome for people genuinely interested.

 

[sonosphere]

Thanks everyone...here is what I did!

I used a friends CA840A which is rated the same as the HK as far as the wattage goes. Looks like you guys are right about the power. ... I am using the same kind of volume...say 2 o'clock on both amps to get loud.

Hi zoso02,
You mean CA 840A needs to be cranked upto 2'o clock for RX6 to sound loud? (I consider loud means so loud (90dB at 1m) that you can't hear a guy talking 1 m away from you, when the speakers are also 1 m away)

This means RX6 is one hell of a hungry beast. (My Ushers V-601's get that loud only at 12'0clock position on my 50w pc NAD integrated. Their sensitivity is only 87dB )

 

[anm]

I would have liked to demo that model in my home, but you are too far away in blore.

 

[zoso02]

Hi Sonosphere...I am a bit surprised as well. The speaker is 6 Ohm...125W and 90db. The BR6 that I had before that was 8ohm...90db and 150 W and I felt it did not require to be cranked this high to get loud. The only difference I did not have the same CDP. Could that make a difference? This one is a way higher model though.

The 840's volume is from 0-96 with 0 being the loudest. To get loud it has to be played at 30...to get loud to the point that you cant hear anything else it should be 25. Is that normal or is the speaker too power hungry? Is the amp ok? From what I heard after 30 the volume shifts 3 times with each click.

One good thing...even at 15 u will get no distortion...

ANM...come for a vacation to the south and u can audition as well

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Sonosphere...I am a bit surprised ...The only difference I did not have the same CDP. Could that make a difference? This one is a way higher model though.
....
One good thing...even at 15 u will get no distortion...

Hi,
Generally speaking the CDP volume defaults to highest possible when switched on, and most CDP's have same output level. So the problem shouldn't happen due to this CDP.

Just to be sure, check whether the volume setting is at max. If its lower, say at 50%, then you know the CDP volume level is the culprit.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[anm]

or try some other source as well.

 

[square_wave]

Hi...

As some of you would have seen from my previous posts, I have the Harmon Kardon 3490 stereo receiver. I have recently upgraded my speakers the the MA RX6 and with that feel the need to upgrade the amp. However I have been thinking that instead of selling the HK (if i'm able to) and getting an integrated amp can I use the HK as the preamp and buy myself a good power amp.

What do you guys think?

- Will using it as a pre-amp with a good power amp improve the overall SQ?

- Will I be able to get a good power amp in around 40K? Which one would work well in this set up? I like listening to Classic Rock...Jazz...blues...Pop...Hip Hop etc.

- Should I just go for a good second hand integrated amp? However not sure how I would be able to sell the HK...it's only 3 weeks old.

Pls help...

- Jasdeep

Bad idea ! You will just gain muscle power without any finesse !

The "source" and "pre amplification" is the mother. If you compromise here, everything down-hill will sound bad. I have tried doing this with Nads.

Change the full amplification system. A new integrated or pre/power. If on a budget, get a new preamp instead and use the HK poweramp section.