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Home theatre set up
- Thread starter pechetti
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Flash
Well-Known Member
Flash
Well-Known Member
Manoj
the 9.6 will be a little overbearing for your room of 17x12 The 9.5 would do well though and a little less load on your Denon 16xx which you have zeroed in on.
In a 5.1 setup it is not neccessary to have floorstanding speakers as fronts. you can also audition good bookshelves like Wharfedale 9.2/10.2 , Paradigms, Klipsch, Quad's etc etc.
You will save tremendous amount of money and you can either mount it on the wall or stands.
The reason why i would recommend bookshelves in your case is since you are sure you are going to use a subwoofer. you would not need a full range tower speaker to produce all the LFE (low frequencies). the frequencies from 100/80hz down would go to your sub.
THX recommends 80hz for HT setup and with quality bookshelves u can cross your sub / fronts at 80hz easily
A tower is supposed to produce most frequencies for example Wharfedale 9.6 frequency response 28hz - 24khz -6db.
If you put a sub into the equation on these towers. your speaker is not going to use most of its low end frequency response from 28hz to 80hz infact you will be using the bass woofer at probably quarter its capacity.
In that sense buy good bookshelves and spend more on a quality sub that can really reach low, in the sub 30hz region atleast
However this does not apply if you are a purist and want to listen to music in 2.0 and not 2.1
Another word of mention. if you don't have the space, look for front ported speakers. because with rear ported speakers you would need to leave alteast a 10 - 12 inch gap from the rear wall to get the best SQ and to avoid boom
Since you are in Pune
Audiition
Klipsch RF 42/52/62 floorstanders , Klipsch Subs at Aquarius Electronics at camp
Wharfedale 10.1 / Quad's bookshelves at Aquarius Electronics (contact person Behram Daruwalla)
Paradigm Monitor 7's ver 9 etc at AVxcellence at DP road (contact person Anand)
the 9.6 will be a little overbearing for your room of 17x12 The 9.5 would do well though and a little less load on your Denon 16xx which you have zeroed in on.
In a 5.1 setup it is not neccessary to have floorstanding speakers as fronts. you can also audition good bookshelves like Wharfedale 9.2/10.2 , Paradigms, Klipsch, Quad's etc etc.
You will save tremendous amount of money and you can either mount it on the wall or stands.
The reason why i would recommend bookshelves in your case is since you are sure you are going to use a subwoofer. you would not need a full range tower speaker to produce all the LFE (low frequencies). the frequencies from 100/80hz down would go to your sub.
THX recommends 80hz for HT setup and with quality bookshelves u can cross your sub / fronts at 80hz easily
A tower is supposed to produce most frequencies for example Wharfedale 9.6 frequency response 28hz - 24khz -6db.
If you put a sub into the equation on these towers. your speaker is not going to use most of its low end frequency response from 28hz to 80hz infact you will be using the bass woofer at probably quarter its capacity.
In that sense buy good bookshelves and spend more on a quality sub that can really reach low, in the sub 30hz region atleast
However this does not apply if you are a purist and want to listen to music in 2.0 and not 2.1
Another word of mention. if you don't have the space, look for front ported speakers. because with rear ported speakers you would need to leave alteast a 10 - 12 inch gap from the rear wall to get the best SQ and to avoid boom
Since you are in Pune
Audiition
Klipsch RF 42/52/62 floorstanders , Klipsch Subs at Aquarius Electronics at camp
Wharfedale 10.1 / Quad's bookshelves at Aquarius Electronics (contact person Behram Daruwalla)
Paradigm Monitor 7's ver 9 etc at AVxcellence at DP road (contact person Anand)
Flash
Well-Known Member
sent you a pm
Hi Flash...,
Thanks for your mail....
from what you mention ,I summarize as below :
If I get floor standing /towers, i need not go for subwoofer.
for the 9.5/9.6 wharfs FS's, the AVR 1612 will be insufficient to drive
If subwoofer is to be purchased, to couple it with 1612, i need bookshelfs
If subwoofer is to be purchased, to couple it with 1912, i need FS
Can I go with just the FS ( Wharfs 9.5) , AVR 1912, and a DVD player( whichone) to begin with ?
Please advise /comment on the above.
attaching my living room plan for ref.
thanks & bestregards
Manoj
Thanks for your mail....
from what you mention ,I summarize as below :
If I get floor standing /towers, i need not go for subwoofer.
for the 9.5/9.6 wharfs FS's, the AVR 1612 will be insufficient to drive
If subwoofer is to be purchased, to couple it with 1612, i need bookshelfs
If subwoofer is to be purchased, to couple it with 1912, i need FS
Can I go with just the FS ( Wharfs 9.5) , AVR 1912, and a DVD player( whichone) to begin with ?
Please advise /comment on the above.
attaching my living room plan for ref.
thanks & bestregards
Manoj
Flash
Well-Known Member
Hi Manoj,
Took a look at your floor plan.
I think you may have misunderstood what i was trying to say .
The 1612 will be able to drive the 9.5 / 9.6 however not to the best of its capability.the same goes even for the the 1912.
Yes it will work fine for you and you will be able to play it loud. But if you compare the same speakers with let say someone who owns a stereo amp or an AVR with a power amp. At the same volume you will find that something is wrong with your setup . The bass may not be as tight, the mids, soundstage imaging etc may fall short of someone who has a Stereo Amp (debatable) or AVR / Power amp combo.
So Yes you can use the 1612/1912 on wharfedale 9.5 / 9.6 . The Wharfedale speakers are generally warm.and bassy . they have pots load of bass .which means you may or may not find it necessary to have a SUB However in a HT setup since there is a lot of detail at extremely low Hz. A sub may be necessary to augment the speakers bass but again it boils down to personal preference.
In a nut shell irrespective what floorstanders you have a 30k pair of speakers or 3 lakhs for a pair, for Home theater you need a SUB. if you want the best out of movies.
"But" you can be more than happy with the bass out of the 9.5 / 9.6 to not need one at all. A buddy i know who stays 3 blocks away has a similiar layout hall as u and has the Wharf 9.5 with the Onkyo 609 reciever. he watches a movie every single night religiously and finds no need to spend 30k on a sub. he is perfectly happy
However for me .although i use the 9.6 for music and very rarely movies and I have a Denon 2106 / Emotiva XPA2. I find it necessary to put in a sub for movies. In fact i just finalized a deal with a fellow Hifiian member for a Subwoofer which retails in India for approx Rs 90k. i should have it in a day or two at my house. :yahoo:
So it boils down to personal preference
But i would suggest to spend the extra money and go in for the 1911. it available for 30 - 32k and although replaced by the 1912 there is a considerable price difference between the two. if you dont need the extra features of the 1912 then the 1911 is for you since dealers are giving in discounts to get rid of their old stock.
The reason why i say the 1912/ 1911 over the 1612 is pirely because of 7.1 channels on the former. this gives u the opportunity to bi wire / biamp your floorstanders using the surround back channel on the AVR to give you seperate amplification for your Bass drivers and seperate for your mids/highs.
Most users find bi amping improves overall SQ and tightens bass and mids.
Since you are going to setup a 5.1 channel setup. on a 1612 you will be using all the channls and will/may not be able to biamp
((( the 9.1,9.2,9.5,9.6,10.1,10.2,10.xxxxxx )) can all be biwired/biamped
Now coming down to Floorstanders vs Bookshelves.
A good pair of Bookshelves can knock the socks out of a VFM Floorstander.
Today i auditioned the B&W 685 at Sound and Vision on East Street. and I was blown with the sq , imaging etc. for Stereo Music it is definitely better than the 9.5 / 9.6 cant even compare it. However the bookshelves do come in at 42k a pair. I have to still audition the Mezzo 2 etc etc etc to make up my mind on which one i want for my spare room stereo setup. I will move the Wharfs for movies only duty.
Manoj after looking at our Hall setup , u will be sitting approx 10 - 12 feet from speakers TV. the 9.5 / 9.6 may be a little overbearing and overkill. On a Budget the 9.2's / 10.2's may suit your room a whole lot better plus a little less load on your AVR. I would say the 9.1/9.2 instead of the 10.1/10.2 purely because of front slots, so u don't need to leave a gap from the rear wall to your speaker
Buy a good quality Sub from Velodyne, Klipsch, Polk,REL etc in the 25k - 40k range and you will have a very good setup.
IN A NUTSHELL
You can start of either with
Denon 1911/2 or 1612 with the Wharfedale 9.5/9.6 (may or may not need to add a sub later)
or
Denon 1911/2 or 1612 with Wharfedale 9.2 / 10.2 with a good sub.
I understand you are on a tight budget See what suits your budget better.
35k on 9,6 and u may need to add a sub later if u desire
or
17k on 9.2 + 25k on sub = 42k total.
The choice is yours . what i would suggest is audition 9.5 / 9.6 not with music but a movie with no sub
and also the 9.2 / 9.1/ 10.1/10.2 with a sub again a movie. and see which you like better.
The only reason I am saying audition with movies is because your setup is primarily intended for Movies
if u can cant find the 9.6 for auditions u can drop by my house anytime . I have already sent u a pm a couple of days ago with my tel number
In terms of DVD players it depends on your budget . try going in for a Blu-ray player instead. it will still play your DVD's CD's etc. It makes sense to go in for a Blu-ray player because tha'ts where media format for movies seem to be heading. try LG / Samsung etc.
Took a look at your floor plan.
I think you may have misunderstood what i was trying to say .
The 1612 will be able to drive the 9.5 / 9.6 however not to the best of its capability.the same goes even for the the 1912.
Yes it will work fine for you and you will be able to play it loud. But if you compare the same speakers with let say someone who owns a stereo amp or an AVR with a power amp. At the same volume you will find that something is wrong with your setup . The bass may not be as tight, the mids, soundstage imaging etc may fall short of someone who has a Stereo Amp (debatable) or AVR / Power amp combo.
So Yes you can use the 1612/1912 on wharfedale 9.5 / 9.6 . The Wharfedale speakers are generally warm.and bassy . they have pots load of bass .which means you may or may not find it necessary to have a SUB However in a HT setup since there is a lot of detail at extremely low Hz. A sub may be necessary to augment the speakers bass but again it boils down to personal preference.
In a nut shell irrespective what floorstanders you have a 30k pair of speakers or 3 lakhs for a pair, for Home theater you need a SUB. if you want the best out of movies.
"But" you can be more than happy with the bass out of the 9.5 / 9.6 to not need one at all. A buddy i know who stays 3 blocks away has a similiar layout hall as u and has the Wharf 9.5 with the Onkyo 609 reciever. he watches a movie every single night religiously and finds no need to spend 30k on a sub. he is perfectly happy
However for me .although i use the 9.6 for music and very rarely movies and I have a Denon 2106 / Emotiva XPA2. I find it necessary to put in a sub for movies. In fact i just finalized a deal with a fellow Hifiian member for a Subwoofer which retails in India for approx Rs 90k. i should have it in a day or two at my house. :yahoo:
So it boils down to personal preference
But i would suggest to spend the extra money and go in for the 1911. it available for 30 - 32k and although replaced by the 1912 there is a considerable price difference between the two. if you dont need the extra features of the 1912 then the 1911 is for you since dealers are giving in discounts to get rid of their old stock.
The reason why i say the 1912/ 1911 over the 1612 is pirely because of 7.1 channels on the former. this gives u the opportunity to bi wire / biamp your floorstanders using the surround back channel on the AVR to give you seperate amplification for your Bass drivers and seperate for your mids/highs.
Most users find bi amping improves overall SQ and tightens bass and mids.
Since you are going to setup a 5.1 channel setup. on a 1612 you will be using all the channls and will/may not be able to biamp
((( the 9.1,9.2,9.5,9.6,10.1,10.2,10.xxxxxx )) can all be biwired/biamped
Now coming down to Floorstanders vs Bookshelves.
A good pair of Bookshelves can knock the socks out of a VFM Floorstander.
Today i auditioned the B&W 685 at Sound and Vision on East Street. and I was blown with the sq , imaging etc. for Stereo Music it is definitely better than the 9.5 / 9.6 cant even compare it. However the bookshelves do come in at 42k a pair. I have to still audition the Mezzo 2 etc etc etc to make up my mind on which one i want for my spare room stereo setup. I will move the Wharfs for movies only duty.
Manoj after looking at our Hall setup , u will be sitting approx 10 - 12 feet from speakers TV. the 9.5 / 9.6 may be a little overbearing and overkill. On a Budget the 9.2's / 10.2's may suit your room a whole lot better plus a little less load on your AVR. I would say the 9.1/9.2 instead of the 10.1/10.2 purely because of front slots, so u don't need to leave a gap from the rear wall to your speaker
Buy a good quality Sub from Velodyne, Klipsch, Polk,REL etc in the 25k - 40k range and you will have a very good setup.
IN A NUTSHELL
You can start of either with
Denon 1911/2 or 1612 with the Wharfedale 9.5/9.6 (may or may not need to add a sub later)
or
Denon 1911/2 or 1612 with Wharfedale 9.2 / 10.2 with a good sub.
I understand you are on a tight budget See what suits your budget better.
35k on 9,6 and u may need to add a sub later if u desire
or
17k on 9.2 + 25k on sub = 42k total.
The choice is yours . what i would suggest is audition 9.5 / 9.6 not with music but a movie with no sub
and also the 9.2 / 9.1/ 10.1/10.2 with a sub again a movie. and see which you like better.
The only reason I am saying audition with movies is because your setup is primarily intended for Movies
if u can cant find the 9.6 for auditions u can drop by my house anytime . I have already sent u a pm a couple of days ago with my tel number
In terms of DVD players it depends on your budget . try going in for a Blu-ray player instead. it will still play your DVD's CD's etc. It makes sense to go in for a Blu-ray player because tha'ts where media format for movies seem to be heading. try LG / Samsung etc.
vktyagi
Active Member
Now it may look silly to ask this a-midst a serious discussion but I have no hasitation in admitting that I am ignorant of the term "biamping" "biwiring" . Will a friend take me out of dark.
Further, can one consider replacing Denon 16xx or 19xx with Yamaha 667/ 671 and what will be the difference.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Vktyagi,
We were all ignorant at some point of time.
Getting down to Biamping / Biwiring
Most midfi , hifi speakers whether bookshelves or Floostanders have 2 pairs of binding posts at the rear unlike the common single pair of binding posts
So basically u can connect 2 pairs of speaker cables from the rear of the speaoker as compared to just one on a regular speaker.
What this does is it separates out the high frequency section of the loudspeaker from the low and essentially lets u send 2 separate signals from your AMP / AVR
for example on your AVR . the front speaker terminals connect to the speaker higher frequency binding posts and you can use your surrond back terminals on your AVR to power up the lower frequency section of your loudspeaker
to give you an example .
I have biwired/biamped a pair of loudspeakers to a Denon 2xxx series AVR.
I am in turn sending a clean 120w RMS to the higher frequencies of the speaker and sending another 125w RMS to the lower freq of the speaker.
so in turn less load on the AVR as it has to move / power fewer drivers per channel . Users have found speakers to perform better overall with bi-wiring . Improvements such as Tighter bass , better midrange etc etc.
Hope this answers your question.
Coming down to you question on the AVR.
not much to discern the change from the the 1911 to the yam. its more of a lateral movement as compared to an Upgrade
My personal preference is Denon though I find it better for music.
- F l a s h -
pechetti
New Member
Hi all Hifians,
I am back again with a question again. ineed all your advice.
Today i saw an ad in the paper and called up that guy in HYD.
he was offering Wharfdale diamond 9.6, 9.0 CS and Dipole rear sorrund and SPC-10 for 65K.
Denon 1912 for 30K.
He said that he had got all these from Malaysia. He can give me the bills and customs receipt for same.
Also he was offering Sony Bravia EX720 - 46"TV for 85K (104K,mrp).
All these are in sealed boxes(new). All deliverd free at door step.
Please tell me should i bite the hook as it looks tempting. what are the pros and cons in offers like this.
regards
I am back again with a question again. ineed all your advice.
Today i saw an ad in the paper and called up that guy in HYD.
he was offering Wharfdale diamond 9.6, 9.0 CS and Dipole rear sorrund and SPC-10 for 65K.
Denon 1912 for 30K.
He said that he had got all these from Malaysia. He can give me the bills and customs receipt for same.
Also he was offering Sony Bravia EX720 - 46"TV for 85K (104K,mrp).
All these are in sealed boxes(new). All deliverd free at door step.
Please tell me should i bite the hook as it looks tempting. what are the pros and cons in offers like this.
regards
baijuxavior
Well-Known Member
For 30K that denon 1912 is a steal. Ask the seller whether he will give any kind of warranty.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Saw your layout. You are putting a lot of thought in the speaker/receiver buying which is a very good thing. But Your seating is to one side of the room, towards right side more. So much so that your center seat is directly in front of the right speaker. The whole soundstage, imaging would be shifted right, and what you hear is only most of the right speaker. This is a very bad setup. I suggest giving the consideration to your seating and setup first than getting the plunge in speaker selection.
No matter how good the speakers are - if the setup/placement is not right, there is no way that will give you good imaging, sound-stage and all the experience. my two cents.
vktyagi
Active Member
Thanks for a very crisp reply.
Regards
Vinod
Regards
Vinod
Flash
Well-Known Member
pechetti
New Member
Hi all Hifians,
Between the Denon 1912 and Onkyo TX-NR-609, which is a better one.
As both cost almost the same. which would be a better option.
I was going through the comparison between both in this month's AV MAX issue.
where Onkyo is a best buy.
Will Onkyo be suitable with the Wharfedale speaker set up.
Also please tell me if a bottom firing sub woofer will disturb the people staying below, as i stay in a flat.
Between the Denon 1912 and Onkyo TX-NR-609, which is a better one.
As both cost almost the same. which would be a better option.
I was going through the comparison between both in this month's AV MAX issue.
where Onkyo is a best buy.
Will Onkyo be suitable with the Wharfedale speaker set up.
Also please tell me if a bottom firing sub woofer will disturb the people staying below, as i stay in a flat.
pechetti
New Member
HI guys,
After checking out all the reviews now decided to stretch my budget.
I am at present in Singapore for 2 months.
I have auditioned the wharfedale diamond 10.60/10cs/10.0/velodyne CHT-8Q coupled with denon 1611.
It was not bad but i was not impressed. was it because of the 1611??
Diamond 9 series not available here as they say it is phased out??
Denon 3312 costs only 1330SGD which is a steal compared to indian price.
Next i am planning to audition Monitor Audio Silver RX/Bronze BX series.
Guys can you suggest any other which are in the price range of Monitor audio SILVER RX SERIES.
How does Mordaunt short/Paradigm/Kilpsch/KEF/Dali sound when compared to Monitor audio silver RX series of same price range.
i intend to audition here in singapore and then buy when i am back home.
I intend to pick up the AV reciever as they seem to be quite cheap here.
How does the ONKYO TX-NR 609/709/809 compare itself to DENON or MARANTZ.
waiting to hear your valuable suggestions/guidance.
rgds
pechetti
After checking out all the reviews now decided to stretch my budget.
I am at present in Singapore for 2 months.
I have auditioned the wharfedale diamond 10.60/10cs/10.0/velodyne CHT-8Q coupled with denon 1611.
It was not bad but i was not impressed. was it because of the 1611??
Diamond 9 series not available here as they say it is phased out??
Denon 3312 costs only 1330SGD which is a steal compared to indian price.
Next i am planning to audition Monitor Audio Silver RX/Bronze BX series.
Guys can you suggest any other which are in the price range of Monitor audio SILVER RX SERIES.
How does Mordaunt short/Paradigm/Kilpsch/KEF/Dali sound when compared to Monitor audio silver RX series of same price range.
i intend to audition here in singapore and then buy when i am back home.
I intend to pick up the AV reciever as they seem to be quite cheap here.
How does the ONKYO TX-NR 609/709/809 compare itself to DENON or MARANTZ.
waiting to hear your valuable suggestions/guidance.
rgds
pechetti
Flash
Well-Known Member
Well the 1611 is a tad underpowered to dirve large floorstanders . that could be one of the reason for disappointment
Onkyo's are pretty good for movies . you can get a pretty decent deal on the Onlyo NR809. you should be able to get for 800-900 SGD.maybe a little lower.
I will give you the importers address in SG . you should be able to get it from him for around 700 sgd however you will not be able to claim 7% GST. However you cant go wrong at that price.
From where did u get the denon 3312 quote . its pretty steep . u should get it for $1000 thereabouts
Let me hunt down the importers numbers/ addresses etc. i have their business cards but got to search for them .
cheers
F l a s h
Onkyo's are pretty good for movies . you can get a pretty decent deal on the Onlyo NR809. you should be able to get for 800-900 SGD.maybe a little lower.
I will give you the importers address in SG . you should be able to get it from him for around 700 sgd however you will not be able to claim 7% GST. However you cant go wrong at that price.
From where did u get the denon 3312 quote . its pretty steep . u should get it for $1000 thereabouts
Let me hunt down the importers numbers/ addresses etc. i have their business cards but got to search for them .
cheers
F l a s h
pechetti
New Member
Hi Flash,
Many thanks for the info. i shall wait for your importers info. i have enough time here.
Again getting back to the speaker set up, at present i have the below in my mind.
Wharfedale EVO signature series (1.3L from hifimart)
Mordaunt short mezzo series (8,1,5) 1.6L
B&W 684,686,htm62; 1.6L
Monitor Audio Silver RX series
Which one would you suggest from the above.
thanks
pechetti
Many thanks for the info. i shall wait for your importers info. i have enough time here.
Again getting back to the speaker set up, at present i have the below in my mind.
Wharfedale EVO signature series (1.3L from hifimart)
Mordaunt short mezzo series (8,1,5) 1.6L
B&W 684,686,htm62; 1.6L
Monitor Audio Silver RX series
Which one would you suggest from the above.
thanks
pechetti
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