How to BI-AMP Denon 2309

[bazee]

hello friends,


1) i would like to biamp my wharfedale 9.5s to the Denon AVR-2309 reviever.


How can i do the same.... One solution given in the manual is to connect the L and R outs of the ZONE 2 output to the bi-wirable FRONT L and R of the wharfedales..
is this sufficient?



2) Also, how can i change the impedance of the system from 8 ohms to 6 ohms which is perfect for the speakers also.



3) What is the use of 7ch preout in the AVR.. can i add a power or int amp to it... then how to manage the spk wires.

Any suggestions are welcome,

regards

 

[marsilians]

hello friends,


1) i would like to biamp my wharfedale 9.5s to the Denon AVR-2309 reviever.

Bi = 2; amp = amplification. This is the process of using 2 separate amplifiers to drive the various speakers (low (bass) & high (treble) frequencies). During this process it also increases the overall sound reinforcement. So you cannot bi-amp using a receiver and speakers. I am assuming you might be referring to bi-wiring in which case you use 4 pronged speaker cable to connect to separate terminals on the speakers driving the low and high frequencies. On the receiver end, 2 prongs (1 from each freq) go onto the terminals instead of one.

If you look at pages 2 & 3 of your speaker manual, it tells you how to bi-wire them.

personally I have not seen any enhancement in sound due to bi-wiring even though my HT speakers support the feature.

How can i do the same.... One solution given in the manual is to connect the L and R outs of the ZONE 2 output to the bi-wirable FRONT L and R of the wharfedales..
is this sufficient?

This is not right. Could you point me to the exact page in the Denon manual?

2) Also, how can i change the impedance of the system from 8 ohms to 6 ohms which is perfect for the speakers also.

I went through your user manual and could not find this setting specifically which is rather surprising. When you did the auto-setup, do you see this value in the speaker impedance measurements at all? On my previous yamaha, there was an option to set it to 8/6/4 ohms for the speaker impedance in the manual setup. Worth a call to the Denon dealer.

3) What is the use of 7ch preout in the AVR.. can i add a power or int amp to it... then how to manage the spk wires.

This is for connecting an external power/tube amplifier with upto 7 channels. This is optional as your speakers could be easily driven by the receiver itself. The amplifier will have the same connecting terminals as the receiver to hook the speakers up. In that case you do nothing with the receiver terminals.

As a side thought I am thinking you might want to read the relevant sections of the manual before operating your equipment esp. if you are thinking of hooking up an ext. amplifier.

 

[bazee]

Thanks a lot marsillian.

I couldnt download 2309 manual ; couldnt find it on net. So downloaded 2309CI manual. Do you have link for 2309 manual( though i have paper one)

Regarding biamping i checked the manual it is not zone 2 outputs that you can send to biamp. It is SRB,SRL i.e surround rear back right and left that you have to bind to FR,FL front right and left spks to biamp, effectively reducing ur spks from 7.1 to 5.1.
Couldnt find to change 8 ohms to 6 ohms..

Regarding preout, i plan to use it later to add a int amp for pure stereo music.

regards

 

[bazee]

hi

by biamping a AVR i mean, to send two outputs to Front Speakers.

First amp out is the First Zone front output.

Second amp out could be extra 2s in a 7.1 being sent to Front Speakers reducing the spk count to 5.1( as shown in denon manual).


regards

 

[arun malur]

hello friends,


1) i would like to biamp my wharfedale 9.5s to the Denon AVR-2309 reviever.


How can i do the same.... One solution given in the manual is to connect the L and R outs of the ZONE 2 output to the bi-wirable FRONT L and R of the wharfedales..
is this sufficient?



Any suggestions are welcome,

regards

I have a Marantz SR 8002 and what you have mentioned regarding bi-amping is corerct. In my opinion Denon and Marantz almost have similar features.

 

[marsilians]

hi

by biamping a AVR i mean, to send two outputs to Front Speakers.

First amp out is the First Zone front output.

Second amp out could be extra 2s in a 7.1 being sent to Front Speakers reducing the spk count to 5.1( as shown in denon manual).


regards

Hi Bazee

It sounds like you are looking to setup Zone 2 with a separate amlifier. This is to be used for a location other than where the AVR is. Is that right? Also, you can only play one zone at a time.

I read the CI manual online as well. So, is the "bi-amp" section is the same on the hard copy of the manual? What does the title of the section state in the manual?

You should not be misled by the terminology here and be careful as to what you are doing along with pros/cons

 

[ajinkya]

You can do what you're suggesting with the Denon. However, the biamping will only work for analog input sources and not for digital ones. In other words, the Zone 2 outputs will work when using coaxial/optical/5.1 inputs to the Denon. This is a major pain if you listen to a lot of surround sound sources or movies.

So I suggest you don't go this route as a permanent solution. If only stereo is your main concern then the biamping works well and the sound is noticeably stronger and louder.

 

[bazee]

thanks ajinkya.

I want to make few points clear.

1) I want to biamp the front two spks(send two outputs).

2) I wont be touching outputs of zone 2.

3) I would take the outputs from Surround R and L(back) and send it to front L and R.( this has been suggested in manual). So if i remove two outputs from the 7.1 reciever, i get 5.1 surround output with double output to front 2 spks in zone 1 itself.


what do you say ? is this okay ?

Here is the link to the manual :-
Denon 2309 manual

Marsillian, pls go to pg 69, 70 and 71 for biamp assign section.


regards

 

[bazee]

dear friends

pls look at the picture of rear panel of the AVR.

Spk terminals are arranged in a line as :

Front A Front B Center Surround Surround Back.


the speaker outs for front are labelled as :
Front A (4 terminals 2R 2 L)
Fornt B (4 termials 2R 2L)

what does A and B denote ...i am sure they are not for bi-wiring.

regards

 

[sviyer]

I think,
Front A & B is a feature with which you can play the same music at two different location, say maybe your hall and bedroom etc.
in multi zone , you can play different set of music for two or more different location.


I would also like to know the use of bi-amping feature !

 

[marsilians]

hi Bazee

I read the manual a few times and it is very confusing to say the least. Below is the link i found for bi-amping as you would like though its for a diff. AVR.

Bi-amping the Denon AVR-5803 — Reviews and News from Audioholics

the steps should be the same. also make sure to setup appropriately in the menu as given on page 35 of the manual (amp assign) section.

 

[bazee]

Hi Marillians and everybody,

Think Solved the puzzle of bi-amping.
Took visit to avforum and hitting the manual a couple of times.


A few basics :
Bi-amping means sending two amplifications/outputs to speakers usually front R and L
Bi-wiring means sending a bi-wire or 4 wires from one speaker out to each speaker.... so each speaker must have 4 binding post. This is quite common and most spks and avrs are coming bi-wirable. Biwiring disputable improves the sound across low,mid and high frequencies. But remember ONLY one channel of amplification is driving each speaker.

Amplification of AVR : If a AVR is 7.1 and has power output of 125W it means it sends total of full 125 W to each speaker.

Now coming to Bi-amping in a AVR :-

The concept of bi-amping with a single AVR is as follows :-
We have to send TWO amplifications to each speaker ( almost same as sending two outputs to each speaker).

Now your AVR is 7.1, so we borrow two channels of amplification from it, usually the Surround Backs (R and L) and send it to the front L and R.
And in the AVR settings , assign the Surround Backs as BI-AMP ASSIGN and not usual 7.1. So now your setup has become 5.1 with double output to front two speakers. SO now the FRONt L AND R are getting 125+125 W each, so effectively it is bi-amping.

IN ALL THIS PROCESS THE ZONE 2 is not TOUCHED.
Because, the outputs of zone 2 are fromr Surround backs ( as in mine) and no dedicated outputs to zone 2( that would be 9.1? channels total if real).

Now biamping will improve at least the stereo sound and possibly surround experince of your system.

Now my next point was to reduce impedance in my system from 8 to 6 ohms still no clue.

All your iputs are welcome
regards

 

[sviyer]

hi bazee,
thanks for explaining the biamp thing.
but what if the speaker capacity is only say,100 watts for e.g., wont doubling the input affect the speakers??

 

[marsilians]

More power is good for the speakers. Less power is when problems arise.

 

[marsilians]

I am glad you resolved this Bazee. While I have not done this myself, I have read in various posts that this will increase the soundstage as you are doubling the power (it wont by 125 W * 2) but below it as the AVR wattage ratings are very much boosted.

Hi Marillians and everybody,

Think Solved the puzzle of bi-amping.
Took visit to avforum and hitting the manual a couple of times.


A few basics :
Bi-amping means sending two amplifications/outputs to speakers usually front R and L
Bi-wiring means sending a bi-wire or 4 wires from one speaker out to each speaker.... so each speaker must have 4 binding post. This is quite common and most spks and avrs are coming bi-wirable. Biwiring disputable improves the sound across low,mid and high frequencies. But remember ONLY one channel of amplification is driving each speaker.

Amplification of AVR : If a AVR is 7.1 and has power output of 125W it means it sends total of full 125 W to each speaker.

Now coming to Bi-amping in a AVR :-

The concept of bi-amping with a single AVR is as follows :-
We have to send TWO amplifications to each speaker ( almost same as sending two outputs to each speaker).

Now your AVR is 7.1, so we borrow two channels of amplification from it, usually the Surround Backs (R and L) and send it to the front L and R.
And in the AVR settings , assign the Surround Backs as BI-AMP ASSIGN and not usual 7.1. So now your setup has become 5.1 with double output to front two speakers. SO now the FRONt L AND R are getting 125+125 W each, so effectively it is bi-amping.

IN ALL THIS PROCESS THE ZONE 2 is not TOUCHED.
Because, the outputs of zone 2 are fromr Surround backs ( as in mine) and no dedicated outputs to zone 2( that would be 9.1? channels total if real).

Now biamping will improve at least the stereo sound and possibly surround experince of your system.

Now my next point was to reduce impedance in my system from 8 to 6 ohms still no clue.

All your iputs are welcome
regards

 

[akeoo7]

Hi bazee
the way you described it is the right way to do it, just make sure that your speakers do support biamp.
well sorry as i made my reply after reading the 1st page only, not having seen the 2nd.

 

[sviyer]

hi bazee,
any sucess with the bi-amp thingy?

 

[bazee]

Did the bi-amping successfully.

The sound is now richer, vocals powerful and bass more taut.

It is a simple principle: sound output = quality of sound input.
You feed your speakers with good ampliciation, the output is good.

Also dont expect that by doubling the amplification, you will get double the sound. It is not so. So when you say you are driving the spks with 200W amplification, it does not indicate any room shattering sound becos you wont be toucing the 200 W output in routine use.

 

[RSRAMESH]

Did the bi-amping successfully.

The sound is now richer, vocals powerful and bass more taut.

It is a simple principle: sound output = quality of sound input.
You feed your speakers with good ampliciation, the output is good.

Also dont expect that by doubling the amplification, you will get double the sound. It is not so. So when you say you are driving the spks with 200W amplification, it does not indicate any room shattering sound becos you wont be toucing the 200 W output in routine use.

I second Bazee, I bi amped my Onkyo Receive 606 with Jamo 606 front speakers, the quality of sound output had improved considerably.


One Important step in bi-amping is to remove the jumper setting (connector) between the Front spearker terminals.

Also i guess not all speakers have the facility to Bi-amp.

Thanks
Ramesh S

 

[sviyer]

Hi Bazee,
thanks for the reply, I will be trying out the same soon.

I hope the connection is a simple as taking two speaker wires and joining the Surr F/L to the front F/L . This has only two be done on the AMP , right?

sorry if the question sounds stupid, but i am afraid i might blow up my amp !