Hype, expectations and choices we make

[Analogous]

Hype is defined in a dictionary as extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

We experience Publicity and promotion everyday. It could be a product, a movie, a dish, a gadget, a car, a pet, a diet, a public personality…., the list seems endless.

But in our audio hobby, hype is of particular interest and concern. Big companies with deep pockets are able to do this more,while small boutique companies seem to rely on specialist reviewers and audio forums to spread the word.

Note the above definition of the term hype does not imply it’s dishonest or untruthful. Other definitions may vary. We all do however make choices based on information that we find, research or are told (unless we inherit or such)

Given that we all have personal preferences in a highly subjective field and are influenced by peer pressure, how do we make sense of it all and make better choices and decisions on components that will work well together to sound good to our ears and tastes ?

Ok, with the above confounding context set, the question I actually want to ask is “how do you make your decisions when choosing audio components for your set up?”

 

[amit11]

For me i have observed that i "hear" the demos of that product on YouTube and make buying decisions. Not for all but these items were on basis of that only. Amp(s), streamer(s), reclocker, Dac(s), tube buffer.

I listen keenly using ear phones to those YouTube videos and try to make a judgement if its sound is to my liking or not.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hype is defined in a dictionary as extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

We experience Publicity and promotion everyday. It could be a product, a movie, a dish, a gadget, a car, a pet, a diet, a public personality…., the list seems endless.

But in our audio hobby, hype is of particular interest and concern. Big companies with deep pockets are able to do this more,while small boutique companies seem to rely on specialist reviewers and audio forums to spread the word.

Note the above definition of the term hype does not imply it’s dishonest or untruthful. Other definitions may vary. We all do however make choices based on information that we find, research or are told (unless we inherit or such)

Given that we all have personal preferences in a highly subjective field and are influenced by peer pressure, how do we make sense of it all and make better choices and decisions on components that will work well together to sound good to our ears and tastes ?

Ok, with the above confounding context set, the question I actually want to ask is “how do you make your decisions when choosing audio components for your set up?”

I wouldn't take a published review to be worth the paper it is written on .

Over the years I've made virtual friends in the forums, whose ears I deeply trust. I depend mostly on their experiences and upgrades to guide my own.

Thanks to the Internet, forums give more unbiased impressions of kit, than anyone who reviews for a living ever could. Except for a very very few exceptions. And over the years i trust those reviewers too.

There was this guy in the UK, who claimed that the holo may kitsune pisses all over the bartok. I know a few bartok users who were deeply offended. They were sulking sore for a few days.

Maybe we don't need bat ears to make out that kind of difference between the two. But it takes balls the size of a football to say that

 

[Analogous]

Over the years I've made virtual friends in the forums, whose ears I deeply trust. I depend mostly on their experiences and upgrades to guide my own.

Finding some experienced, discerning audio enthusiasts whose sound preferences are similar to our own is valuable indeed. I have found their recommendations to be of immense value, specially when it comes to synergy and matching components. But there seems to be no short cuts other than trying out and listening to a variety of set ups to discover our preferred sound signature/characteristics.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Finding some experienced, discerning audio enthusiasts whose sound preferences are similar to our own is valuable indeed. I have found their recommendations to be of immense value, specially when it comes to synergy and matching components. But there seems to be no short cuts other than trying out and listening to a variety of set ups to discover our preferred sound signature/characteristics.

I think the other person needn't have our same exact listening tastes all the time. I've been using Bluetooth to stream to my dac for a few years now. The last time I tried some lumin, don't know which one. But it was a streamer cum dac with an external lumin power supply. I tried it both as a dac and digital transport into my dac. But couldn't make out any difference between the lumin and Bluetooth. So I've never been bothered to upgrade my digital transport. There are two people I trust, who were similarly disappointed in the past like me. They recently auditioned a few streamers and were impressed with the Innous zenith mk3. So that's confirmation enough for me to try and fine one.

 

[amit11]

One set or type of reviews i somehow cannot trust much (especially on YouTube) are those people who go on-and-on verbally providing reviews about a particular product (e.g. DAC), highlighting its features, sound etc


But they don't even take effort 1 min, to do a simple recording or a sound demo on it, which matters ultimately.

Such people have received this item mainly for the purpose of publicity of that item, and they try to avoid negative words in their reviews. They may do comparison while speaking saying X and Y, but they will avoid negative words so as not to hurt sentiments of the manufacturer.

Now i am not saying this kind of verbal reviews, all are like that. Some may be genuine aswell. But my point is no sound demo in the review, does not help much to me. It is like trying to verbally describe the taste of water bottle Bisleri vs Aquafina for example...

 

[Analogous]

One set or type of reviews i somehow cannot trust much (especially on YouTube) are those people who go on-and-on verbally providing reviews about a particular product (e.g. DAC), highlighting its features, sound etc


But they don't even take effort 1 min, to do a simple recording or a sound demo on it, which matters ultimately.

Such people have received this item mainly for the purpose of publicity of that item, and they try to avoid negative words in their reviews. They may do comparison while speaking saying X and Y, but they will avoid negative words so as not to hurt sentiments of the manufacturer.

Now i am not saying this kind of verbal reviews, all are like that. Some may be genuine aswell. But my point is no sound demo in the review, does not help much to me. It is like trying to verbally describe the taste of water bottle Bisleri vs Aquafina for example...

I read somewhere that copyrighted music clips can not be played back without paying or permission longer than 3 second clips. If true this could be a reason

 

[keith_correa]

But it takes balls the size of a football to say that

And an appointment with the urologist may also be due.

But my point is no sound demo in the review, does not help much to me. It is like trying to verbally describe the taste of water bottle Bisleri vs Aquafina for example...

Are you saying that if the reviewers played a track recorded in their room on the equipment under review it would hold more value to you than what they say?

 

[ZzZzZ]

I think the other person needn't have our same exact listening tastes all the time. I've been using Bluetooth to stream to my dac for a few years now. The last time I tried some lumin, don't know which one. But it was a streamer cum dac with an external lumin power supply. I tried it both as a dac and digital transport into my dac. But couldn't make out any difference between the lumin and Bluetooth. So I've never been bothered to upgrade my digital transport. There are two people I trust, who were similarly disappointed in the past like me. They recently auditioned a few streamers and were impressed with the Innous zenith mk3. So that's confirmation enough for me to try and fine one.

I double this thought, I am mainly using apple music and spotify as source for music and have tried using Bluetooth LDAC / SBC / AAC, Android devices (Samsung mobile and tab) in wired mode using usb c and iOS devices (iphone and ipad) in wired mode using apple lightning to usb a camera connection kit. And finally out of all options I found iOS in wired mode using apple cck yielding best sound quality but second best is surprisingly Bluetooth LDAC thru samsung android devices and not the wired connection using usb c port of same android devices.
Even a little more betterment could be achieved by downloading music on iOS apple music app, rather then streaming.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I double this thought, I am mainly using apple music and spotify as source for music and have tried using Bluetooth LDAC / SBC / AAC, Android devices (Samsung mobile and tab) in wired mode using usb c and iOS devices (iphone and ipad) in wired mode using apple lightning to usb a camera connection kit. And finally out of all options I found iOS in wired mode using apple cck yielding best sound quality but second best is surprisingly Bluetooth LDAC thru samsung android devices and not the wired connection using usb c port of same android devices.
Even a little more betterment could be achieved by downloading music on iOS apple music app, rather then streaming.

Could be dependent on implementation yes. But when I say Bluetooth, iam using a auris blume HD, powered by a 5 V linear power supply ( not the supplied switch mode wall wart which is noisy). And I use optical to my dac to further the isolation. It just sounds just great.

Iam using Bluetooth from Samsung devices as well

 

[manek]

Hype is defined in a dictionary as extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

We experience Publicity and promotion everyday. It could be a product, a movie, a dish, a gadget, a car, a pet, a diet, a public personality…., the list seems endless.

But in our audio hobby, hype is of particular interest and concern. Big companies with deep pockets are able to do this more,while small boutique companies seem to rely on specialist reviewers and audio forums to spread the word.

Note the above definition of the term hype does not imply it’s dishonest or untruthful. Other definitions may vary. We all do however make choices based on information that we find, research or are told (unless we inherit or such)

Given that we all have personal preferences in a highly subjective field and are influenced by peer pressure, how do we make sense of it all and make better choices and decisions on components that will work well together to sound good to our ears and tastes ?

Ok, with the above confounding context set, the question I actually want to ask is “how do you make your decisions when choosing audio components for your set up?”

Good question.
I for one have mostly listened to the pieces of equipment extensively before I buy. And when I do buy Its something I can live with easily for 7+. That means reliability/servicability is paramount.

Focus on tone rather than the artefacts. My music playing well on the system is paramount. I don't quite give a damn if it sounds polite or wrong for genres I dont listen. My definition of “neutral system” is lack of character/personality. I buy my system to listen to my music and not to “hear sounds”.

Authentic source of purchase hence Indian manufacturers are also part of my shortlist. To be honest, some of my most satisfying purchases have been from Indian manufacturers. Used equipment is always welcome from an authentic seller.

A few of my hand picked friends who always put things out there for me consider. Choice is mine and mine alone.

Nothing in the audio chain to me is considered as an investment(including software). That means limited spending and I keep it sensible(my definition may be different from yours) . Very aware of the law of diminishing returns and dont go close to that perimeter. I am patient as whats exotic now could be mainstream 2-3 years from now.

 

[ZzZzZ]

Could be dependent on implementation yes. But when I say Bluetooth, iam using a auris blume HD, powered by a 5 V linear power supply ( not the supplied switch mode wall wart which is noisy). And I use optical to my dac to further the isolation. It just sounds just great.

Iam using Bluetooth from Samsung devices as well

I don't have an auris blume but have verified my finding about LDAC being better sounding on xDuoo XD05Bal and Fiio BTR5 2021 in my portable/transportable headphone/ IEM system. For isolation i use Gustard U18 DDC on my main system using Sonnet Morpheus as dac.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I don't have an auris blume but have verified my finding about LDAC being better sounding on xDuoo XD05Bal and Fiio BTR5 2021 in my portable/transportable headphone/ IEM system. For isolation i use Gustard U18 DDC on my main system using Sonnet Morpheus as dac.

That's nice. Iam curious about these new DDC's. How do you find the gustard. And by any chance have you tried feeding an optical in to the gustard. Would love to know your findings. Thanks

 

[ZzZzZ]

That's nice. Iam curious about these new DDC's. How do you find the gustard. And by any chance have you tried feeding an optical in to the gustard. Would love to know your findings. Thanks

U18 has only usb as input but could output in aes/ebu, optical etc. I tried all connections as output but best sq was from aes/ebu using 110ohm XLR cable, for my dac.

 

[Kannan]

And I use optical to my dac to further the isolation

What is isolated by using the BT receiver as a digital transport?
I too use my FiiO BTA as a digital transport because the Dynaudio speakers being active, do a ADC conversion even if I use the FiiO as a DAC.
So prefer a digital input into the Dynaudio to just keep to one DAC conversion.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

What is isolated by using the BT receiver as a digital transport?
I too use my FiiO BTA as a digital transport because the Dynaudio speakers being active, do a ADC conversion even if I use the FiiO as a DAC.
So prefer a digital input into the Dynaudio to just keep to one DAC conversion.

I was referring to optical providing electrical isolation, as compared to normal USB or coaxial connections.

 

[alladinkachirag]

So since the real question is "How do I make my audio decisions.........." - I would say -
1. getting some real inputs from our family here, and then auditioning the equipment - very important. The forum can give you shortlist, and don't ignore that because from plethora of thousand products they are helping with maybe a handful that we really need to listen. In short, this is immense save on time investment and maybe of course of investment of real money on real product. Very important, else be okay to sift through myriad of products and make the decision.
2. Specific asks - someone wants to upgrade speakers, or amp or streamer, or the lesser loved cables: 1st hand account of people with almost 80% products in the market, giving their buying, listening and ownership impressions along with after sales service. This is very much invaluable. My belief is we cannot find this outside the family. I am saying because people are investing their time to answer a query, posting their reviews, and helping us out.
3. Not afraid to give tangential reviews - Many a times people are gravitated on a product, but the family here is never afraid to provide their tangential point of views. Meaning, not that people would want us to reconsider our decision, but they are certainly encouraging us to make an informed one. This is the best thing I like about the entire process in this forum.

So, I make my audio decisions after shortlisting the products basis this forum, and taking into account all the tangential point of views for a real life listening scenario.

 

[amit11]

And an appointment with the urologist may also be due.

Are you saying that if the reviewers played a track recorded in their room on the equipment under review it would hold more value to you than what they say?

I would give the recording more importance.
A demo is worth a thousands words here.

All of my purchases (baring couple of impulsive purchases), were 100% decided after listening on YouTube demos only, and they have served my decision well. I am mainly looking at the tonality of sound in those demos. I can understand that those demos are not recorded in high quality and that too they are on YouTube, however that is quite sufficient for me to decide whether my ears would finally like that product or not.

 

[Naturelover]

U18 has only usb as input but could output in aes/ebu, optical etc. I tried all connections as output but best sq was from aes/ebu using 110ohm XLR cable, for my dac.

The U18 has two inputs, I believe. USB and BNC.

 

[mbhangui]

I wouldn't take a published review to be worth the paper it is written on .

Most of it is hype. Most of the gushing articles praising a particular equipment are in fact PAID by the manufacturer.

There was this guy in the UK, who claimed that the holo may kitsune pisses all over the bartok. I know a few bartok users who were deeply offended. They were sulking sore for a few days.

I have had my share in this very forum. I especially remember when I posted about a "Made in Hyderabad Power Conditioner" stating that it is nothing but a cheap chinese ciruit with LC circuit and two users challenged to make one and they would buy that from me. One FM went to the extent of saying that the cost of the equipment is never the sum of it's parts citing the example of Apple Iphone. Then there was one user whose costly AMP from PS audio went kaput because of the high voltage from this 'power conditioner' and the comments from one of the owner of this power conditioner was priceless. There was another user from this very forum who was lambasted by few for being critical about this power conditioner. In fact my negative review of the conditioner probably made the manufacturer to come up with V2 version where the entire circuit board was filled with epoxy resin to hide the cheap components. There are many such hyped statements in the audio and medical business. One has to tread carfully when you call out the hype. We have also seen the numerous sale of "Denafrips DACS" in this very forum. The same Denafrips which require 'burnin' to perform adequately as if it has a piston and cylinder like an automobile for the metal to get smoothened. Also remember that these denafrips are R2R dacs without capacitors which do change property after usage. A big thing about users who rave about a particular product is like the 'placebo effect' in medicine. In fact all drugs that undergo trial have to pass the placebo effect trial where the patient doesn't know if he/she is taking a placebo or the real medicine. In audio we have the double blind test. There are many other blanket statements made in the audio world.

1) Valves AMPs are better than solid state. My experience has been contrary. Valve shine only in the mid range. I haven't found tube amps reproducing the stick striking the cymbal accurately. I have found even many AVRs trouncing valve amps in reproducing high end. Maybe > 50 year old ears cannot distinguish that.

Silicon transistor-based amplification technology has come a long way over the years. Listeners who prefer the sound of solid state often cite their ‘clean,’ more detailed sound. Solid state amps can be more robust, durable and power efficient than their tube counterparts. They tend to offer more watts-per-dollar, so to speak, and can pretty much blow tube equipment out of the listening room in terms of sheer power. Bass control, say proponents, is tighter and allows for faster gain control — which results in a more immediate punch and overall presence to the music.

The sound of music played through silicon transistors is crisp and technically more accurate. So much so in fact, that higher-end solid state equipment will give you music replication playback that is as close to original source as is possible, minus any sound coloration. And because the ‘noise-floor’ with transistors is close to nil at 0.005hd (harmonic distortion), they provide an almost distortionless listening experience. This is one reason why electronic and classical music enthusiasts often prefer solid state over tubes.

2) Class A is better than all other class. Class D have come a long way. The switching speeds are easily in Gigahertz range. Class D amps now reproduce sound better than Class A without a single drop of sweat without producing any hearable switching distortion. IME the only advantage of tube amps is that they sound better than solid state when driven beyond the rated capacity where they don't distort so badly.

3) Cables. I need not say more. Just mention the word cable and it is sure to create controversy, fundamentals of electricity be damned.

I'm not saying user's who gush about a particular products are lying. They actually hear a difference when they use a particular Class of AMP, particular power cable, particular interconnect or speaker cable. The brain is so conditioned to believe in something when it has been doctrinated by articles and experience of other users. Just tell a religious person on the existence of god, many of them will go ballistic and countries have gone to war over this. It will take this world some time to know that the only true religion is the Dinka Religion, a 13.7 million years old religion from "God's Own Country".

In the end it is just yourself who needs to believe in hype or not to believe. It is your money so do whatever gives you the maximum pleasure. if I were to start again, I would rather buy a speaker/crossover designed by Hari Iyer, Vineeth Kumar with carpentry by Aeroash/Sadik and amp made by one of our own FM.