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I couldn't find what I need yet. Driver suggestion please .....

Audiolab 6000CDT Dedicated CD Transport

yogibear

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Your love affair with the Ahuja FR needs to be broken.....

8” gives vocals that rivals 12”. The vocals from the whizzer cone on many 12” FR suffer from horn loading and 12” FR have very narrow HF dispersion compared to 8” FRs. You don’t need all FR drivers to go down to 80hz for all channels of HT. I suggest except for front and centre, other will do just fine if they sing well till 120hz. What subs are for in HT ? In addition to above, two subs taking up from 80 hz and down to 30hz will be a very nice setup.
 
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Naveenbnc

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I'm still confused on the need here. WTF is the requirement? o_O
:D:D please ignore all the discussions in this thread.
Here is the requirement from my first post#1 ....

I am looking for a cheap and best Full Range driver.
Preferably a Pro Driver with the following qualities.

1. High Sensitivity 90 to 95dB+
2. 8 or 6 Ohms
3. High SPL
4. Should cover highs, good vocals, and should go down to 80hz in an OB or Sealed Box or Ported
5. Should work in a smallest enclosure possible.
6. Driver Size can be 12" or smaller
7. Should be available locally

Here is the next challenge.... :
Should not cost more than 3 to 4k !!!
 

keith_correa

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1. Define a "pro" driver! Why "pro"?
2. High SPL? High? Do I need to say more?
3. Should cover "highs". Can you define a freq spectrum for this?
4. Good vocals? Good? Do I need to say more?
5. Should go down to 80 Hz. Easily doable with many drivers.
6. And "in a smallest enclosure possible". Given the right driver, doable! Who determines what "smallest" means? Small in height? Width? Depth?

You are open ended about a lot. Opinions will be never ending given your open ended requirements. Close the loop or else this is going nowhere. Not good for anyone and that includes you.
 

yogibear

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He is looking for a driver which is 8-12” size, 95dB plus, 8 ohms, Qts 0.35 or less (small box), does 80hz to 16-17khz and costs under 5k a pair. Pretty tall call ! Who would not want one ?

I would still insist that you take a serious look at your AVR first or get hold of one with nice amp section. A driver does not have good vocals and bass on its own but need a nice set of components before it.

I also suspect that your dipole Open Baffle Horn loaded bass project did not deliver as expected despite a very nice driver because of your amp and crossover section.
 

Naveenbnc

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1. Define a "pro" driver! Why "pro"?
2. High SPL? High? Do I need to say more?
3. Should cover "highs". Can you define a freq spectrum for this?
4. Good vocals? Good? Do I need to say more?
5. Should go down to 80 Hz. Easily doable with many drivers.
6. And "in a smallest enclosure possible". Given the right driver, doable! Who determines what "smallest" means? Small in height? Width? Depth?

You are open ended about a lot. Opinions will be never ending given your open ended requirements. Close the loop or else this is going nowhere. Not good for anyone and that includes you.
Hi Keith.... Yogibear more or less answered what I'm looking for. The 12" driver i currently have... needs 110L enclosure to give a flat responce !!! That's 14"x16"x40" Ridiculous right ???:D:D

Yogibear gave an answer for small box in terms of Qts. I should have said it in the initial requirements... sorry for the confusion.

After going through many threads, i came to an understanding that pro drivers come with better specs and performance compared to hi-fi drivers in a price bracket. Company websites show both sections separately....(of course the word better can be subjective)

Regarding going down to 80hz .... Not many drivers in my price point can do that in a compact (little bigger than the driver itself) enclosure.... Searching for one.

Regarding good vocals ... I already wrote what I mean in so many earlier threads.... People might have already got fed up with them ....:D:D:D:p:p:p

I guess Yogibear described what I need with better clarity.... Based on that can you point any driver in that budget please.....

So far the following suggestions came from this thread

10gdsh-1-4.
Dayton RS100
Boston Acoustics 8"

Since 10gdsh is more refined and rated power is less....

I would give a try with both Boston Acoustics and Dayton ....

1. Define a "pro" driver! Why "pro"?
2. High SPL? High? Do I need to say more?
3. Should cover "highs". Can you define a freq spectrum for this?
4. Good vocals? Good? Do I need to say more?
5. Should go down to 80 Hz. Easily doable with many drivers.
6. And "in a smallest enclosure possible". Given the right driver, doable! Who determines what "smallest" means? Small in height? Width? Depth?

You are open ended about a lot. Opinions will be never ending given your open ended requirements. Close the loop or else this is going nowhere. Not good for anyone and that includes you.
Screenshot_2018-12-31-09-08-40-761_cn.wps.moffice_eng.png

Screenshot_2018-12-25-21-44-31-304_cn.wps.moffice_eng.jpg

Hi Keith...that's the specs and graph of my existing driver. You can see the Vas and Qts on a higher side. And sensitivity is very nice indeed !! But this needs a large enclosure !!!

The graph rolls of around 200hz and 10k hz
So looking for a driver thats better than this..."in my budget"
 

yogibear

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I do appreciate your DIY enthu and queries. Thats the way to go for a serious DIYer but don't jump on driver purchases so soon. Experimenting is good but I would personally refrain from buying drivers just for the sake of trying them until unless they are really cheap. Further for HT need, don't look for any larger than 8".
 

keith_correa

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Naveen, have you tried contacting the iWai guys with your requirement? They're helpful and they make very nice drivers.
 

Naveenbnc

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Naveen, have you tried contacting the iWai guys with your requirement? They're helpful and they make very nice drivers.
Hey Keith... I'm in regular touch with Iwai...
I have a few Iwai drivers and built 8" and 5.25" bookshelfs with them. But they are two way.... they are surely nice drivers.

I have their 4" full range as well...it is good and performs as expected from it. But its not even close to the one I shared above.....So I'm trying further......:D:D

I do appreciate your DIY enthu and queries. Thats the way to go for a serious DIYer but don't jump on driver purchases so soon. Experimenting is good but I would personally refrain from buying drivers just for the sake of trying them until unless they are really cheap. Further for HT need, don't look for any larger than 8".
I will take your suggestions Yogibear....
@Hari Iyer also suggested the same.... And he gave me an advise to look at the overall setup including amp, source, cables, placement, and everything else. Not to hold on to speakers alone !!

As you said i won't buy drivers unnecessarily. And as you said.... Smaller driver is even more happy to have. I can build slim speakers to fit on either side of my PJ screen.
 
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yogibear

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Naveen, take a good look at you components, particularly the amp, preamp if any, source and spend on wise upgrades first. Don't worry about drivers. I may bail you out on them for HT with seemingly all the aspects you wish for without spending much. No, I don't have any to sell but there are options.

Cables and interconnects can come later and for HT room correction makes a huge difference after you have sorted out components and drivers.
 

keith_correa

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Kannan

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The SPL is an important parameter to choose, but should not be seen in isolation. You have to weigh in the power handling, cone area, excursion and other factors.

With the Dayton RS100, the f3 (3db drop in lowest usable frequency) will be around 70 hz in a vented enclosure of 3 liters.
With some filling or going upto around 3.7 liters, you can get f3 between 60-65hz without any ringing or bloat.
The roll off will start at around 11 khz, and is very smooth.

Ofcourse you room size is also important. It would perform very well with an active sub in a room of floor area upto around 180 sq.ft, and listening distance up to 10 feet.

In my car, I have it is a 1.25 liter enclosure in the dashborad and have crossed it from 315hz at 12 db slope. Cannot go more on the volume due to space constrains, so have a midbass in the doors to compliment it for the lows

Do read this............
6moons review of RS100-4
 
Last edited:

Naveenbnc

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Thank you very much for the suggestions and pointers Keith... :):) that driver looks nice too !!

IMO:
Your speakers WILL make/break your system so concentrate on those first and get them right.
Your room WILL break the sound. :)
How will you look at cables/placement etc. if you don't concentrate on your speakers first? You cannot put the cart before the horse.
Well.....as you said Keith...without building a reasonably ok speakers, I can not look at upgrading any other component in my chain....

The reason is ..... My existing avr has practically given everything i expected with a branded speaker package. My cables, placement, room and every other thing remained the same. I sold my speakers to try diy.

So my first step is to make my own speakers and get similar performance or better, keeping the rest of the chain same.

Only after achieving this.... Further improvement in any other component can be considered. This is fun though :D:D:D

The SPL is an important parameter to choose, but should not be seen in isolation. You have to weigh in the power handling, cone area, excursion and other factors.

With the Dayton RS100, the f3 (3db drop in lowest usable frequency) will be around 70 hz in a vented enclosure of 3 liters.
With some filling or going upto around 3.7 liters, you can get f3 between 60-65hz without any ringing or bloat.
The roll off will start at around 11 khz, and is very smooth.

Ofcourse you room size is also important. It would perform very well with an active sub in a room of floor area upto around 180 sq.ft, and listening distance up to 10 feet.

In my car, I have it is a 1.25 liter enclosure in the dashborad and have crossed it from 315hz at 12 db slope. Cannot go more on the volume due to space constrains, so have a midbass in the doors to compliment it for the lows

Do read this............
6moons review of RS100-4
Thank you so much for the explanation and the link Kannan.... I m sure I'm moving towards my target :):)

don't jump on driver purchases so soon. Experimenting is good but I would personally refrain from buying drivers just for the sake of trying them until unless they are really cheap.
Well .... I have a backup plan to completely stop buying any more drivers for HT.
I can simply use my existing drivers and build a long box with 3 partitions (3 sealed boxes combined) behind my PJ screen.
Box is big and ugly ... but it stays behind the screen ... so no worries ....
But smaller drivers and smaller enclosures make my life lot more easy !!!

The middle bottom image shows the drivers tilted to listening position.
The other work around is to build smallest box possible and use EQ to adjust the sound.

FRONT spk ideas_1.JPG

As you know I made two big boxes already.....I have to discard them anyway due to space constraints.

I can cut them vertically down right at the middle (near that orange line) and make them slim. Tilt them horizontal and mount on the wall. My job is done. Without spending any more money. :D:D
Looks ugly ?? Well yes... But they won't be visible !!!

Screenshot_2018-12-31-13-33-43-484_com.miui.gallery.jpg

with smaller drivers and smaller enclosures ... I may end up something nice like this ....

FRONT spk ideas_2.JPG

I did a basic simulation for the suggested Dayton driver. The following are the results.

db comparison Ahuja and Dayton.JPG



When it comes to spl, sensitivity etc they cant match with my existing driver.
But Small enclosure and small driver is a huge advantage with Daytons. Any way sound signature can be more refined with Daytons which can't be expressed with these numbers..... :cool:

I have to simulate the Boston Acoustics 8" (trying to figure out Vas and other ts parameters) and the other Dayton driver Keith suggested....

(Just for info...)
 

diyaudio

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If your placement is on the wall then a shallow enclosure will be able to utilise the wall as a 'baffle' for extending the lows.

No matter what driver you choose, one thing is for sure, a driver against the wall will need Eq. And once Eq is done by measurement the low Xmax of the driver will be compensated by 'boundary enhancement'.

See th wall mounted Cornu Spiral speaker build at diyaudio.com
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/317463d1355442410-building-cornu-spiral-horn-cornu-06103432579-jpg
 

Naveenbnc

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If your placement is on the wall then a shallow enclosure will be able to utilise the wall as a 'baffle' for extending the lows.

No matter what driver you choose, one thing is for sure, a driver against the wall will need Eq. And once Eq is done by measurement the low Xmax of the driver will be compensated by 'boundary enhancement'.

See th wall mounted Cornu Spiral speaker build at diyaudio.com
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/317463d1355442410-building-cornu-spiral-horn-cornu-06103432579-jpg
Sir I remember your words very well ....
"instead of fighting with the wall...see how you can use it as an advantage" :):)

Measuring equipment is a must for me now, and il try to get one ....
Coming to EQ, my current chain is desktop->avr->speakers.
After getting the measurements, are you suggesting to design and make a physical EQ and add to the driver?
Or you are talking about some EQ software?

just sharing for fun people ....

baffle wall_1.JPG


For my tiny room .... any set like the left image is a big NO !!!
Anything in wall or on wall like the right side images .... will be great ....
These are surely over kill for me ... but they give some kick to move ahead ....:D:D

am I overacting ?? :p:p:D
 

Naveenbnc

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well...in post#18 diyaudio suggested that it needs a helper woofer in FAST deisgn ...

Any way ....dear all.... I did the preliminary simulation for all the drivers suggested.
I tried to keep the graph as flat as possible.
The following are the results ....

Dayton-Ahuja-Boston comparison_1.JPG

When it comes to SPL, Ahuja gives the highest at 114dB, followed by Boston Acoustics, followed by Daton PA130-8 and then Dayton RS100.
Boston acoustics also needs a bigger box to give better performance. But my wild guess is that it performs nearly as good as Sk12FRX.

When it comes to compact enclosure, Daytons are better, followed by Boston Acoustics and then Ahuja needs a large box anyway ...
Dayton PA130 gives reference level SPL (105dB) for HT in a small enclosure. (my understanding subject to correction)
RS100 is a widely used and appreciated driver ASAIK. And obviously mid range might be good as many people say.

As DiyAudio suggested, if there is any chance of getting better results in a small enclosure using EQ,
That would be a nice learning...

Now I have some info I need, and I only have to make a practical choice on which way to go.
This thread gave me clarity and your suggestions helped me a lot !!!
Thanks everyone for all your patience, time, and suggestions !!!:):)

Very grateful to you all ...!!
 

Naveenbnc

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Dear All...

In the last few days... I have been doing some iterations of simulations and studying placement options in my room.
I found the best compromise of my requirement and the resources I have.
I decided to go ahead and build shallow boxes with Sk12Frx.
Basically I will use Ahuja & Boston acoustics (for Atmos) for 7.2 HT

And With Daytons, I will build compact BS or Slim towers for Stereo.
(I didn't like Ahuja for fast beat Music. Daytons may fill that gap)


With 27 L volume enclosure Sk12Frx, delivers what I want in my room.
With this box, it will give an F3 of 88Hz, F10 of 60Hz.
With 20W input power, it can maintain an SPL of 109 db down to 110 hz.
105 dB SPL can be maintained down to 82 Hz.


Setting a crossover freq around 90-100Hz should give best integration with my Subs.

After thinking for a while, I felt that I can not compromise with SPL (for movies) even if I get better refined SQ from other drivers.

The primary compliant I had with Ahuja is Large Enclosures.
But after some study, I identified a box size that I can practically manage, and still get the needed low end.
I will chop off my existing Huge enclosures and make them compact.

It took a while for me to swim through the dilemma, and arrive at a practical solution.
And without your help, its nearly impossible !!! Thanks a lot !! :):)

Regards,
Naveen
 

Naveenbnc

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One of these is going to be my final layout.
The drivers and enclosures in the image are drawn to scale.
Once I cut down the boxes to that size, I will forget about HT for now and focus on compact Stereo speakers.:)



HT setup_3.JPG
 
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