Import price vs Retail price

[ishan_bansal]

https://www.zauba.com/import-av-receiver-denon-hs-code.html
In this link you can see import data for Denon Amplifiers to India. I do not know if I'm reading it correctly or not but there is a HUGE disparity between the import price of a unit and what it Retails for in India. For example the Import price of a Denon x1300 AV receiver is around 16k but it Retails in India for 55k!! Does anyone have any information regarding this? I'm really curious to know how they are sucking us Indians dry.
I looked for other companies as well and I get similar results.

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[Lad1]

I suppose those are Import price.So freight...custom...Gst plus plus

 

[sidvee]

I think if you were to import 175 pieces you will also get for 16k. It is volume discount for a distributor with IEC number. Regardless prices in India are generally high but I am quite sure nobody in the chain distributor/dealer etc are making a killing. In fact I think the market has slowed down after GST which has pushed the prices of these even higher.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[elangoas]

I think if you were to import 175 pieces you will also get for 16k. It is volume discount.
Cheers,
Sid

Even if you add 50% (shipping, duties & other stuff) to 16K, it still is 32K... But retails for 75% more than 35K.. What is that 75% ?

 

[sidvee]

Even if you add 50% (shipping, duties & other stuff) to 16K, it still is 32K... But retails for 75% more than 35K.. What is that 75% ?

Ok so lets assume 32k is landed cost of distributor. He in turns sells to a dealer and lets say he charges 25-30% more. And then dealer sells to consumer and say he charges 25-30% more. That is 50-60% more and as you know getting 10%-15% discount is quite easy with dealers. As much as we think distributors/dealers are becoming rich from this business, let me tell you it is not true. In fact a lot of them are struggling right now. IMO Audio equipment business is very difficult (not TV's, that is another story) in India. If one wants to become rich they need to get into this business:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-govt-may-cap-prices/articleshow/59923080.cms
Cheers,
Sid

 

[elangoas]

Ok so lets assume 32k is landed cost of distributor. He in turns sells to a dealer and lets say he charges 25-30% more. And then dealer sells to consumer and say he charges 25-30% more. That is 50-60% more and as you know getting 10%-15% discount is quite easy with dealers. As much as we think distributors/dealers are becoming rich from this business, let me tell you it is not true. In fact a lot of them are struggling right now. IMO Audio equipment business is very difficult (not TV's, that is another story) in India. If one wants to become rich they need to get into this business:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-govt-may-cap-prices/articleshow/59923080.cms
Cheers,
Sid

The first 50% itself over 16K, for landing cost was lavishly factored.. The actuals will be def less... A container cargo shipping rates are much less when you can do transaction at that size..

And an other 50 - 60% between the distributor and end customer is rather very high when an establishment can sell around 1000 pcs of AVR very year..

 

[sidvee]

The first 50% itself over 16K, for landing cost was lavishly factored.. The actuals will be def less... A container cargo shipping rates are much less when you can do transaction at that size..

And an other 50 - 60% between the distributor and end customer is rather very high when an establishment can sell around 1000 pcs of AVR very year..

I agree audio items costs are among the highest in the world in India, so best bet for someone is to bring by themselves, which I do myself quite often.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[TCHeN]

Forget the retailers and distributors, what we really need is for Amazon to get into the game.

I typically score at least 20% discount on Amazon (when compared to MRP) for even general grocery items. Even if they don't stock/sell high end audio they can still stock/sell a lot of mid-fi stuff in audio, the kind that's easily available on Amazon US.

@sidvee - If what you say is true (and I'm not disputing that) then the only folks really not making a killing are the final dealers. The distributors in the chain are still making a good profit as well as the manufacturers.

Again here the Amazon model will serve us very nicely as they will be low on overheads (when compared to the dealers) and can sell at a regular discount.

 

[raja_mastana]

I recently inquired about a JBL product that costs approx 27,000 in US. The selling price of the dealer here is 25,000 + taxes. The tax of 28% which makes the end price 32,000. So tax is major factor here in India which makes the prices unattractive

 

[elangoas]

Really Just 30K?!

It was 25K until sometime back (June'17)..

 

[elangoas]

Forget the retailers and distributors, what we really need is for Amazon to get into the game.

Until & unless the price of AVR discussed above is offered for 15K in amazon.in with 1 year (manufacturer) warranty, it is not going to shake the market..

Pro FX has been partner for Denon for over a decade in India.. Juz imagine, amazon.in coming in and taking away Pro FX bread & butter.. It just wont happen..

If at all amazon.in is seriously interested in Indian market, they should just rename "Denon to "Xenon" hyeah: (or) bring out a new "Z" series (for India) and sell it exclusively online, so there is no conflict of interest..

But Hifimart.com can at-least try to do something different here.. Denon has two models for US.. The "X" & "S" series.. Hifimart should find out from Denon - Asia Pacific office, if "S" series has 220V model and they should make it exclusively online & undercut physical stores prices..

You got to define, create, build your own eco-system :thumbsup:

 

[nosortf]

It's simple. If you think it's expensive, take a flight, put it in a suitcase and bring it in yourself. Even better, since you are so righteous, commit 2 million dollars to Denon per annum, import it duty paid up, and sell it to all forum members at 25k and non members at 30k. I am sure you will make a killing and have heavy praise come your way for the good work done by you.
If you can do the first option, power to you.
If you can't exercise the second option, best to shut up and allow the person doing it to continue their business, because I believe in putting money where the mouth is.

 

[panditji]

Dear Nosortf, a lot of people do take a flight and bring stuff back in a suitcase themselves because of the huge markup and absolutely zero customer service from most of the hifi dealers.... For most brands, even if you import a single amplifier or a pair of speakers, the total cost is still lower than the Indian dealer price even though you are paying the origin country distributor, dealer, shipping and customs duty....

Of course no Indian distributor would like the data available on Zauba to be made public since it would show the actual cost of importing but as consumers it is fair to share data so as we don't get ripped off.

Why are you asking the moderator or other members to shut up just because they shared the actual cost of the distributors on which they pay customs duty?

 

[ishan_bansal]

Dear Nosortf, We are here to talk about this issue. Suppressing it won't do anything. Obviously, I'm not in this business so that's why I wanted to know what's what. Since alot of countries offer these products at a lesser price and sometimes with longer warranty periods, I just wanted to know why there's a difference in India. Simple.
I myself am considering getting one overseas while I'm travelling so yeah, I'll do that. Don't be a such push over.

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[nosortf]

Please read:
If you can do the suitcase trick, power to you.
If you can't put 2 crores let's keep quiet.
I don't see anything wrong with what I have said.

None of us knows what it takes to run an hifi business successfully in India. Before we judge, please try and do the business and then decide right or wrong. Let's not get an accusation like tone wrt D&D.

Ishanbhai and Panditji with all due respect, don't discuss, just go abroad and buy. Distributors have no time for you and your logic. They make vast sales on a pan India level we cannot dream of. Remember as long as there is a huge majority who are buying at their prices, this discussion is just an entertainment value thing.

 

[nosortf]

Drkrack do you use Tata sky?

 

[greenhorn]

I agree with nosortf here - I think as customers we have become a bit spoilt!
Just because we get great pricing and service for Fast moving electronic goods like mobile phones and laptops, we expect the same for niche and expensive items, which is in my opinion unrealistic. He is not asking anyone to shut up - all he's asking is that if you think if you have a better, put your money where your mouth is, and do it. The us market for hi fi has certain economies of scale that the indian market does not enjoy, and consequently, the prices are higher, and the service is worse. if there was even a hint of a business opportunity here, some IIT - IIM types would have found an excuse to burn some VC money, and help some budget/location challenged enthusiasts like us until they too realize the truth. I mean look no further than hfv's own ecom site - do you think the prices are disruptive ? until demand picks up in india (or someone like reliance decides to throw a *lot* of money into demand creation like uber or jio, things will progress only very slowly)

 

[panditji]

Dear Sir, I have been doing that since the last 10 years but why should I not discuss with other people? Also since the distributors find our discussion entertaining and are already making vast sales pan India, our discussions on this forum will make absolutely no difference to them.. So why stop us from discussing ?

I run a small business importing goods myself as do countless others and I am not even an MBA... When I last checked, I don't think anyone needs a Ph.D in astrophysics to run a hifi business...

As regards the 2 crore point, A number of dealers import 1 or 2 amplifiers/speakers at a time as and when someone places an order with them. Almost none of the dealers/distributors have much stock to audition and they will only get the model you want when you place an order. So where did you get the 2 crore figure sir?
Maybe you don't understand how a simple import business runs but to assume that others also cannot is quite silly on your part... I know the exact cost of goods being imported, the amount of shipping paid, customs duty paid, clearance agent charges, transport charges etc and therefore the profit margin... Simple BODMAS is required to run a hifi import business in India as the other parts of the business like demo rooms, demo products, before and after sales service (99% of the dealers/distributors don't even know the meaning) have no place in the hifi business in India...
So relax and enjoy the entertaining discussion if you have nothing better to do and let us have our fun on a Sunday...

 

[panditji]

Dear greenhorn, the economies of scale was created by the business and not by consumers.. It was unthinkable to spend Rs. 75,000 on a phone 10 years back but some companies worked hard, took some risks and it has now become a fast moving product...

Our country has a huge population of middle income/rich/and very rich people versus the West and we have a rich culture of music and arts and therefore a huge consumer base who like music and have the money.. It is the industry's loss that the segment is not being targeted because of their own lethargy.. If the Indian industry is so slow, why did the current distributors/dealers join this business? Surely there are other businesses where they could sell fast moving products and make tons of cash?

Are distributors/dealers doing the society a favour by importing hifi products ? If they find the business slow and the consumers mean, they have all the freedom and choice of exiting the industry and selling mobile phones as there is huge volume in that line of business.

 

[nosortf]

Dear Panditji since some people here go and check imort value of an item, do take the trouble to see the quantity imporyed too. Do the BODMAS and 2cr will appear wrt to Denon, the brand in discussion and not importers of 1 or 2 small items.
I am less educated than you but I will refrain from being judgmental about others and their capabilities.