Is A.R.Rehman that great?

[shailenderb]

ARR helps dealers sell inferior quality speakers and amps - with his fantastic digital recording. Go to any shop in Chennai they play his music to show how "good" their speakers are. Only when one takes them home and plays "other" recordings would they find their (speakers') real capability / quality.

I am not a great fan of Tamil music, though I listen to a few songs on occasions. Having said that, I must say even after more than 20 years
Ilayaraja's music is reissued for the umpteenth time while ARR's songs have a short shelf-life - with a few exceptions. This is only a neutral and objective observation and not to support one or the other.

Warm Regds / Shailender

 

[neutral]

ARR helps dealers sell inferior quality speakers and amps - with his fantastic digital recording.

Completely agree.

AR Rahman is a very clever marketing driven musician than anything else. He may be capable of great compositions glimpses of which you get to see once in a while.
Most of his music are like the modern Gizmos with a very short shelf life. The biggest problem with his music is that it is based on digital loops. Mostly electronic stuff. Then he goes on to distorting the voices/sound to uplift the inexperienced listener into auditory illusions. Prolonged exposure to these kind of music will cause the listener to start chasing the high like drug addicts do.

 

[psychotropic]

I am a little baffled about people going on about 'electronic loops' and 'digital' production and so on. I don't see how that devalues his merits as a composer in any way.

That is as daft as saying that Jimi Hendrix used an 'electric' guitar and therefore is not a great musician, or that Kraftwerk is not a great band because they used synthesisers. How on earth does it matter what he uses or how he produces his music? The only yardstick on which it is to be judged is how much you can enjoy it when you listen to it, and if it makes you chase it like a drug, then it must be some seriously good shit eh?

Anyways, music is always subjective. I personally can't stand whatever little I've heard of MSV's stuff, but that's probably because he came from an Indian classical background and I am completely unfamiliar with Indian classical music and therefore anything that is based on that would not really appeal to me. Similarly my antithesis would be someone who loves Indian classical and is not as deeply into western music and s/he would find AR Rahman's songs inferior to an MSV or an Ilayaraja. Neither position has any empirical merit, and they are both just expressions of an individual's tastes.

There are as many opinions as there are people and so long as we can all share the music I suppose it's all good Comparing one musician to another is a completely pointless exercise simply because how an individual consumes and enjoys music is shaped by a myriad of factors which tends to be unique and different from individual to individual. One man's meat...

 

[gobble]

Here's my 5 cents....as much as I admire Illayaraja and the musical genius he was. I dont think he ever pushed musical boundaries or cultural barriers he was pretty much stuck to his native style. ARR is a game changer who in lot of ways made everything that came before him irrelavant. Ground breaking musician who's way bigger than most us can imagine - a cultural icon. I dont think anyone needs to post his best songs or compositions here. He's way beyond .......

You forgot the 70's music of Bollywood with many Goan musicians contributing Latin and Jazzy styles to Hindi film music. I would not confuse economic breakthrough with cultural. A lot of youngsters have jobs with disposable incomes and more people jive to western style music today than a few decades back. Then there is the immense media propaganda machine in India that over-hypes everything for profit and vested interests.

Anyways having said this it does not mean that I will not spend a few 100 rupees on buying ARR CD's for temporal pleasures. His music can be lilting and enjoyable and thats all that matters.
Cheers

 

[ashwin59]

Hi tropic,

'how an individual consumes and enjoys music is shaped by a myriad of factors which tends to be unique and different from individual to individual. One man's meat...'

After stating the above why should you get baffled i don't know.I can also find no merit in your reasoning that unfamiliarity with classical music makes you 'can't stand(??) for MSV'. Do you think all those who enjoys MSV are familiar with classical music? Well most of them are not. So like you found a reason not to like MSV, people may have 'myraid' reasons not to like his music.So nothing to get baffled about it.

Regards,...

 

[psychotropic]

Let me clarify the distinction. On the one hand there is stating a preference, and on the other hand there is criticism. I stated that I do not like MSV's music but I did not criticise his composition or his style or anything at all about him. I merely explained the reason why I think his music does not appeal to me. What I find baffling is to pick out a composer's method and suggest/imply that it is inferior or defective in some manner. Of course everyone has the right to do that, just as I have the right to be baffled by it

Again, I completely appreciate you finding it baffling (or finding 'no merit') that I don't like MSV on account of not having a background in classical music. The right to express bafflement is an inalienable part of the right to freedom of expression

Hi tropic,

'how an individual consumes and enjoys music is shaped by a myriad of factors which tends to be unique and different from individual to individual. One man's meat...'

After stating the above why should you get baffled i don't know.I can also find no merit in your reasoning that unfamiliarity with classical music makes you 'can't stand(??) for MSV'. Do you think all those who enjoys MSV are familiar with classical music? Well most of them are not. So like you found a reason not to like MSV, people may have 'myraid' reasons not to like his music.So nothing to get baffled about it.

Regards,...

 

[anandkrishnantc]

I dont have much idea about Ilayaraja, but I cant listen to Rahman's songs for a long time like Carnatic. Its music for current time. Not for a long generations to generations.

 

[swami69]

Both are great composers in their time and as said, individual's listening tastes differs and hence favour one over the other. That being said, on a personal note, i listened and will keep listening to some great songs like Senthazhampoovil, Johny songs, Nizhalgal songs and many more for ever from Ilayaraja. In that similar comparison, those great songs are fewer in number from ARR which can be enjoyed for several years to come.

In my humble opinion, a great music has to be enjoyed over generations and not end within a timeframe. If it ends, it is a short term burst and means it has not touched your inner feeling and the urge to listen to it dies over a period.

That way, Ilayaraja has produced great numbers and many of them for generations to enjoy.

While saying this, i listen to Ahista Ahista by ARR from Swades almost everyday as i like it so much. Long live both of them and continue to feed us with good music.

swami

 

[suri]

I am a little baffled about people going on about 'electronic loops' and 'digital' production and so on. I don't see how that devalues his merits as a composer in any way.

That is as daft as saying that Jimi Hendrix used an 'electric' guitar and therefore is not a great musician, or that Kraftwerk is not a great band because they used synthesisers. How on earth does it matter what he uses or how he produces his music? The only yardstick on which it is to be judged is how much you can enjoy it when you listen to it, and if it makes you chase it like a drug, then it must be some seriously good shit eh?

Anyways, music is always subjective. I personally can't stand whatever little I've heard of MSV's stuff, but that's probably because he came from an Indian classical background and I am completely unfamiliar with Indian classical music and therefore anything that is based on that would not really appeal to me. Similarly my antithesis would be someone who loves Indian classical and is not as deeply into western music and s/he would find AR Rahman's songs inferior to an MSV or an Ilayaraja. Neither position has any empirical merit, and they are both just expressions of an individual's tastes.

There are as many opinions as there are people and so long as we can all share the music I suppose it's all good Comparing one musician to another is a completely pointless exercise simply because how an individual consumes and enjoys music is shaped by a myriad of factors which tends to be unique and different from individual to individual. One man's meat...

superbly said!- and "then it must be some seriously good shit eh?" was really good shit!!

 

[gobble]

I dont have much idea about Ilayaraja, but I cant listen to Rahman's songs for a long time like Carnatic. Its music for current time. Not for a long generations to generations.

Well said. I feel exactly the same.

@Psycho - its not criticsm as in a put down. We are just hobnobbing in a virtual get together with virtual wine or whiskey glasses or tea cups in hand and getting to know the preferences of others. ...

Cheers

 

[evanoruvan]

There is a tendancy to look at the past with dollops of nostalgia. Undeniably, songs from Johny are real gems (was hearing katril endhan geetham the other day - beautiful beautiful number) but so are more recent Rahman numbers like Anbendra Mazhayille or Lukka Chuppi. It is possible that through the colored glass of nostalgia, one might seem better due to its age.

There might come a time when Rahman numbers are seen as old gems ..

(Lest this be construed as a comment favoring one over the other - I like and love both!)

 

[longshanks]

Hai Suri,

To sum it up :

Ilaiyaraaja = Vinyl record

AR Rehman = Compact Disc

The CD is only superior till one hears the Vinyl , once you hear the Vinyl, the opinion about CD is altered.

Not a worthy comparison. you cant compare two recording medium with two composers.I think you are a Illayaraja fan, like i said, music is one's own personal preference so if you like a particular artist then stick with it but, don't criticize others.

lets come to the comparison of CD and vinyl, are you saying that even the song that you hate to the core will sound good on vinyl and make you want to listen again and again? if yes, then i want to differ, cause if i like a song then i would not bother to listen to it in cassette or CD or 64kbps mp3 all day rather than listening to a song i hate on vinyl.

If illyaraja is vinyl then what you would call KVM ,MSV,SD Burman,Naushad or Ramachandra?

This is classic generation talk ,like i said earlier in my post my dad hates both illayaraja and rehman's music and adores KVM,MSV and now the same thing is repeating. Only when one throws away this praising a particular artist to godly status and dismissing others, one can start to enjoy music without boundaries.


Any composer or artist who is in this planet is great IMO, cause he always will have a group of people who would like his music very much, if one dismisses his talent saying that he is bad and just that you don't like it, then one is missing the basic human nature of respecting the fellow human's personal Choice.There could be several other things wich can be measured ,rated and tested to state it is the best, but music is not one of them.

 

[nirrej]

The compositions of any Composer in India depends a lot
on the Movie Director whom they are working with.
The taste and music knowledge of the Director is very vital here.

If you see both Illayaraja and Rahman's compositions, for director's
like Maniratnam, K.B, etc you will see that they have scored music for them,which is far superior and long lasting.

Just like how you can't compare Gavaskar and Tendulkar these two cannot
be compared. Both are from different genres. Gavaskar was from the "Test Era" and Tendulkar from the "One day Era". When Illayaraja ruled it was fashionable to make rural themed movies and Illayaraja's music was best suited. Now movies are made for the multiplex crowd and no one better for it than ARR.
Can you imagine a "Mudhal Mariyadhai" without Illayaraja's music or can you imagine "Alaipayuthe" without ARR music...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
As many people have been saying "SLUMDOG" soundtrack is not trash.
It is designed to gel with the mood of the movie, which is upliftment of your
senses, when everyone's mood was down because of the global recession.
The soundtrack isn't great to listen in a audio system. but it sounds great alongwith the visuals and thatz what a BG is exactly supposed to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[square_wave]

I think the problem with Indian popular music in general is excess. There are too many songs being made to cater to endless number of mindless movies that are being made. And there is a tremendous amount of moolah to be made. Much of AR Rahmans music falls into this category. It is of no surprise that many sound repetitious and sometimes mundane. He is a great composer when it comes to popular music. There are some gems too

I would not compare him with composers of classical / Jazz /Rock etc The question is not which is better. The treatment and thought process behind these genres are different. We will be comparing apples to oranges if we do a comparison.

I personally do not like music created on the computer. Musicians in life and blood creating music together, adding spontaneous creativity and sometimes flaws define what is music for me. Each to his own

 

[square_wave]

The compositions of any Composer in India depends a lot
on the Movie Director whom they are working with.
The taste and music knowledge of the Director is very vital here.

If you see both Illayaraja and Rahman's compositions, for director's
like Maniratnam, K.B, etc you will see that they have scored music for them,which is far superior and long lasting.

Just like how you can't compare Gavaskar and Tendulkar these two cannot
be compared. Both are from different genres. Gavaskar was from the "Test Era" and Tendulkar from the "One day Era". When Illayaraja ruled it was fashionable to make rural themed movies and Illayaraja's music was best suited. Now movies are made for the multiplex crowd and no one better for it than ARR.
Can you imagine a "Mudhal Mariyadhai" without Illayaraja's music or can you imagine "Alaipayuthe" without ARR music...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
As many people have been saying "SLUMDOG" soundtrack is not trash.
It is designed to gel with the mood of the movie, which is upliftment of your
senses, when everyone's mood was down because of the global recession.
The soundtrack isn't great to listen in a audio system. but it sounds great alongwith the visuals and thatz what a BG is exactly supposed to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. Movie soundtracks and music created for the sake of music are entirely different.

 

[gobble]

There is a tendancy to look at the past with dollops of nostalgia. Undeniably, songs from Johny are real gems (was hearing katril endhan geetham the other day - beautiful beautiful number) but so are more recent Rahman numbers like Anbendra Mazhayille or Lukka Chuppi. It is possible that through the colored glass of nostalgia, one might seem better due to its age.

There might come a time when Rahman numbers are seen as old gems ..

(Lest this be construed as a comment favoring one over the other - I like and love both!)

Well I never listened to Illyaraja compositions during my raging hormone period, only in the last 6 months post 30yrs age. So I dont see how appreciation of what one finds intellectually aesthetic (Illyaraja) compares with desire for consumer goods.

Regards

 

[venkatcr]

I visualise a song without its music and play it back in my mind. The ones that i can really relate to are the ones which haunt you even without the instruments.

In that test Kannalane, Maula, Khwaja, Pudhiya Mugam all stand out with immeasurable appeal. Rang de basanti is a class act too, especially the way Rehman oscillates between the irrevent energy of Paatshala, the spirutual energy of Ik onkar and the rustic energy of range de.

I cant say the same about Chikku Bukku or similiar ones. He seems to be so capable of captivating you as well as disappointing you. He really seems to come to his own if the movie has a different theme. For the formula movies he seems to have formula music too.

Some songs make sense only in a particularly situation in the movie. The lyrics and music are tuned for that particularly scene. If you listen to the song outside, you may not like it. There are some songs that are superb by themselves, but turn out to be pathetic in the movies. Let me give you a few examples.

In the movie Pagla Kahin Ka, there is a Mohd. Rafi Song titled, 'Mere Bhains Ko Danda Kyo Mara'. When you hear the song you will wonder about the lyrics and the tune. But, when you see it in the movie, it has been rendered beautifully with Shammi Kapoor and a few others all acting as mad people. You actually smile at the way the actors enact scenes to fit the lyrics exactly.

On the contrary, recently in Tamil, there is a beautiful song sung by Bombay Jayshree and Sunita Sarathy in the film Modhi Vilyadu. The song, 'Paadhi Kadal, Paadhi Muththam Poradhu Poradhu', has been sung beautifully by the pair with good music playing along. This is a song that I have heard hundreds of times, with the record being 50 times in just one day. You see the scene in the movie, and it will not make any sense at all. There are two young girls gyrating on the scene with one of them even coming down a full staircase on her back!

I feel similarly about 'Ennavale Adi Ennavale'. Unni sang the song with so much passion, and Prabhu jerked it away stupidly in the movie. But then, the Director made a mistake. This song was not suited for an actor like Prabhu.

Making the two meet needs an excellent director, and an actor/actress who understands the nuance of the song and enacts it passion. That is becoming a rare commodity nowadays.

Cheers

 

[ashwin59]

Let me clarify the distinction. On the one hand there is stating a preference, and on the other hand there is criticism. I stated that I do not like MSV's music but I did not criticise his composition or his style or anything at all about him. I merely explained the reason why I think his music does not appeal to me. What I find baffling is to pick out a composer's method and suggest/imply that it is inferior or defective in some manner. Of course everyone has the right to do that, just as I have the right to be baffled by it

Again, I completely appreciate you finding it baffling (or finding 'no merit') that I don't like MSV on account of not having a background in classical music. The right to express bafflement is an inalienable part of the right to freedom of expression

Hi tropic,
I think the words 'can't stand' is not criticism i don't know what is. You should also realize that you have also chosen a 'method' of a composer(basing his composition on classical music)to not to like MSV.And your reasoning that people familiar with classical will like MSV and who are deep into western will like ARR is not correct IMHO. (Again you will come back and say u have the right to say so).So this can go on.

And every one has the right like you and has freedom of expression to state why they find the songs of some composers inferior to others.

Regards

 

[evanoruvan]

Well I never listened to Illyaraja compositions during my raging hormone period, only in the last 6 months post 30yrs age. So I dont see how appreciation of what one finds intellectually aesthetic (Illyaraja) compares with desire for consumer goods.

Regards

Romanticizing the past is not just restricted to consumer goods (that particular article may have focussed on that). It is certainly prevalent in intellectual aesthetic pursuits as well.

(PS: As with anything else, that may not be the one single reason. Nevertheless it is a factor to keep in mind)

 

[gobble]

Romanticizing the past is not just restricted to consumer goods (that particular article may have focussed on that). It is certainly prevalent in intellectual aesthetic pursuits as well.

(PS: As with anything else, that may not be the one single reason. Nevertheless it is a factor to keep in mind)

Sorry but still didn't get it .. sorry. What does appreciation of aesthetics from an intellectual standpoint have to do with popularity ratings of movies?

Never mind ... its not important.

Cheers