is there any benefits opting for an amp with a Toroidal transformer

Join HiFiMART Telegram Channel for offers & deals

subhash

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,668
Points
83
Location
bangalore
Is there any advantages of opting for an amp (stereo/multichannel) with a TOROIDAL TRANSFORMER ?
AS i have seen a lot of newer amps which stress that they are equiped with a toroidal transformer

cud our members kindly explain
 

IndianEars

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
952
Points
93
Location
Mumbai
A Torroidal transformer uses a Doughnut shaped core & is much slimmer ( smaller height) than a conventional (E-I) transformer.

The torroidal transformer creates a very low external disturbance, since its magnetic field is contained within its self.

It provides large peak currents... well beyond its rating, but it draws huge current surges on switch on ( you can often see yr room lights dim, when you switch on an amplifier with a Torroidal transformer).

Needs a special and expensive machine to make it.

Needs special mounting arrangement to mount it .

It is more expensive than a conventional transformer. Hence for an amplifier designer, for his transformer budget, could use a 100 VA torroid or a 140 VA conventional transformer. Which would You use :indifferent14: ? ( the 100 / 140 number are purely for illustration purpose only).

Many companies ( eg AYRE) are against the use of Torroidal transformers for their low power stuff like CD players, pre amps etc.. even power amps.

Torroids are often used for their slimmer profile, which yields slim line products.

Hope this helps
 

subhash

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,668
Points
83
Location
bangalore
A Torroidal transformer uses a Doughnut shaped core & is much slimmer ( smaller height) than a conventional (E-I) transformer.

The torroidal transformer creates a very low external disturbance, since its magnetic field is contained within its self.

It provides large peak currents... well beyond its rating, but it draws huge current surges on switch on ( you can often see yr room lights dim, when you switch on an amplifier with a Torroidal transformer).

Needs a special and expensive machine to make it.

Needs special mounting arrangement to mount it .

It is more expensive than a conventional transformer. Hence for an amplifier designer, for his transformer budget, could use a 100 VA torroid or a 140 VA conventional transformer. Which would You use :indifferent14: ? ( the 100 / 140 number are purely for illustration purpose only).

Many companies ( eg AYRE) are against the use of Torroidal transformers for their low power stuff like CD players, pre amps etc.. even power amps.

Torroids are often used for their slimmer profile, which yields slim line products.

Hope this helps

have observed that it draws huge current when switched on (something like when u switch on an heating appliance ,eg geyser) have seen this happen when i switch on my power amp with the toroidal transformer

so this does mean that the toroids provide abundant/more current supply to the amp --which i think is definetly good for the amp

by this i suppose the amp with a toroidal transformer will not run out of breath when pushed to its limits?

also the SQ i guess wud be better in an amp with toroidal transformer??
 

IndianEars

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
952
Points
93
Location
Mumbai
Yes, you are correct on all counts.

A torroidal transformer will supply somewhat higher peak power, for BRIEF duration. ( Strictly speaking, in-rush current at switch on is not the same thing as peak power delivering capability )

Keep in mind that since the torroid is Rather more expensive, a conventional transformer of 25% to 40% higher capacity can be put in the equipment, for the same Budget. That Conventional transformer of higher capacity will put out even more jice than a Torroidal transformer, of the same price.

Many designers feel that the torroidal transformer lends a particular sound... some swear by it... others against it !
 
Last edited:

corElement

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
2,429
Points
113
Location
gurgaon / Delhi / NCR
jamo_avr_dvd_paket.jpg


AMP I have - Jamo AVR-693. What it lacks in features, it makes up
with sound quality. I can tell you... a massive toroidal transformer
and high grade capacitors: 4 x 10,000 F makes a big difference
when it comes to controlling the sound delivery. I got it for 25k and
even though you have the denon 16xx at 30k I got it because of
its specs and the quality/control of sound. End of the day it does not
matter - only matters if you can go +30 or under 30. under 30 unless
you find a rare real or old piece you can consider them to be a bit
underpowered for full tower speakers but fine for stuff like wharfdale 9.1's.

Point : if youre going to watch movies and listen to music at a high
volume on towers, you want a toroid to drive them.
 

IndianEars

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
952
Points
93
Location
Mumbai
R U suggesting that no 100 Watt amp uses a Non Torroid ? ?

Or that its No good without a torroid ? ? ?
 

corElement

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
2,429
Points
113
Location
gurgaon / Delhi / NCR
Wattage dosnt determine if it uses a toroi.

It depends model to model. But generally for tower speakers even though 1 watt determines only the amount of power it consumes and not the efficiency if you have a high end tower with a big range frequency that goes down to 30hz and few thousand above 20khz they need better controlled power source. If the towers have only few meds and highs they'll be fine on a say 80-90w amp.

So it depends on what speakers you want to drive if you want toroi or not.
 

subhash

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,668
Points
83
Location
bangalore
R U suggesting that no 100 Watt amp uses a Non Torroid ? ?

Or that its No good without a torroid ? ? ?

this exactly is my Q . as corelement has rightly said if u want to drive large demanding towers to full potential then i suppose a high powered amp with a toroidal transformer will be more efficient ?? as the power supply to the amp will be efficient via the toroids to meet the demands of the amp when pushed to limits--(just my thots)
 

corElement

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
2,429
Points
113
Location
gurgaon / Delhi / NCR
this exactly is my Q . as corelement has rightly said if u want to drive large demanding towers to full potential then i suppose a high powered amp with a toroidal transformer will be more efficient ?? as the power supply to the amp will be efficient via the toroids to meet the demands of the amp when pushed to limits--(just my thots)

Correct because a high power amp will have to balance power with efficiency, a low power amp will need you to increase the volume to drive large towers ( especially if youre running a 4ohm or 6ohm speaker on an 8ohm general amp )

For many a lower power amp at high volume to drive towers is fine because they don't listen to them often. But if you regularly listen to stuff and like
tower speakers to delivery clarity starting at lower volumes and maintain it through high volumes, you're looking at a high efficiency amp.

This is a subjective decision of what kind of data your ears pick up at lower volumes or if you prefer only high volumes.
 
Last edited:

subhash

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,668
Points
83
Location
bangalore
jamo_avr_dvd_paket.jpg


AMP I have - Jamo AVR-693. What it lacks in features, it makes up
with sound quality. I can tell you... a massive toroidal transformer
and high grade capacitors: 4 x 10,000 F makes a big difference
when it comes to controlling the sound delivery. I got it for 25k and
even though you have the denon 16xx at 30k I got it because of
its specs and the quality/control of sound. End of the day it does not
matter - only matters if you can go +30 or under 30. under 30 unless
you find a rare real or old piece you can consider them to be a bit
underpowered for full tower speakers but fine for stuff like wharfdale 9.1's.

Point : if youre going to watch movies and listen to music at a high
volume on towers, you want a toroid to drive them.

never really knew that Jamos manufactured AVRS
 

subhash

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,668
Points
83
Location
bangalore
Correct because a high power amp will have to balance power with efficiency, a low power amp will need you to increase the volume to drive large towers ( especially if youre running a 4ohm or 6ohm speaker on an 8ohm general amp )

For many a lower power amp at high volume to drive towers is fine because they don't listen to them often. But if you regularly listen to stuff and like
tower speakers to delivery clarity starting at lower volumes and maintain it through high volumes, you're looking at a high efficiency amp.

This is a subjective decision of what kind of data your ears pick up at lower volumes or if you prefer only high volumes.

this again is true , as i shifted to a higher powered power amp (vincent SP331MK) with a huge toroidal , also claimed as an hybrid with the first 10 watts being class A , i have noticed a lot of difference from my older stereo amp. With the toroidal amp ,i can drive @ much higher levels without any problems of running out of breath ,also theres very less amt of heat generated in the power amp even when driven at crazy levels for long periods
 

psychotropic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
2,784
Points
83
Location
Chennai, India
thank you for this....this is exactly the kind of gyan i keep looking for and rarely find.....you should write a book cranky.....a practical guide to the ins and outs of high-end audio....something like that......which will be useful for people generally interested in components and as a reference guide for someone looking to get into, or already into DIY.

@JamoGuy: 40,000uF is actually not much, not for a 5-speaker receiver. I'm looking at a tiny little Pioneer receiver that cost me 10K, and it has 30,000uF total, so not that far behind. And you don't even want to know how much capacitance we use in stereo amps we build - a Pass Labs clone of the F5 I built uses 160,000 uF of capacitance - and for just 25 watts a channel.
 
Top