Legendary Speaker Designer Says Hi-Fi Accuracy Is a Myth and the “Perfect Sound” Doesn’t Exist

Analogous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
3,684
Points
113
Location
Bangalore
“accuracy” can’t be pinned down universally, preference trends do exist. Still, no single tuning works for everyone.“

Multiple experts have shared their insights on this:
  • Karlheinz Brandenburg, who helped invent the MP3, says we’re still limited by human hearing. Even perfect digital files end up going through analog parts, like the DACs, amps, speakers, and rooms, that add their own flaws.
  • Audio engineer John Watkinson also pointed this out years ago. You can start with a perfect signal, but once it hits the real world, it’s not perfect anymore.
  • Dr. Earl Geddes adds even more layers: your position in the room, speaker direction (polar response), and reflections from walls or ceilings all change the sound. It’s different at every seat.
  • Joshua Reiss ran studies comparing high-res audio to CD quality. His results? There’s a difference, but it’s small, and it only stands out in controlled settings. Most people wouldn’t notice during everyday listening.
  • Dr. Sean Olive’s research also found that listeners don’t always agree, but there are strong patterns. Many people preferred a slight bass boost and smooth treble, which is the basis of the Harman target curve.

Every design choice has a cost

Jones and others often talk about the “triangle” of speaker design. If you push for one goal, you usually give up something else.
Here’s what that looks like in practice:
Goal What You GainWhat You Give Up
Deep bassLow-end extensionEfficiency or small size
Small cabinetCompact designBass depth or efficiency
High sensitivityEasy-to-drive speakerBass output or compact size

You can’t have all three at once. Want a small speaker with deep bass and high output? Physics says no.

There are more such insights. Read here:
 
Over time..this has been my inference too

A. No single system is a "do it all".

B. Thats why folks change components a lot..atleast those who can afford to...

Some find joy in chasing a Mirage

Others find joy in the knowledge that a Mirage is a Mirage after all

Some Others like me have learnt to find joy in bring a frog in your own well

:-))
 
Over time..this has been my inference too

A. No single system is a "do it all".

B. Thats why folks change components a lot..atleast those who can afford to...

Some find joy in chasing a Mirage

Others find joy in the knowledge that a Mirage is a Mirage after all

Some Others like me have learnt to find joy in bring a frog in your own well

:-))
And this is so simple to understand. Take a look at the list of components at different mastering studios - they all have different set of equipment and on top of that, a pair of ears is what is making the final judgement. Let us just take the speakers, some monitor on standmount and then some on large speakers and we know these will sound different.

With so many variables now, it is just not right to expect perfection.
 
And what I have experienced as well.
Cheers,
Sid
 
So, we are left with the basic question: how do I define my audio goals so I can try to get components to get close to this goal?
 
So, we are left with the basic question: how do I define my audio goals so I can try to get components to get close to this goal?
For me at-least, the goal post for an ideal audio system sound reproduction keeps moving. Started with 80s pop right at the commercial advent of cds, moved to 90s rock/heavy metal, to blues in the late 90s, to classic jazz in the early 2000s, and holding steady there, albeit listening to new age jazz extensively as well. Every time my tastes changed, so did the system. Currently what I own, I feel, does justice to what I hear, within my means. I can throw a few more zero's at it if I could afford it. So if your music tastes are settled, then build your system around it. However if you listen to diverse genres, then atleast for me there is no other option, then having multiple components that serve that particular choice the best. And even within genres, some eqpt. will have an entirely different presentation. I think to sum it up, atleast ime, getting the right components for an ideal system, is a journey, one that has to be enjoyed, without an end really (well atleast till we become immobile or sick or when it's time to go meet our maker).
Cheers,
Sid
 
So, we are left with the basic question: how do I define my audio goals so I can try to get components to get close to this goal?
All I can say is what I came-up with for myself.

Write things down--a few bullet attributes, and RANK them. Then just keep listening. If you hate something, that means you might like the opposite, etc. Either way, it's important so write it down.

If you don't know where to start, start on the speaker end, stay on that one piece. You don't need to write a book--stay simple. 3 or 5 "gotta haves", jot them down and add/change them if they change. The most important thing is to Rank them as priorities in order. And keep listening. Once you start a list, it changes how you listen (intentionally or not). Just notice things that you like or don't like (or wish you had), that's all--and go about your daily life.

Personally, I just kept a little notebook. Took me about 2.5 years, give or take, for my list to stop changing. Part of that was going through a lot of speakers that were cheap/local but I've also always DIY'd. Couple-three amps and more DIY tube crap, etc. I kept notes from those things. Couple times a year I'd drag-out whatever was around and make a session out of it and another set of notes from head-to-head things. That helped a lot. Years earlier, I'd joined the local audio society and got to hear the expensive gear, that way.

If you don't know where to start on speakers, start with bass--exactly how low Must you have from your loudspeakers before it doesn't bother you. However you wish to do that--F3, F6, F10/slope whatever. Maybe you listen to EDI/dub/modern stuff that *needs* low-lows, maybe you're in an apartment and can't have any w/o hearing about it from neighbors, etc. Whatever your situation, that's something that goes on the list. Either way, you instantly know something about your own list.

IMO, the only way to peace is to know that what you've traded-away (say efficiency for size+extension) is less important to you than the other two things. Your own personal list fixes that--so you know that chasing for the thrill of the chase is just you being human and not a fault with your gear. A car is not a truck--they're different tools for different jobs. If you wanted something different, you'd have a different list. This presupposes you know what things are traded for what other things, but that can come in time, too--or just post and somebody else can help, too.

So yeah--agreed that there's no accuracy or Santa Claus, but once you know that, you're free. Everything sounds like something and not like something else. The only thing that matters is whether it pleases you or not. Audio == food. None of us would force our food prefs on someone else. So in the food analogy, audio is cooking. It's easy to cook when you know what you want--the recipe and groceries "fall out".

One more point: If you are going after "source stuff", use "microscope" speakers. Two ways I've found, depending on what you're trying to hear: (1) straight wire into very-much non-flat unbaffled "fullrangers" like Fostex/etc and (2) high-sensitivity (100dB+) speakers. For sources, (2) works better, IMO. For say power supplies/filters, and/or individual discrete parts (say coupling caps), I've had better luck with live clip leads and (1). FWIW.
 
So, Defining our audio goals depends on:
Knowing ourselves and our musical choices/ preferences well.
Being aware that this could change over time.
It’s easier if the preferences in music work well within the attributes of a particular type of set up (as detailed by @grindstone, @sidvee and @square_wave
If the musical preferences are across several generes and choices an option is to have multiple set ups that perform well and bring out the best in each genre or style of music.
Anything else?
 
So, Defining our audio goals depends on:
Knowing ourselves and our musical choices/ preferences well.
Being aware that this could change over time.
It’s easier if the preferences in music work well within the attributes of a particular type of set up (as detailed by @grindstone, @sidvee and @square_wave
If the musical preferences are across several generes and choices an option is to have multiple set ups that perform well and bring out the best in each genre or style of music.
Anything else?
Anything else??

Invest in this hobby with spare funds only

Family needs come 1st and always...
 
So, Defining our audio goals depends on:
Knowing ourselves and our musical choices/ preferences well.
Being aware that this could change over time.
It’s easier if the preferences in music work well within the attributes of a particular type of set up (as detailed by @grindstone, @sidvee and @square_wave
If the musical preferences are across several generes and choices an option is to have multiple set ups that perform well and bring out the best in each genre or style of music.
Anything else?
Not trying to say tailor it by genre, but to accept known tradeoffs based on room & topology. It's a choice of "where to live". You make whatever you have fit as well as it can for your needs like anything else, but what I'm trying to include is the converse (obverse?).


All the quick examples are too simple to be useful, and I don't have time to think deeply and reductively edit a general response right now, so let's use me. I love basshorn-bass. Above almost all else. It makes me giggle like a little kid, sometimes. That takes (drumroll) basshorns, which are not small and they do not extend very low if they are to fit inside most homes tolerably. Further, they need "room" to do their thing best--and they need room corners to be their smallest and reach their lowest at the highest output. Implicitly in that preference for a kind of bass, a pile of baggage (size + room + room mode excitation + ...) is "built-in". They need the biggest room(s) in the house, basically, as a tenet. I accept that--that's the price. Right now, I don't live like I used to (moved) and don't listen to them much--short periods once or twice a week, tops, because my best room with the best corners (wall-construction-wise) is in the basement. On principle, that means, if I want to listen to music with that, I change that room so it's a good place to spend a lot of time and change my life. That was the plan on moving-day when boxes were coming and backs were sore. Still could, but haven't. Discord. Right now, I'm okay because I can get a "fix" when I want some :)


In my old life (over-absorbed by work to seriously unhealthy degree), I didn't care about anything but having 45 minutes or 1.5hrs at the end of the day from say 2AM on to get a libation and let some music wash the day away...to sink into a chair and let the music heal my head. In those years, I listened to a lot of jazz and drank a lot of scotch. The brushes and the standup (double-) bass had to be right--not to mention the brass. And there had to be dynamics, of course, w/o vibrating the windows bec the houses are 10 feet from each other and it's the wee hours. Khorn clones filled the bill perfectly for me in my life.


Say instead that I liked OB bass above all else--still needs room, still needs size, arguably needs a larger footprint and is every bit as finicky (or worse) than basshorns. Built-in placement and size tradeoffs.


So what genres are a problem for either of them (or alternatively what must be supplemented to "solve" the problem to become "all-around")? Well, a full bottom octave, for one--16-32Hz, say. Love dub/trance/EDI and really need/thrive on the bottom low freqs, etc? Need more/different stuff. Tough for both types unless one is OK with say 78dB sensitivity. Yes, these are all (too-) simple examples and don't completely address what you're talking about, so I apologize for writing on the fly. The point is, we eventually make a choice to either fix what might be missing (maybe updating our list if it was incorrect), or live with it.

The choice of what we prize higher than other things is what we accept (or don't accept and work on/change). Same test as any physical piece of anything--does using it please us or not? This'll be all new-agey-hooey-sounding, but it boils to our actions either being in accordance with our rankings or changing our rankings if the gear does what we wanted and we're displeased. Think about our own Vineeth--in the end, what he worked for was to get 2 sealed woofers + LF sub so that he felt bass on his chest the way he liked :) It need not be formal, it's "hey--I'm missing this thing I had and I want that back".


I submit that we *all* have these things. This whole big circle is about fun. Between economics, physical room, or domestic negotiations, invariably there are limits. But if we keep it fun, it is. If it does what we say (to ourselves w/ our list) that it was what we wanted, we're can find "gear peace" and get back to the music.


Whatever presenation our system makes, it does not make others. It radiaties a certain way, and not other ways, and it outputs the levels it does. It's what it is. But if we've tried to "line it up" with what's important to us--our own preferences for presentations AND we know what we've traded (domestic harmony secured, etc), there can be peace with what you have and what it does (and it can stay fun).


Yeah, it'll move over time. Our hearing education (and body) changes...and sometimes our dwellings change. All that stuff is mostly out of our control, right?


My soapbox on this is to try to help separate the concepts of chasing gear for dopamine or chasing gear to achieve a goal. So much of the audio industry is functionally a cry that we are all missing-out unless we get this or that thing and that feeds whatever doubts we might have and it can team-up with the itch to chase gear. There's nothing at all wrong with chasing dopamine. Audio isn't monogamy so it we want multiple things, no reason not to. I'm trying to argue that it need not be the case that we need them (multiple systems) but rather, for each of us, it's readily achievable to be at peace with how we've attempted to address one system (and have it be able to play almost anything acceptably). My own 2c is that it's useful/helpful to always keep some old stuff over time to compare with whatever you have if it's possible, storage/space-wise, but that's its purpose--to keep us honest.


It's still about goosebumps and grins and it's individual. If you figure out what makes you happy, the recipe and grocery list become simpler. I wrote too many words for what it is--try to veer towards what makes you happy like the little kid in all of us and fear-not the exhortations of the audio press or technical glitterati. You're already finding all the right references for deeper inquiries. You'll make peace with the reading. You might already know entirely what you want--my (unfounded) guess is that the confidence will underpin that when you hear enough different things to form the tradeoffs better.

Look--I "get" it--there's gotta be more to this than that. IMO, no, there really isn't. It just takes a lot of listening and a long time to understand the possiblities of coherence and presentation size and blah blah--and their tradeoffs--to figure-out w/o doubt what it is we (by rank) like. It's just that the world has made it harder for each of us to hear things (fewer shows, almost non-existent retail salons, etc), so it's more work to "stretch" for all of us.
 
It is true that you cannot have everything in your system. It is impossible to tick all boxes in choosing(or building) a system. Hence this hobby is all about compromises and a lot to do with patience.
You can overcome a lot these compromises to a good extend by judicious use of Pro-Audio tools. For Ex- Parametric Equalizers. These tools don't solve all the problems but helps to make the system the one with which you can live. Yes you can tailor the system somewhat as per your taste which enables one to spend more time with the system.
Sometimes even though we like a piece of music, we may not like the way a transparent system will convey it to us. Solution... tweak the music as per the listeners taste.
Rather than someone telling you what your system should sound like and you not liking that sound, you should decide how your system should sound like so that you end up spending more time with your system listening to music.
All sorts of claim on the intent of the performer trying to convey the way it is supposed to sound is mostly very subjective as how one can be sure that the person claiming so has got extensive exposure in hearing the said performer performing live.
So to make life easy, tweak the system as per your taste so that you end up making lesser compromises with the system you have and you get to spend more time enjoying your system.
 
A good listener over a period of time understands how certain instruments / vocals / music sounds in a live setting provided one attends live music at least occasionally. Add one's taste in music to the mix and one tends to gravitate towards a system that resembles the familiar live sound for one's own choice of music. In my opinion that is the best approach because such a system will evoke the same emotions that you get while listening to your choice of music in a live setting. One's own emotional response and feelings are the best yardstick in my honest opinion.

I have heard some people say that one should not listen to one's own feelings when it comes to evaluating a technical thing like a music system. However, feelings are a core element of what makes us human. Ignoring or dismissing our feelings can have the opposite effect—diminishing our health, relationships, and sense of purpose even at the human experience. Same rules applies to how you evaluate the music you hear from a music system. Listening to music is a human experience.
 
Last edited:
Purchase the Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier at a special offer price.
Back
Top