Listening Impression - Shanti's System

Hi Bhagwan/Hiten

Music is a form of art, not hardware. Hardware to me is not a piece of art. Its science and engineering.

Sir,

I am not trying to compare Art with Audio Hardware;

My example was intended towards appreciation of gear that may or may not be 'owned'
It was in connection to 'selling' ones kidney to buy a DAC / Cable.
I simply suggested that ownership of a DAC / Cable etc. is not important.
Appreciation of the music - via a well tuned audio system is important & if the chance existed one should take it up & listen to it.
One does not need to own a set up to appreciate it....

Besides, once an 'over the top' set up is heard - like the kind I just experienced - Audio Exotic kind - revert back to ones own & appreciate that too. Thank God, he gave me the chance / opportunity to listen & help in 'fine tuning' it. That is all that matters....

:)
 
Hi Bhagwan/Hiten

Music is a form of art, not hardware. Hardware to me is not a piece of art. Its science and engineering.

ofcourse ofcourse sir, Music is most important and should be prime focus of this hobby.
I may be wrong but I was thinking on the lines of designing an amplifier or speaker design etc. Not setting up a system.
Science can be art too as designing an amp also requires creativity, speaker designs can have both technical and aesthetics aspects. I will try to surf the net and see if I can make my point with few examples.
Regards :)
 
Hi Bhagwan/Hiten

I can appreciate what you guys are saying but to me listening to a symphonic piece of Beethoven or a classical piece by Ravi Shankar or a simple bhajan by Lata is a work of art. To me i can appreciate it equally on a simple system as much as on a mega expensive system.
 
Sir,

I am not trying to compare Art with Audio Hardware;

My example was intended towards appreciation of gear that may or may not be 'owned'
It was in connection to 'selling' ones kidney to buy a DAC / Cable.
I simply suggested that ownership of a DAC / Cable etc. is not important.
Appreciation of the music - via a well tuned audio system is important & if the chance existed one should take it up & listen to it.
One does not need to own a set up to appreciate it....

Besides, once an 'over the top' set up is heard - like the kind I just experienced - Audio Exotic kind - revert back to ones own & appreciate that too. Thank God, he gave me the chance / opportunity to listen & help in 'fine tuning' it. That is all that matters....

:)

Earlier I thought you are going to compare one mind/thought by seeing visualizing the art or hearing the music.

As an human we cannot/should not stop an thinking to own the stuff what we hear. May be we can enjoy the opera show by just by clapping the hands on coming away from the show and go ahead with our usual day to day work. But in kind of audio stuffs, once we came out of hearing if we like we should put our mind to own that stuff.

For that we have to put efforts physically to earn daily. You should have done this effort to own those exotic $9k cables stuffs.

You can very well read in china people are selling their kidneys to get the iphone's.. why not for Audio stuffs too?:p

ofcourse ofcourse sir, Music is most important and should be prime focus of this hobby.
I may be wrong but I was thinking on the lines of designing an amplifier or speaker design etc. Not setting up a system.
Science can be art too as designing an amp also requires creativity, speaker designs can have both technical and aesthetics aspects. I will try to surf the net and see if I can make my point with few examples.
Regards :)


I agree you fully and adding my point too.The art is an thing which is made by an brush + mix of paint + human creativity in which his mind works and cannot be understood by all immediately ( am i right). Just go into deep and revolve/evolve your mind still you cannot read the full creativity. But in music it is different we go straight into moods:)

Audiophile stuffs are mostly related to engineering which the form of music is created by hardware stuff. Leave apart it is conducted by an human and recorded:) Talking about the instruments played with or used for recording and playback. Why the KI edition exits???

Owning an 400Sq.ft flat is related only related to family, it is an satisfactory part for your day to day living, but with $9k cables alone to satisfy is to get more and more out of the engineer created amplifier or Cd player.

A piano or guitar or drums will play neutral in everybody ears if played in front . But thru any of the engineer created amplifier/ speakers/cables it will give the ouput in a different way.. We are going behind that stuff.:)

So my point is " Still I am not clear":p
 
And that folks, is what "Shanti" is all about. I have learnt a lot about this hobby thanks to him and a couple of others.

True passion is shared. And believe me, this gentleman exemplifies that like very few in this hobby.
Ill second the above ad add on to that..his passion for music/audio is infectious and has a really well setup up system .
 
What I was trying to say is little bit different. As technically taj mahal can be called a building but it is not it is work of an art. likewise Amplifier design is a work of art. As I believe all necessary critical things (measurements) have long past been achieved. Only now various implementation of ideas remain. As Sir Nelson pass says amp design is like making/tasting wine.
Nad created power reservoir, Mcintosh I think had a 'autoformer" a kind of load matching transformer. it is things like these which require experienced, skilled and imaginative amp designers just like musicians/singers have riyaz (experience), skill and their individual performances.

Having said that I believe the amount spent on this hobby should be justified by improvements it makes. Personally I will definitely spend more on well pressed vinyl than interconnects or other things.
 
Having said that I believe the amount spent on this hobby should be justified by improvements it makes. Personally I will definitely spend more on well pressed vinyl than interconnects or other things.

Way to go;
Correct Attitude.

I have always maintained - what floats ones boat !!!

I for 1 am not an analogue person;
In fact I have left CD's too [5K of them]
Now into HDD Playback with 14TB of Flac & Wave......
 
What I was trying to say is little bit different. As technically taj mahal can be called a building but it is not it is work of an art. likewise Amplifier design is a work of art. As I believe all necessary critical things (measurements) have long past been achieved. Only now various implementation of ideas remain. As Sir Nelson pass says amp design is like making/tasting wine.
Nad created power reservoir, Mcintosh I think had a 'autoformer" a kind of load matching transformer. it is things like these which require experienced, skilled and imaginative amp designers just like musicians/singers have riyaz (experience), skill and their individual performances.

Having said that I believe the amount spent on this hobby should be justified by improvements it makes. Personally I will definitely spend more on well pressed vinyl than interconnects or other things.


Since i am in learning stage, recently spent too much( too much is $200 for one) on interconnects testing with an normal system and fed up and started believing now it will tweak and suit more for high end systems.:p Having spent lacs then we are forced to tell "hah itz sounding great" and have "Peace" in our mind. My case is going to be like this, i am venturing into something..
 
Well said ...

Well I shall try;

I will start with the assumption that we like art & that we have some art works in our house; This is a pretext we need to start with.....
So, every day we get up & see / look / admire the art that we have on our walls.
This is 'ours' & so we see it - hopefully like it [relate this to out own audio set up @ our house]

Then we do go to art exhibitions / shows / galleries etc. Some times - at least I do.
Here we see art that does not belong to us - yet, some of it we like, some we do not, some is good to see & some is absurd.
This I relate to as an audio show room - dealer place.
Commercial - for sale - i.e.

Then there are 'museums'
These are places we do visit - some times.
Here we see art works by Raza / Sabawalla / Anjolie Ela Menon / Hussain / Souza etc.
These we cannot [at least I cannot buy] buy, but I still do try and go [visit] so that I can see. Try to appreciate - widen my horizon etc.
This I relate to 'esoteric' audio systems.
We can listen & try to understand & appreciate.
We may never own this - but the pleasure of listening can always be had.

Thereafter, I come home & see the art on my walls & appreciate it for what it is - I cannot buy any of the esoteric art works, but that does not mean that I should not experience it......

This is all I want to put across.

Live in a 1BHK Flat, but do visit a palace / mansion etc.
Appreciate what you see.
Take it in your senses.
Learn from it.
Aspire for it - some day - if God wills it - may come your way.
If it does not, you still have your 1BHK Flat to revert to - I know I do [I live in a 400 sq. ft. house - just to let you know] !!!

So as far as possible, 'experience' what ever comes your way;
That is the only way to 'grow' in life.
See / Listen / Touch etc. what ever you can - ownership is not important - experience the good things - that way you will grow an an individual...

Sorry for the long post, but this is a philosophy I live by....

p.s. I too started my audio 1.5 decades back with a 2 in 1 panasonic & when I purchased my 1st Bose, I was under the impression that I had 'arrived' !!
Had to unlearn so much - before I started my quest to 're-learn' !!
Still on that ladder & hope to keep climbing.....God willing;;
 
Folks, let me begin the description of my experience of bhagwan's system, which I had the pleasure of auditioning, by saying that i lost the distinction between analogue and digital completely, once i got past the pleasure of tasting his hospitality. There is widespread acceptance of what is called a "digital" sound, and i have generally understood it to be meaning sound that is a bit too clean, artificially clinical etc. Generally in such systems, a Pink Floyd would sound better than a Bhimsen Joshi.
Vocals are generally difficult to reproduce, as there is a slightly tinny underlying edge to the voice. This generally disappears in a good analogue system, but persists in many high end digital systems. But a start with Gundecha brothers' Dhrupad on the Tidal/DCS/Martin Logan/Cadence combination made me practically blink to believe it was not a live performance.

jls001 has given a detailed description in the beginning of this thread, and there is little that has changed from there. I would only like to add that the Martin Logan sub-woofers (one for each channel) did a great job, by keeping the bass strong but unobtrusive. They are tunable only by positioning changes, and Bhagwan has hit the proverbial sweet spot literally. We had a bit of a debate on whether the valve monoblocks had suppressed the base, but the proof is that when this happens, the music generally sounds harsh. But harsh was a word even the harshest critic would not think of in describing bhagwans set up, regardless of the genre of music heard. We heard several.

Serious money has been spent on this system, but in a very focussed and productive manner. My favourite piece while auditioning gear is Jethro Tulls Mother Goose. There are several instruments and vocalists arrayed in 3D, but discoverable only in a very good system. Some time back, when I auditioned (and ultimately purchased) Accuphase e-450 and Thiel CS2.4, I heard some of the smaller drums for the first time, after several years of listening to this track on my old system. In bhagwans system, the smaller drums were sharply prominent. There is no doubting the resolution capability of the entire set-up, and there are no weak links in the chain.

Bhagwan is also very helpful with his suggestions and tips for improvements, and so is his friend Khusrau, who happened to drop in. When he says all conventions have been broken by him in setting his system up, Bhagwan is not exaggerating. But done very purposefully and successfully.
 
Folks, let me begin the description of my experience of bhagwan's system, which I had the pleasure of auditioning, by saying that i lost the distinction between analogue and digital completely, once i got past the pleasure of tasting his hospitality. There is widespread acceptance of what is called a "digital" sound, and i have generally understood it to be meaning sound that is a bit too clean, artificially clinical etc. Generally in such systems, a Pink Floyd would sound better than a Bhimsen Joshi.
Vocals are generally difficult to reproduce, as there is a slightly tinny underlying edge to the voice. This generally disappears in a good analogue system, but persists in many high end digital systems. But a start with Gundecha brothers' Dhrupad on the Tidal/DCS/Martin Logan/Cadence combination made me practically blink to believe it was not a live performance.

jls001 has given a detailed description in the beginning of this thread, and there is little that has changed from there. I would only like to add that the Martin Logan sub-woofers (one for each channel) did a great job, by keeping the bass strong but unobtrusive. They are tunable only by positioning changes, and Bhagwan has hit the proverbial sweet spot literally. We had a bit of a debate on whether the valve monoblocks had suppressed the base, but the proof is that when this happens, the music generally sounds harsh. But harsh was a word even the harshest critic would not think of in describing bhagwans set up, regardless of the genre of music heard. We heard several.

Serious money has been spent on this system, but in a very focussed and productive manner. My favourite piece while auditioning gear is Jethro Tulls Mother Goose. There are several instruments and vocalists arrayed in 3D, but discoverable only in a very good system. Some time back, when I auditioned (and ultimately purchased) Accuphase e-450 and Thiel CS2.4, I heard some of the smaller drums for the first time, after several years of listening to this track on my old system. In bhagwans system, the smaller drums were sharply prominent. There is no doubting the resolution capability of the entire set-up, and there are no weak links in the chain.

Bhagwan is also very helpful with his suggestions and tips for improvements, and so is his friend Khusrau, who happened to drop in. When he says all conventions have been broken by him in setting his system up, Bhagwan is not exaggerating. But done very purposefully and successfully.

Gerry - you are most welcome;
My doors are always open - M & M [Music & Malt] !
It was nice to meet you.

I shall surely visit your place - soon.
This year may look a bit 'tight' but Jan 2012 seems to be a good time - some Saturday. Will call - fix up & drop in.

Appreciate your kind words.

All the Best ! :yahoo:
 
Bhagwan is a Star with a superb audio setup.. If it weren't for him, I would still be listening to Bose...
Everyone should take the time to go over and listen to his very well setup and matched system.
 

Very clever double storied design. Looks nice and finishing looks excellent too especially with the monogrammed "Sound Foundations" logo. Am I seeing the beginning of an iconic accessory brand? :)

Did you manage to try magma's cereballs under your DAC? I tried it on my new turntable and I am very impressed.
 
Very clever double storied design. Looks nice and finishing looks excellent too especially with the monogrammed "Sound Foundations" logo. Am I seeing the beginning of an iconic accessory brand? :)

Did you manage to try magma's cereballs under your DAC? I tried it on my new turntable and I am very impressed.

Yes;
The products do look 'promising'

I did do an 'a' / 'b' / 'c' etc @ my place.
The Stillpoints Ultra SS / Alto Extremo / Ceraballs etc.
Yes, the product is great - excellent value for the price - imho.

These Cable Lifters too are nice - helps remove the Cable Clutter & Ground Contact etc.
I want to get a new set made - where all 4 runs are in different holes - so no 'touch' what so ever !! Will start work on it - soon....
 
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