Looking for suggestion on power cleaning

[ajeetk]

Just a suggestion ---
Basically if u want a constant voltage | Sine wave output | backup --- do for an APC online UPS ......and then for Surge protection go for a non-sacrificial Surge protector like Surge-X or from Audioquest . If u already have an Inverter/another UPS then the APC wouldn't make much sense

Hmm Okay, I have Vertex servo stab as I mentioned, Online UPS will cost another big Just thinking if I can live with stab and surge protection only with peace of mind.

 

[sydney]

Hmm Okay, I have Vertex servo stab as I mentioned, Online UPS will cost another big Just thinking if I can live with stab and surge protection only with peace of mind.

Most of the audio dealers dont recommend an UPS however the place i live has a lot of power cuts within a small time duration hence i prefer an UPS else u could omit it.

 

[Chulbulee]

Are you saying these won't work. Even the Type 1+2 ones installed at the main breaker. Or are you talking about the Type 3 ones installed at the plug points. Also, these 'Indian conditions' that you refer to, is this referring to our shoddy wiring and earthing in general.

I have used some gadgets by top notch companies, e.g. Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker, Surge Protector etc and found to be wanting in many cases as they seldom function when needed.

In summers, voltages run pretty low, resulting in more current than normal and the resultant heat often damages the capacitors or nearby parts used for surge protection (they are just stashed in minimal space). Shoddy wiring is also to be blamed because these surge protectors expect ideal conditions, including proper grounding using "soldered" earth joints, whereas mostly in India, these points are loosely jointed. For real surge protection, one should check their ground connections, especially the old ones as most wires have rust, not giving proper earth.

 

[OM_2K19]

I have currently as main -> Vertex Servo 5Kv stab -> AVR.

I would replace the Stabilizer with an APC UPS (switchover time =<6ms) to protect against surge/spikes and power failure. If you have the budget/space, opt for an Online UPS for a 100% clean power supply.

Edit:-

UPS vs. surge suppressor | Eaton

Learn the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) — and which device is better suited for your IT environment.

www.eaton.com

 

[ajeetk]

I have used some gadgets by top notch companies, e.g. Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker, Surge Protector etc and found to be wanting in many cases as they seldom function when needed.

In summers, voltages run pretty low, resulting in more current than normal and the resultant heat often damages the capacitors or nearby parts used for surge protection (they are just stashed in minimal space). Shoddy wiring is also to be blamed because these surge protectors expect ideal conditions, including proper grounding using "soldered" earth joints, whereas mostly in India, these points are loosely jointed. For real surge protection, one should check their ground connections, especially the old ones as most wires have rust, not giving proper earth.

Thanks for your response @Chulbulee not sure in a society how much it is possible. How do we check if we are getting proper ground or not, any device to test it?

 

[ajeetk]

I would replace the Stabilizer with an APC UPS (switchover time =<6ms) to protect against surge/spikes and power failure. If you have the budget/space, opt for an Online UPS for a 100% clean power supply.

Edit:-

UPS vs. surge suppressor | Eaton

Learn the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) — and which device is better suited for your IT environment.

www.eaton.com

Hi @OM_2K19 , I appreciate your response, but thinking just got my stabilizer delivered :'( going again for Online UPS will be another hole in my small wallet .. Feeling I could have posted this query earlier... :'(

 

[keith_correa]

Thanks for your response @Chulbulee not sure in a society how much it is possible. How do we check if we are getting proper ground or not, any device to test it?

Measure voltage between neutral and ground.

Edit: Just realized that it does not answer the question. Sorry about that.

 

[sydney]

Measure voltage between neutral and ground.

Edit: Just realized that it does not answer the question. Sorry about that.

Measure voltage between neutral and ground.

Edit: Just realized that it does not answer the question. Sorry about that.

What should be the the max voltage between neutral and GND <3V or 0

 

[keith_correa]

What should be the the max voltage between neutral and GND <3V or 0

Less than 5V is acceptable

 

[ajeetk]

Less than 5V is acceptable

Sorry for being naive, but can I test it with multimeter, any link or steps how to test it?

 

[ktks1]

After losing an AVR due to overvoltage, I switched to an Online UPS and never worried about electrical faults again!
Recently upgraded to Eaton and I'd say it is worth the one-time investment..

I have an APC 2KVA online UPS that I'm planning to put on sale in some time. If you're interested, PM me for details.

 

[Kannan]

Sorry for being naive, but can I test it with multimeter, any link or steps how to test it?

yes....220+ voltage between neutral and mains, same voltage witn max 5 volt variance between mains and earth and null voltage between neutral and earth.

Be cautious from adding yourself to the circuit

 

[Kannan]

Recently upgraded to Eaton and I'd say it is worth the one-time investment..

Found the following on the Eaton website

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/support/eaton-answers/ups-vs--surge-suppressor.html

UPS vs. Surge Suppressor​

Customers often ask us to explain the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power system (UPS) — and which device is better suited for their environment.
The fact is that neither UPS nor surge protection devices (SPD) alone will provide complete protection for commercial systems. The most effective installation is ensured by utilizing a combination of both forms of power conditioning.
Surge protectors (or suppressors) provide just that: a line of defense against surges, which are short-term high voltages above 110 percent of nominal. They are often associated with lightning strikes and utility switching, but in fact 80% of surges originate inside a facility. These occur due to electrical switching or other disturbances created by various devices within the building. Regardless of the source, the increased voltage from surges can damage the components of electrical systems such as computers, networks, and process control equipment.
Even if nothing is immediately destroyed, over time the increased strain can cause premature failure of expensive components. It’s important to note that surge protection will not keep your equipment operational during a blackout, but damaging surges occur much more frequently than power outages. A properly designed backup power system should always incorporate a cascaded approach to applying surge protection (i.e. a two layered approach) working in conjunction with a UPS. The first surge unit, (upstream SPD) mitigates the brunt of the surge energy while the second unit (the UPS) reduces any remaining surge energy to an inconsequential level.
A UPS delivers second-level protection against surges; it should never be considered a primary surge protection device. It also continually regulates incoming voltage and provides an internal battery that allows connected equipment to continue running even if the power supply is cut. In order for your electronic devices to continue to function even if power is unavailable, you need a UPS, and often a backup generator.
How do you apply these devices coherently? Surge protection should be installed on the utility side of your UPS, ideally on the bypass line. This provides the following modes of protection:

1. Greatly extends the life of the surge protection components in your UPS
2. Provides surge protection for your load when the UPS is off line for maintenance

Surge protection installed on the utility side of a UPS will also help protect the UPS. A dramatic surge event, such as a lightning strike can be associated with over 20KV and 5kA. The typical let-through voltage of a surge device (UPS included) when subjected to this level of surge event would be roughly 2000V, which is still high enough to cause equipment damage. To eliminate this we install an upstream unit and allow the UPS to mitigate the effects of the remaining surge energy, i.e. driving the final let-through voltage down to around 200V which is well below the point that would cause damage.
Additionally, it may be wise to install an SPD between the UPS output and the load distribution system. This is especially true if the load panel is located a long distance from the UPS. The more distance, the better likelihood that an internally generated surge could impact the load.
So which form of power protection is best suited for your environment? The answer is, both. Critical servers, workstations, PCs, POS and VoIP equipment, and other key business devices are protected by attaching a UPS, ensuring they are able to function in the event of a power outage and, if needed, shut down cleanly if power remains out for an extended period of time. Surge devices are required as well, to protect both critical equipment, and even the UPS itself.

 

[ajeetk]

Found the following on the Eaton website

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/support/eaton-answers/ups-vs--surge-suppressor.html

UPS vs. Surge Suppressor​

Customers often ask us to explain the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power system (UPS) — and which device is better suited for their environment.
The fact is that neither UPS nor surge protection devices (SPD) alone will provide complete protection for commercial systems. The most effective installation is ensured by utilizing a combination of both forms of power conditioning.
Surge protectors (or suppressors) provide just that: a line of defense against surges, which are short-term high voltages above 110 percent of nominal. They are often associated with lightning strikes and utility switching, but in fact 80% of surges originate inside a facility. These occur due to electrical switching or other disturbances created by various devices within the building. Regardless of the source, the increased voltage from surges can damage the components of electrical systems such as computers, networks, and process control equipment.
Even if nothing is immediately destroyed, over time the increased strain can cause premature failure of expensive components. It’s important to note that surge protection will not keep your equipment operational during a blackout, but damaging surges occur much more frequently than power outages. A properly designed backup power system should always incorporate a cascaded approach to applying surge protection (i.e. a two layered approach) working in conjunction with a UPS. The first surge unit, (upstream SPD) mitigates the brunt of the surge energy while the second unit (the UPS) reduces any remaining surge energy to an inconsequential level.
A UPS delivers second-level protection against surges; it should never be considered a primary surge protection device. It also continually regulates incoming voltage and provides an internal battery that allows connected equipment to continue running even if the power supply is cut. In order for your electronic devices to continue to function even if power is unavailable, you need a UPS, and often a backup generator.
How do you apply these devices coherently? Surge protection should be installed on the utility side of your UPS, ideally on the bypass line. This provides the following modes of protection:

1. Greatly extends the life of the surge protection components in your UPS
2. Provides surge protection for your load when the UPS is off line for maintenance

Surge protection installed on the utility side of a UPS will also help protect the UPS. A dramatic surge event, such as a lightning strike can be associated with over 20KV and 5kA. The typical let-through voltage of a surge device (UPS included) when subjected to this level of surge event would be roughly 2000V, which is still high enough to cause equipment damage. To eliminate this we install an upstream unit and allow the UPS to mitigate the effects of the remaining surge energy, i.e. driving the final let-through voltage down to around 200V which is well below the point that would cause damage.
Additionally, it may be wise to install an SPD between the UPS output and the load distribution system. This is especially true if the load panel is located a long distance from the UPS. The more distance, the better likelihood that an internally generated surge could impact the load.
So which form of power protection is best suited for your environment? The answer is, both. Critical servers, workstations, PCs, POS and VoIP equipment, and other key business devices are protected by attaching a UPS, ensuring they are able to function in the event of a power outage and, if needed, shut down cleanly if power remains out for an extended period of time. Surge devices are required as well, to protect both critical equipment, and even the UPS itself.

Yeah I quickly gone over it when you pointed it earlier. nice read !!

 

[ajeetk]

Found the following on the Eaton website

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/support/eaton-answers/ups-vs--surge-suppressor.html

UPS vs. Surge Suppressor​

Customers often ask us to explain the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power system (UPS) — and which device is better suited for their environment.
The fact is that neither UPS nor surge protection devices (SPD) alone will provide complete protection for commercial systems. The most effective installation is ensured by utilizing a combination of both forms of power conditioning.
Surge protectors (or suppressors) provide just that: a line of defense against surges, which are short-term high voltages above 110 percent of nominal. They are often associated with lightning strikes and utility switching, but in fact 80% of surges originate inside a facility. These occur due to electrical switching or other disturbances created by various devices within the building. Regardless of the source, the increased voltage from surges can damage the components of electrical systems such as computers, networks, and process control equipment.
Even if nothing is immediately destroyed, over time the increased strain can cause premature failure of expensive components. It’s important to note that surge protection will not keep your equipment operational during a blackout, but damaging surges occur much more frequently than power outages. A properly designed backup power system should always incorporate a cascaded approach to applying surge protection (i.e. a two layered approach) working in conjunction with a UPS. The first surge unit, (upstream SPD) mitigates the brunt of the surge energy while the second unit (the UPS) reduces any remaining surge energy to an inconsequential level.
A UPS delivers second-level protection against surges; it should never be considered a primary surge protection device. It also continually regulates incoming voltage and provides an internal battery that allows connected equipment to continue running even if the power supply is cut. In order for your electronic devices to continue to function even if power is unavailable, you need a UPS, and often a backup generator.
How do you apply these devices coherently? Surge protection should be installed on the utility side of your UPS, ideally on the bypass line. This provides the following modes of protection:

1. Greatly extends the life of the surge protection components in your UPS
2. Provides surge protection for your load when the UPS is off line for maintenance

Surge protection installed on the utility side of a UPS will also help protect the UPS. A dramatic surge event, such as a lightning strike can be associated with over 20KV and 5kA. The typical let-through voltage of a surge device (UPS included) when subjected to this level of surge event would be roughly 2000V, which is still high enough to cause equipment damage. To eliminate this we install an upstream unit and allow the UPS to mitigate the effects of the remaining surge energy, i.e. driving the final let-through voltage down to around 200V which is well below the point that would cause damage.
Additionally, it may be wise to install an SPD between the UPS output and the load distribution system. This is especially true if the load panel is located a long distance from the UPS. The more distance, the better likelihood that an internally generated surge could impact the load.
So which form of power protection is best suited for your environment? The answer is, both. Critical servers, workstations, PCs, POS and VoIP equipment, and other key business devices are protected by attaching a UPS, ensuring they are able to function in the event of a power outage and, if needed, shut down cleanly if power remains out for an extended period of time. Surge devices are required as well, to protect both critical equipment, and even the UPS itself.

Probably I can chain stablizer -> UPS ??

 

[ktks1]

Found the following on the Eaton website

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/support/eaton-answers/ups-vs--surge-suppressor.html

UPS vs. Surge Suppressor​

Customers often ask us to explain the difference between a surge protector and an uninterruptible power system (UPS) — and which device is better suited for their environment.
The fact is that neither UPS nor surge protection devices (SPD) alone will provide complete protection for commercial systems. The most effective installation is ensured by utilizing a combination of both forms of power conditioning.
Surge protectors (or suppressors) provide just that: a line of defense against surges, which are short-term high voltages above 110 percent of nominal. They are often associated with lightning strikes and utility switching, but in fact 80% of surges originate inside a facility. These occur due to electrical switching or other disturbances created by various devices within the building. Regardless of the source, the increased voltage from surges can damage the components of electrical systems such as computers, networks, and process control equipment.
Even if nothing is immediately destroyed, over time the increased strain can cause premature failure of expensive components. It’s important to note that surge protection will not keep your equipment operational during a blackout, but damaging surges occur much more frequently than power outages. A properly designed backup power system should always incorporate a cascaded approach to applying surge protection (i.e. a two layered approach) working in conjunction with a UPS. The first surge unit, (upstream SPD) mitigates the brunt of the surge energy while the second unit (the UPS) reduces any remaining surge energy to an inconsequential level.
A UPS delivers second-level protection against surges; it should never be considered a primary surge protection device. It also continually regulates incoming voltage and provides an internal battery that allows connected equipment to continue running even if the power supply is cut. In order for your electronic devices to continue to function even if power is unavailable, you need a UPS, and often a backup generator.
How do you apply these devices coherently? Surge protection should be installed on the utility side of your UPS, ideally on the bypass line. This provides the following modes of protection:

1. Greatly extends the life of the surge protection components in your UPS
2. Provides surge protection for your load when the UPS is off line for maintenance

Surge protection installed on the utility side of a UPS will also help protect the UPS. A dramatic surge event, such as a lightning strike can be associated with over 20KV and 5kA. The typical let-through voltage of a surge device (UPS included) when subjected to this level of surge event would be roughly 2000V, which is still high enough to cause equipment damage. To eliminate this we install an upstream unit and allow the UPS to mitigate the effects of the remaining surge energy, i.e. driving the final let-through voltage down to around 200V which is well below the point that would cause damage.
Additionally, it may be wise to install an SPD between the UPS output and the load distribution system. This is especially true if the load panel is located a long distance from the UPS. The more distance, the better likelihood that an internally generated surge could impact the load.
So which form of power protection is best suited for your environment? The answer is, both. Critical servers, workstations, PCs, POS and VoIP equipment, and other key business devices are protected by attaching a UPS, ensuring they are able to function in the event of a power outage and, if needed, shut down cleanly if power remains out for an extended period of time. Surge devices are required as well, to protect both critical equipment, and even the UPS itself.

Thanks for the article Kannan. I presume they're talking about the regular sine-wave UPS and not the Online Double Conversion UPS.

Since online ones convert AC to DC, most of the faults are already eliminated there and they also monitor power conditions, regulate voltage and frequency at the output. They'll have an internal bypass that allows service continuity in case of battery replacement or fault with the UPS uC. That is my understanding so far

 

[HIEND-Raja]

I am using for cleaning power Isolation transformer brand name TOPAZ 5kva 0.005 pF capacitance, 50kg (Made In USA) this best sounding compare to other power cleaners. Please to be note, If you use servo 3 phase stabilizer 3 phase, carefully check neutral failure protection available otherwise don't buy, your stabilizer will kill your valuable equipment's when neutral failed. Single phase not issues.
Note: My Topaz isolation transformer I bought from over seas, this transformer used in hospital.

 

[Kannan]

I am using for cleaning power Isolation transformer brand name TOPAZ 5kva 0.005 pF capacitance, 50kg (Made In USA) this best sounding compare to other power cleaners.

In general, Isolation transformers do not provide any protection against surge or spikes. They primarily offer isolation by removing the DC from the mains and as a barrier to return noise from the equipment. The Topaz could have additional circuit for spike protection, but is not related to its isolation transformer. I too use an isolation transformer with no other add ons in it and all my equipment are connected to it and it makes a positive difference to the sound quality.

When investing in isolation transformer it is important it is speced to be atleast twice the load factor, else the dynamics could get compromised

 

[Chulbulee]

Thanks for your response @Chulbulee not sure in a society how much it is possible. How do we check if we are getting proper ground or not, any device to test it?

I also live in a 40 yr old Society of over 100 flats, myself had this problem. Take a bulb, connect as usual, then with live and ground, it should glow similar. Because measuring 3-5 volts on multimeter is problem. If your society approves, a grid of 3-4 ground installations would do a world of good, each costing 10k. My building has 8 flats and we got one for ourself (not allowing others to connect ), after installation the vendor using his big meter showed 4 volts on the tip.

 

[Chulbulee]

Found the following on the Eaton website

Large corporations give any reply to suit their purpose. Believe me, there is no such thing as "complete protection", that's because these mfrs have moved away from the best batteries in this business, the Lead Acid ones, which could easily absorb heaviest spikes. If one can fit these in online UPS, it will serve that purpose.