LVX 12 VS FVX12

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
I posted this query in rhythmik thread and did not get any proper response. How many of you have heard both? They are same apart from cone material. FVX 12 costs 11400 more then the LVX12.
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
Aluminum can have some breakup/resonance issues in the higher frequencies, typically not a problem if you cross 80Hz or below with a 24db/oct or higher LPF. It has harder to dent while paper is easier to tear. People have varying opinions on this, I personally would buy the paper one between the two. That said many people like the looks of the aluminum/metal cone.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Aluminum can have some breakup/resonance issues in the higher frequencies, typically not a problem if you cross 80Hz or below with a 24db/oct or higher LPF. It has harder to dent while paper is easier to tear. People have varying opinions on this, I personally would buy the paper one between the two. That said many people like the looks of the aluminum/metal cone.
Well anyways it’s going to be covered so not concerned about the better looking cone. The paper cone does cost less but I have seen one review for fvx12 and it impressed me big time.Can’t find a single review for lvx12 any where
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
If the only difference is the cone I see no reason to fret over it, get the paper, it's cheaper as you say and it won't have the metal cone's issues. Has the company said if there is a difference in the mms?fs? Other T/S?
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
If the only difference is the cone I see no reason to fret over it, get the paper, it's cheaper as you say and it won't have the metal cone's issues. Has the company said if there is a difference in the mms?fs? Other T/S?
I sent an email to rythmik and this was their response.
 

Attachments

  • 548C7DC8-4545-48C3-ADD8-D59EF0A14798.jpeg
    548C7DC8-4545-48C3-ADD8-D59EF0A14798.jpeg
    194.3 KB · Views: 62

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
This means their T/S is different. The metal cone probably has a bit more mms,lower fs, perhaps stronger bl. What this means is it will likely have a bit more output bellow 40Hz. Being a metal cone the high frequency issue will still persist but if that's not a problem and you don't mind the expense, go for it.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
This means their T/S is different. The metal cone probably has a bit more mms,lower fs, perhaps stronger bl. What this means is it will likely have a bit more output bellow 40Hz. Being a metal cone the high frequency issue will still persist but if that's not a problem and you don't mind the expense, go for it.
Well output below 40hz is not what I am looking for and all the subs I shortlisted will perform to my expectations in that region. I am concentrating on mid bass and articulation. Bass should be tight and accurate. Guess I’ll give the LVX12 a shot. Waiting for RelHT1205 demo to decide ported vs sealed. Sealed is more of the obvious choice when it comes to mid bass articulation so lets see. In total confusion what to get. Currently have the LV12F and it’s good indeed. I am highly fed up with my subwoofer upgrades. Last 3 years alone I have purchased 5 subwoofers and sold all. Polk 125, Bic pl200-ii, xtz 12.17 and 2 xtz 10.17. So this time slow and steady. Going duals confirmed and yet to finalise ported or sealed. Have Dual F12, RelHT1205, LV12F, LVX12 or the FVX12 shortlisted.
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
Please see below links -



By midbass do you mean 80-300Hz (actual midbass) or 40-150Hz (AVS midbass)?

I don't know if you've done this but what you need is not a sub (80-100Hz and below) all the choices you listed do not seem appropriate. You need to first control the decay in your room, if your decay times are high in the 80-300Hz range you won't get speed or articulation. Glasswool in the corners is the quickest and most effective way to help with this. You also need main speakers which have good output in the 80-300Hz band and after all this you need to make sure the time/phase alignment is good between the subwoofers and speakers. Booming room decay is often the culprit for this followed by time/phase alignment. Response peaks can cause this but it is usually not the main cause, in some cases response peaks can cause boominess to some degree in the 30-60Hz band.

Edit: IMO buying subwoofers will not cure the problem, the problem is a room/setup issue, assuming you have enough output.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Please see below links -



By midbass do you mean 80-300Hz (actual midbass) or 40-150Hz (AVS midbass)?

I don't know if you've done this but what you need is not a sub (80-100Hz and below) all the choices you listed do not seem appropriate. You need to first control the decay in your room, if your decay times are high in the 80-300Hz range you won't get speed or articulation. Glasswool in the corners is the quickest and most effective way to help with this. You also need main speakers which have good output in the 80-300Hz band and after all this you need to make sure the time/phase alignment is good between the subwoofers and speakers. Booming room decay is often the culprit for this followed by time/phase alignment. Response peaks can cause this but it is usually not the main cause, in some cases response peaks can cause boominess to some degree in the 30-60Hz band.

Edit: IMO buying subwoofers will not cure the problem, the problem is a room/setup issue, assuming you have enough output.
40-120 as I am a pure HT person nd not much in to stereo. Rythmik LV12F itself I am able to hear good difference in that region over my previous subs. The issues above 120 I am ready to ignore and adjust. I just need some additional performance based on the single performance graph of the LV12F. May be adding one more LV12F itself be enough.
 

Attachments

  • 481A65A0-DD6D-4AC6-BE72-527F15C84EAB.jpeg
    481A65A0-DD6D-4AC6-BE72-527F15C84EAB.jpeg
    112.7 KB · Views: 11

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
Do you have a bass decay graph? You need to understand that bass (tight articulate bass) is a wideband (you need HF as well) phenomenon and for this to be articulate everything needs to be time aligned with as little overhang (bass decay) as possible. IMO buying a subwoofer will not give you what you want though buying a lighter cone higher sensitivity sub might improve the perception some, you need to treat the room and align the speakers/sub. The frequency response graph will not tell you everything but what yours does say is an emphasis on the lower region, this will rob some of the "speed" as well. What I am trying to tell you is that "speed" or "tightness" does not inherently come from just the frequencies below 120Hz, as such you can not ignore frequencies above 120Hz to get this speed.

Here are two tests for you.

Use a HPF on your sub of 60Hz. Does it sound faster?

Switch off your speakers. Does it sound slower?
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Do you have a bass decay graph? You need to understand that bass (tight articulate bass) is a wideband (you need HF as well) phenomenon and for this to be articulate everything needs to be time aligned with as little overhang (bass decay) as possible. IMO buying a subwoofer will not give you what you want though buying a lighter cone higher sensitivity sub might improve the perception some, you need to treat the room and align the speakers/sub. The frequency response graph will not tell you everything but what yours does say is an emphasis on the lower region, this will rob some of the "speed" as well. What I am trying to tell you is that "speed" or "tightness" does not inherently come from just the frequencies below 120Hz, as such you can not ignore frequencies above 120Hz to get this speed.

Here are two tests for you.

Use a HPF on your sub of 60Hz. Does it sound faster?

Switch off your speakers. Does it sound slower?
Ok I get your point and will do those tests later when I have time and update. For now I am just looking to get the best subwoofers within my budget. I have the LV12F now and it is very good and solved most of the issues I had before. Now I am just waiting to test the Rel1205 before I decide ported or sealed. Some times with the right sub and room, eq most issues will be addressed and you may end up being satisfied.My reference for bass is what I had a year back with the xtz10.17. But back then my room was different. It had a bed and filled with furniture’s. Now I removed all and it’s a dedicated HT room. Even LCR is placed different and no matter what I tried I couldn’t get the same bass. But with the LV12F finally it’s almost back. I wouldn’t even bothered about upgrade but after getting used to the 10.17 bass for a year and when it disappeared after the room changes I just cannot sit and enjoy.
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
Why not just use the XTZ, if that's what you like?

Sounds to me that you just became used to a certain sound signature and are seeking to get it back.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Why not just use the XTZ, if that's what you like?

Sounds to me that you just became used to a certain sound signature and are seeking to get it back.
I tried so much with the xtz. I upgraded to 12.17 and then even dual xtz. Low bass was insane and over al it was good but I just couldn’t get the same old bass. Now with the rythmik LV12F it’s almost back and I am quite liking it. Also now I am listening at low volume levels compared to before due to loud noise damage and tinnitus. I would be very happy if I continue even with the dual LV12F. Just that I wanted to confirm dual ported vs sealed before I pull the plug. In process of getting a RelHT1205 for home demo.
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
Where is the 10.17? If you don't have it maybe consider buying that?

In my posts (link) above I have covered ported vs sealed. Most people prefer ported for HT as it offers "free" output around tune. Some people also prefer it's "slower" sound. For some sealed is preferred but they generally use multiple larger drivers with more power.

If you like the LV12F then definitely invest in one more if you feel that is what you prefer and will bring you satisfaction.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Where is the 10.17? If you don't have it maybe consider buying that?

In my posts (link) above I have covered ported vs sealed. Most people prefer ported for HT as it offers "free" output around tune. Some people also prefer it's "slower" sound. For some sealed is preferred but they generally use multiple larger drivers with more power.

If you like the LV12F then definitely invest in one more if you feel that is what you prefer and will bring you satisfaction.
I have sold all my xtz after doing all the tests and currently have the LV12F alone. I am some what satisfied and just cause I have the liberty to have a home demo of the REL HT 1205, waiting before I pull the trigger
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
I see, well then good luck. Though I suspect it's unlikely it will be better if your looking to match up preference.

When you say midbass articulation for HT, you mean more on the gunshot side of things?
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
I see, well then good luck. Though I suspect it's unlikely it will be better if your looking to match up preference.

When you say midbass articulation for HT, you mean more on the gunshot side of things?
Yeah like gun shots, when robots walk, when a person jumps and lands etc you get a soft punch not the hard slam kind of bass. Scenes like these will also have low heavy bass that shakes you but you get the idea right?
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
The lower bass is actually not the heavy/shaking kinds in general unless your using furniture that resonates with it. The low stuff can rattle (particularly doors,windows) things without you hearing much if your using sine waves as test material. It's hard to say for sure since there are so many movies/tv shows but some scenes do indeed have wide band bass (and mid/hf).
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,493
Points
113
Location
Chennai
The lower bass is actually not the heavy/shaking kinds in general unless your using furniture that resonates with it. The low stuff can rattle (particularly doors,windows) things without you hearing much if your using sine waves as test material. It's hard to say for sure since there are so many movies/tv shows but some scenes do indeed have wide band bass (and mid/hf).
Basically bass itself is low but after watching a lot of heavy action sequences and testing subs most just categorise it as low and mid to explain bass. Few I have tested usin REW rta and most heavy bass sequences are in the 30-50 region.
 

Decadent_Spectre

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,041
Points
113
Location
India
My view on bass is bass - 40-100Hz, low bass - below 40Hz. Midbass is 80-300Hz. (slight overlap with bass unless you consider bass as 40-80Hz). I have often written about the 25-50Hz/30-60Hz band as being critical for movies ( and to some extent TV). If you use the REW generator you might find the most "effect" from 27-32Hz and 50-55Hz.
 
Order your Rega Turntables & Amplifiers from HiFiMART.com - India's reputed online dealer.
Top