Music Streamer

Re: Media player buying confusion

Path of least resistance :
1. Get a 1 TB portable HDD to store your audio files
2. Get a media player with good UI for browsing with Genre/Artist etc, this media player should have enough power to handle WAV/FLAC
3. Connect Media player to AVR with "HDMI"
4. Turn on the option in Media player that would leave audio "unmolested". I.e.e no equalizer etc in media player
5. Connect HDD via USB to media player
6. keep a backup of audio somewhere else

Step 4 can be tricky. I have AC Ryan PlayON! HD, and it does have optical and co-axial. It can also play FLACs if you upgrade to recent firmware.

However, I haven't been able to verify that it indeed streams bits unmodified. The volume control is always in effect. There are settings like HDMI passthrough, but no info about how to get unmodified audio bit stream.

So if somebody is recommending a particular media player, please give us an idea about how you verified that you indeed get pure audio bit stream.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

Step 4 can be tricky. I have AC Ryan PlayON! HD, and it does have optical and co-axial. It can also play FLACs if you upgrade to recent firmware.

Have not used this particular player. Is is based on Linux (E.g. Android?). If it is, I can provide configuration to turn on bitsreaming.

Players that I used (Xtreamer and a chinese no-name andoid player), use standard Linux sound config so you can turn on bit-stream via UI or config.

With that, volume control and equalizer etc stop working in player. And AVR needs to handle all that.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

Have not used this particular player. Is is based on Linux (E.g. Android?). If it is, I can provide configuration to turn on bitsreaming.

Players that I used (Xtreamer and a chinese no-name andoid player), use standard Linux sound config so you can turn on bit-stream via UI or config.

With that, volume control and equalizer etc stop working in player. And AVR needs to handle all that.

Yes, it is based on linux, and I am myself a linux fanboy. And I am just plain lazy to do some serious findings on net. Do share your notes; but we should probably open a new thread.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

Not sure if C542 will last very long. A DAC+CDP will cut down on at least one digital interconnect and one power and one device :)
Plus transport+dac within a box would ensure higher synergy between them, assuming it does matter.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

DAC = digital to analog converter .. when you come to my place i will show you one :)

its what decises the quality of "music" output
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

3. Connect Media player to AVR with "HDMI"
4. Turn on the option in Media player that would leave audio "unmolested". I.e.e no equalizer etc in media player
5. Connect HDD via USB to media playe

AMKETTE - EvoTV
PS : Just dont use Analogue out of Media players, that would be useless.

Why HDMI? Why not digital out?

Does evotv have iPod touch and iPad compatibility?

This discussion is not relavant for Audio. Reason is, even Audio CD has bit rate of 1.4 mbps.

USB / WiFi/ Ethernet all are 10 mbps or above.

Is not Wifi is subject to reflections, loss, and refractions like all wireless signals?

Ethernet is better and great for Internet based audio but won't a digital coax cable offer the best sound quality?
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

Does evotv have iPod touch and iPad compatibility?

If you are using iPod / iPad/ iPhone, then you need not purchase any media player.

Just buy a "dock" that will connect it to AVR. With that, audio would be transferred digitally to AVR and analogue conversion will happen on AVR.

I am using Yamaha AVR. Paid 5k for iPod touch and iPhone dock.

With that, remote of your AVR can be used to browse through your lists etc in iPod.

Why HDMI? Why not digital out?

CoAxial/Optical/HDMI -- all three are digital out and would be supported on media players and AVR.

Any of these would work.

HDMI is most tested interface, so least chances of any surprise. And in case you and to use high-res audio then HDMI is the only option.


Is not Wifi is subject to reflections, loss, and refractions like all wireless signals?

Ethernet is better and great for Internet based audio but won't a digital coax cable offer the best sound quality?

No, digital coax has limited bit-rate. It cant carry high-resolution/HD Audio.

WiFi suffers from all these issues, but even with that it would have around 10 - 50 mbps (Max is around 300 mbps) This is suffecient for Audio.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

If you are using iPod / iPad/ iPhone, then you need not purchase any media player....Just buy a "dock" that will connect it to AVR.

No, digital coax has limited bit-rate. It cant carry high-resolution/HD Audio.

WiFi suffers from all these issues, but even with that it would have around 10 - 50 mbps (Max is around 300 mbps) This is suffecient for Audio.

Which "dock" do you have in mind? Is there a dock that can store 1tb of lossless (FLAC) music?

I thought (from what I read on their websites) media players from Cambridge AuCoAxial/Optical/HDMI -- all three are digital out and would be supported on media players and AVR.

Any of these would work.

HDMI is most tested interface, so least chances of any surprise. And in case you and to use high-res audio then HDMI is the only option.

dio, Marantz etc allowed you to store music on them then using an iPod touch or iPad one could browse through this stored music.

Would products like Xstreamer, Asus Oplay, etc also work like the Marantz or Cambridge Audio?

Also I thought digital coax had adequate bandwidth for audiophile grade audio which was why most use digital coax.

Can some mod PLEASE rename this hijacked thread? Please!!

I Agree. I am extremely sorry for unintentionally hijacking this thread. The Mods could either rename the thread or move all the posts not related to the first post to another thread.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

I did not say ethernet is audiophile but I do believe ethernet (wired) should be better than Wifi.
Please don't believe it. It will be more item to add to the area of unjustified hifi faith and soon the manufacturers will be foisting it on us. With special cables, of course! :cool:
This discussion is not relavant for Audio. Reason is, even Audio CD has bit rate of 1.4 mbps.

USB / WiFi/ Ethernet all are 10 mbps or above. Current versions (USB 3/ WiFi N) are at least 100 mbps.

So, any of these would work for your use case.
Quite. It does not matter what language the courier speaks, or whether he drives a van or a bike: all that matters is that the packages arrive and arrive in time.

Is not Wifi is subject to reflections, loss, and refractions like all wireless signals?
That doesn't matter at all, because wired or wireless networks are also error correcting. so you cannot really say...
Ethernet is better and great for Internet based audio ...

Networking is a method of getting data from one place to another. It is not audio data, it is just data. There is not audiophile networking and non-audiophile networking: there is just networking that works or networking that doesn't. If you put too much concrete and steel between your router and your network device, you won't have a happy time listening to music on it --- but then, you wouldn't have a happy time browsing the web, or loading your spreadsheets over it either.

You can say that, unless it is physically damaged, wired networking is always going to work --- but, frankly, unless you are talking of a device that you carry around the house and garden, it's true of wifi that, if it works on day 1, it will be working the same way on day 1,001.

When you are setting the stuff up, you're being a networking guy: it does not matter to you that the data will be music.

When you are listening, you are being an audio guy: it does not matter to you that the means of transport is one form of networking or another.
HDMI is most tested interface, so least chances of any surprise.
Is it? coax/optical digital has been around a lot longer, surely?
 
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Re: Media player buying confusion

That doesn't matter at all, because wired or wireless networks are also error correcting. so you cannot really say...

Networking is a method of getting data from one place to another. It is not audio data, it is just data.

Is it? coax/optical digital has been around a lot longer, surely?

Actually I should try wireless and cat6 before knocking it. To be honest I have not. My existing audio system is old school. A CD player or turntable spins discs and send an analog signal to the amp that amplifies it and sends it to the speakers.

I did try sending this analog audio signal to another room via a product from RF Link and the results were NOT pretty. From your post, Thad, I understood that in the "kibbles and bits" domain the audio information is treated as data. Question I have is does this data not get distorted (dropped bits or a 0 becomes a 1) while be transmitted over wireless? Where is the error correction introduced? What sort of error correction is it? Which device does it - the AVR?

I have asked the electrician to give me a cat 6 cable from the MTNL modem to a wireless router near the AVR I figured I would like to see what the fuss about Pandora and Rhapsody is about. To be honest I am NOT interested in accessing audio data on the various PCs in the house. It would be chaos for my fragile mind.Information overload if you will.

Anyway let's get back to the topic on hand - media players. Lord knows we have digressed enough.:)
 
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Lot of people hv already posted lot of options, but here is my two paisa!

First, I am ruling out media players WDTV live, Roku, Xtreamer etc as ur requirement is primarily music.

So lets focus on music streamer/server
option 1: 15-20K - Dedicated Music PC or Logitech SBT, you get decent sound without an external DAC
option 2: 25-35K - Dedicated music streamer from Cambridge (Streamer 6). NAD, Marantz NA7004, Marantz M-CR603 (can spin disc too), Denon
option 3: 25-35K - option 1 plus decent DAC like MF VDAC II, Emotiva XDA
option 4: 25-35K - oppo 93 (spin CDs)
option 5: 35-50K - option 1 plus better DAC like MF MDAC1, Arcam rDAC
option 6: 50-60K - Oppo 95 (spin CDs)
option 7: 50-75K - option 2 plus better DACs like MF DAC1, Arcam rDAC (dont really know the value of it as music streamer internal DAC will be kind of useless)
option 8: 50-75K - option 1 plus even better DACs like Rega. seconds Benchmark
option 9: 1L+ - M1 Clic, Linn Sweaky, Naim UnitiQute, Olive 4HD. Linn Klimax, Naim Uniti2 (spins disc too). Olive 6HD Linn Akurate - mostly in increasing price tag sequence. with internal DAC. some with internal amp and CD player

Unfortunately, most are not available for demo in India and its difficult to make a informed decision.. if wud go with a PC + DAC option, flexible and value for money...
 
@soulofmusic, thanks for summarizing, I would say in option 1 better would be SBT since it has built in display and at the same price point you would never get built in display in HTPC and you would end up always keeping your TV on for selecting music. Of course if someone wants to keep the future HTPC route for video / game open then HTPC would be the way to go.

In option 3 and 5 one should also consider Gatorized Beresford Caiman Dac which although I have not heard must say that at least in reviews it was better than MF / Arcam DACs.
 
For a HPTC options, I think you can get a cheap android 5-6K and control it over wifi... i think tht wud b even better than SBT controller :) though not tested, seen articles claiming to do so...
 
For a HPTC options, I think you can get a cheap android 5-6K and control it over wifi... i think tht wud b even better than SBT controller :) though not tested, seen articles claiming to do so...

can it read attached usb disk? Any other way of attaching a local disk?
Is it possible to attach an external sound card - USB, or internal?
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

Actually I should try wireless and cat6 before knocking it. To be honest I have not. My existing audio system is old school. A CD player or turntable spins discs and send an analog signal to the amp that amplifies it and sends it to the speakers.
To be honest, I use only use any sort of networking to the hifi because running cables is not physically possible. Back in London, I had analogue and optical-digital input and output running the short under-carpet distance between the two.

But, that is not because I have any doubts about networking, just that the cables were a lot simpler and cheaper!

I did try sending this analog audio signal to another room via a product from RF Link and the results were NOT pretty. From your post, Thad, I understood that in the "kibbles and bits" domain the audio information is treated as data. Question I have is does this data not get distorted (dropped bits or a 0 becomes a 1) while be transmitted over wireless? Where is the error correction introduced? What sort of error correction is it? Which device does it - the AVR?
I don't know the product so cannot comment on it. I'm a retired systems manager, with enough knowledge and practical experience to connect up all the things in a medium-sized office, plus a bit. I could throw a few acronyms around, but I am not a network engineer. Actually, the structure of network data packets, and how network devices know that data sent has been received, and how they know that data received is complete and accurate is not that complex, but I'd still have to get the book off the shelf and, frankly, there is no point in our going to that level of detail. The OSI Model demonstrates the concepts, and the thinking that each level communicates with the same level. Error correction and flow control is done pretty low down on that list of levels. Always assuming that nothing is wrong, we have no need to worry about the data at that level.
To be honest I am NOT interested in accessing audio data on the various PCs in the house. It would be chaos for my fragile mind.Information overload if you will.
If your machines are networked, and you share data at all between them (Windows file and print sharing?) it's easy. Your software is just playing a file: it doesn't matter where it is. On the other hand, no, it's not compulsory :lol:

Anyway let's get back to the topic on hand - media players. Lord knows we have digressed enough.:)
The digression is probably inevitable. Not only does the hifi world have an obsession with how things are connected together, but that obsession is sometimes justified. For instance, all methods (optical, coax, usb, etc etc etc) of transmitting music in digital form should be equal, but they can only be as equal as the circuitry that handles them. Thus, "my DAC sounds better with S/PDIF than USB," can be justified.
 
Re: Media player buying confusion

option 2: 25-35K - Dedicated music streamer from Cambridge (Streamer 6). NAD, Marantz NA7004...Denon
option 4: 25-35K - oppo 93 (spin CDs)
option 6: 50-60K - Oppo 95 (spin CDs)
...

Keeping things simple I would choose between these 3. What does the 95 offer over the 93?

If your machines are networked.

We have 2 desktops. My son's and my wife's. I did not believe there was any need to network them (if you walked from one to the other - shortest possible wire path - they are 60 feet and 3 doors apart) so did not bother to ask the electrician to do this. Each machine is connected to the Internet via it's own DSL modem (via a router). Our bedroom AVR will be access me wife's PC since they share the same router.

For the living room I have a 3rd DSL modem and router. The living room AVR would be connected to this router. I would normally use this network (via my laptops) for the Internet.

This builds redundancy so that if one DSL connection dies we can still use the other. MTNL DSL modems need to be rebooted ever so often so keeping the, away from the PC makes things inconvienent.

option 1 better would be SBT since it has built in display..
The SBT is a nice device but it is rather inconvenient to operate as one has to hold the device and a USB hard drive. The SBT has no internal storage from what I know.
 
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