My latest build - the Elekit TU879S

[gobble]

Nice Review Gobble San, will drop by some time soon. I would like to also listen to my vintage Pioneer CS-15 high efficiency single driver speakers, will get that as well .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure. Drop by..

--G0bble

 

[gvenu]

Gobble,

Let your amp get fully broken. We will try it with my AP floor standars. Being MTM config, I do not think it needs so much of power and I remember Siva saying that it will match very well with tube amp as well (knowing most of the tume amps are low powered!)



Regards,
Venu

 

[spirovious]

Congrats & thanks for nice review.

 

[gobble]

Gobble,

Let your amp get fully broken. We will try it with my AP floor standars. Being MTM config, I do not think it needs so much of power and I remember Siva saying that it will match very well with tube amp as well (knowing most of the tume amps are low powered!)

Regards,
Venu

Why do you want to see my amp broken
Those humongous towers that I could make into an apartment complex?:argue: The tubes will blow like a tyre puncture I am sure ...

T.Anthony came over last Saturday. That guy was more passionate about improving my system than I was ... after repeat requests, I finally agreed to lift my speakers from the floor and place them on the sofa cushions. And the improvement in SQ was quiet good with lesser reflections off the floor. Yes I've been planning on it since months but never got around to it. Tomorrow I will get two 1 foot logs of timber as a base.
Its amazing what a little chat with the right person can do . My ears opened up to the little flaws and limitations of a full-ranger as we listened together and he pointed them out to me. I guess with his reputation as a seasoned speaker builder and seeing his passion I removed my mental filters that were blocking the suggestion even when I heard them by myself alone before. Er.. Wait a minute, maybe he just surreptitiously programmed me into wanting to upgrade my speakers ?!! ...

But still ... Venu only said that because he loves to hate my speakers with loads of bias prejudice and jealousy ... hyeah:

So now for a new thread on my speaker building DIY project. Sigh!

--G0bble

 

[gobble]

I forgot to post about my subwoofer problem.

Some of you might recall I have a REL T5 subwoofer that I use with speaker level inputs. The Shigaraki dac like all NOS dacs has a very relaxed presentation. 6moons even described it like this

The Shigaraki is an after-sundown system when critical concerns evaporate, the frontal brain deactivates and more intuivite/emotional/absorptive faculties awaken.

Truly an insightful description of the dac and I concur wholeheartedly. Now I struggled for a frustrating two weeks switching on and off the sub and listening for differences. The problem was that the moment I stepped back for an A/B comparison, my mind was jumping into analytical mode and the difference wasn't apparent. Yet the moment I slipped into a relaxed enjoy-the-music mood I was confounded by a certain absence of musical insight and that relaxed presentation with the sub switched on. It seemed to affect the higher frequencies as well like with small bells with no sub frequencies being played at the moment in the tracks. I strained hard to hear if the decay was longer or shorter but frustratingly it seemed to be the same. Then I began to suspect that the harmonics after the note was struck may not be right. Finally I have now concluded that the REL is introducing some kind of inaudible noise or distortion into the tube amp, effectively robbing the music of its insight,and all those things that can only be felt by the intuitive mind.

It seems as though the interaction of the class A/B amp in the sub with the output transformers of the tube amp is not flawless. But I am at a loss as to how to correct it. Now I cant let the $700 sub rob the $1500 dac of its magic, so its lying unused

Any tips and suggestions on how to troubleshoot this are welcome.

-G0bble

 

[Beast_of_burden]

Aha, the Shigaraki is a NOS DAC. I bought a hand built MHDT NOS DAC direct from Taiwan(IIRC), the sound excelled in the midrange but it wasnt extended on either end of the spectrum. I guess this is typical of a NOS DAC - they are known for their ease of presentation and not so much for outright bass and sizzle. I can see how this DAC would make sense with a nice 2A3 SET in a near-field setup where the amp would impart a great deal of inner bloom to the music. We are talking seriously euphonic sound here.

If you believe that the speaker level input to the sub is not working, you should try a tube-preamp with two pre-outs. Let me if you want to try this out, I can help.

 

[gobble]

Aha, the Shigaraki is a NOS DAC. I bought a hand built MHDT NOS DAC direct from Taiwan(IIRC), the sound excelled in the midrange but it wasnt extended on either end of the spectrum. I guess this is typical of a NOS DAC - they are known for their ease of presentation and not so much for outright bass and sizzle. I can see how this DAC would make sense with a nice 2A3 SET in a near-field setup where the amp would impart a great deal of inner bloom to the music. We are talking seriously euphonic sound here.

If you believe that the speaker level input to the sub is not working, you should try a tube-preamp with two pre-outs. Let me if you want to try this out, I can help.

I dont know if the sub integration has to do with the amp. Sometimes the line out from the sub to the power amps can have impedance mismatch issues. I discarded this approach after I found this to be issue with a martin logan dynamo i owned years ago. The best way to resolve this to either have a preamp with two line outs or connect the power amp high level outputs to the sub's high level inputs.

Still, the best way to integrate a sub is through RTA and equalization. You need to put something like the DEQ2496 in the signal chain and see how it works for you. Damping the room is also key, but the way horns interact with the room is a little wierd. I have tried damping the room with fibreglass panels, but no luck whatsoever.

If you are up for it, I can bring along my DEQ2496 with the calibration mic and see how it works in your system.

Hi BoB
I forgot to reply earlier, sorry. As you now know, I dont have a sub out. And I plan to get on with the business of living and forget about buying more gear - another pre for sub out ? No way!! Thats the cost of a pre + another 10K for good ICs.

But I sure am interested in your observations and measurements with the DEQ2496.

Tijimon mentioned in passing that the phase may not be right. Maybe I should rotate the sub around an axis and check that. but the challenge is jumping straight into the intuitive mind mode when doing an A/B. Almost impossible, have to wait 10 mins before the mind settles in by then the A/B is lost!

The frequency extension of this dac is quiet good actually I suspect much better than other NOS dacs, but my speakers fall rapidly after 10K so its only an inference based on listening tests as of now.

--G0bble

 

[doors666]

You dont need a full pre. just slap a lowpass and high pass in a box and you are done. many people will be able to help you with the circuit.

I thought you also had the jordans, what happened to them. how do they fair as compared to the fostex. i was looking forward to a comparison between jordans, fostex, alpairs and others.

 

[gobble]

You dont need a full pre. just slap a lowpass and high pass in a box and you are done. many people will be able to help you with the circuit.

I thought you also had the jordans, what happened to them. how do they fair as compared to the fostex. i was looking forward to a comparison between jordans, fostex, alpairs and others.

The idea was that I would use the Jordans with the Rel sub. But now that I know it is detrimental to the SQ I am contemplating getting bass drivers and making a 2-way. will post ideas on the speaker building thread.

--G0bble

 

[omishra]

Just stumbled upon this thread. Congratulations!

 

[Beast_of_burden]

Hi BoB
I forgot to reply earlier, sorry. As you now know, I dont have a sub out. And I plan to get on with the business of living and forget about buying more gear - another pre for sub out ? No way!! Thats the cost of a pre + another 10K for good ICs.

But I sure am interested in your observations and measurements with the DEQ2496.

Tijimon mentioned in passing that the phase may not be right. Maybe I should rotate the sub around an axis and check that. but the challenge is jumping straight into the intuitive mind mode when doing an A/B. Almost impossible, have to wait 10 mins before the mind settles in by then the A/B is lost!

The frequency extension of this dac is quiet good actually I suspect much better than other NOS dacs, but my speakers fall rapidly after 10K so its only an inference based on listening tests as of now.

--G0bble

In all seriousness here, you have to take it easy! If you are 30 seconds into A/B and cannot find any difference, then it is the end of the A/B comparison. I know everything is supposed to be relative and improvements are supposed to be incremental too. It is very hard when you do not have a clear view of what exactly you are seeking. Knowing how elusive that magical sound can be, one has to take comfort in the knowledge that you will know it when you hear it. But it doesnt come easy. Sound has to be one of the most difficult things to mould and shape to your tastes.

I had the luxury of working from home in Chicago for nearly a year during which time I bought and sold various pieces of equipment on audiogon and Ebay. I had damped my apartment living room with 4 mattresses stood up against the walls(very effective). I had a highly rated but cheap 2A3 SET, ML Dynamo sub, a cheap but decent chinese preamp, Apple AE as a digital source. My system never sounded right until I got the Behringer DEQ2496 and equalized. That is when magic happened. If you noticed none of these components are high end or expensive. In the end the components that really mattered were the power amp, the speakers and sub, the DEQ and not to forget the room damping. The cables, pre-amp and DAC mattered less in the final analysis. I was using the DACs in the DEQ. The alternative is to go all in at great expense with a single brand such as Audio note or Krell depending on your preference(not quite as much fun or agony).

I will have lots of free time after March 31st. We can try some of my ideas and see where it takes your system. I can bring the DEQ, the Almarro and the Dared preamp along to see how they work with your components.

 

[gobble]

In all seriousness here, you have to take it easy! If you are 30 seconds into A/B and cannot find any difference, then it is the end of the A/B comparison. I know everything is supposed to be relative and improvements are supposed to be incremental too. It is very hard when you do not have a clear view of what exactly you are seeking. Knowing how elusive that magical sound can be, one has to take comfort in the knowledge that you will know it when you hear it. But it doesnt come easy. Sound has to be one of the most difficult things to mould and shape to your tastes.

I had the luxury of working from home in Chicago for nearly a year during which time I bought and sold various pieces of equipment on audiogon and Ebay. I had damped my apartment living room with 4 mattresses stood up against the walls(very effective). I had a highly rated but cheap 2A3 SET, ML Dynamo sub, a cheap but decent chinese preamp, Apple AE as a digital source. My system never sounded right until I got the Behringer DEQ2496 and equalized. That is when magic happened. If you noticed none of these components are high end or expensive. In the end the components that really mattered were the power amp, the speakers and sub, the DEQ and not to forget the room damping. The cables, pre-amp and DAC mattered less in the final analysis. I was using the DACs in the DEQ. The alternative is to go all in at great expense with a single brand such as Audio note or Krell depending on your preference(not quite as much fun or agony).

I will have lots of free time after March 31st. We can try some of my ideas and see where it takes your system. I can bring the DEQ, the Almarro and the Dared preamp along to see how they work with your components.

Wow! I would love to meet you. 31st sounds like a plan. Lets PM our numbers and email.

Cheers

 

[doors666]

I forgot to post about my subwoofer problem.

Some of you might recall I have a REL T5 subwoofer that I use with speaker level inputs. The Shigaraki dac like all NOS dacs has a very relaxed presentation. 6moons even described it like this


Truly an insightful description of the dac and I concur wholeheartedly. Now I struggled for a frustrating two weeks switching on and off the sub and listening for differences. The problem was that the moment I stepped back for an A/B comparison, my mind was jumping into analytical mode and the difference wasn't apparent. Yet the moment I slipped into a relaxed enjoy-the-music mood I was confounded by a certain absence of musical insight and that relaxed presentation with the sub switched on. It seemed to affect the higher frequencies as well like with small bells with no sub frequencies being played at the moment in the tracks. I strained hard to hear if the decay was longer or shorter but frustratingly it seemed to be the same. Then I began to suspect that the harmonics after the note was struck may not be right. Finally I have now concluded that the REL is introducing some kind of inaudible noise or distortion into the tube amp, effectively robbing the music of its insight,and all those things that can only be felt by the intuitive mind.

It seems as though the interaction of the class A/B amp in the sub with the output transformers of the tube amp is not flawless. But I am at a loss as to how to correct it. Now I cant let the $700 sub rob the $1500 dac of its magic, so its lying unused

Any tips and suggestions on how to troubleshoot this are welcome.

-G0bble

try a couple of these things and see if you see any improvement.
since you are using digital out from your cd player/pc, use the analog outs from the player to feed the signal to the sub. Sure the signal might not be as clean as using from your dac, but at lower frequencies we are less prone to distortion.
Move the sub between the dac and the amp. this is assuming of course your rel has line level in and out and your dac gives line level output, not lesser.
If your amp has tape out or something like that, try that also for sub. you will have to manually control the sub volume though.

If you are really game for modifying your speakers, check out full range forums on diyaudio, there are quite a few designs for this. Its called FAST (full range assited sub technology or some crap like that). Usual suspects are CSS SDX, peerless drivers for this purpose. Check out the dayton and seas L26 also as these are metal cones and might do a better job with your jordans. Even mark audio has a woofer now for low end job. You can also make two separate cabs for the bass drivers and keep the jordan cabs on top of that. There are designs like that. Also check with paul kittinger on parts express forums and see if he can design a TL or MLTL cabinet for you for the bass driver. He is a nice guy and usually does it for people (he's the guy who did the salk sound cabs and is the goto guy for tl designs).
Corrson also has some vifa 6-7" drivers that look really good, dont know their status though whether they still sell to diy crowd or not.

 

[gobble]

Today, possibly more than a year since I purchased the REL T5, I finally succeeded in integrating the sound with the full range speakers. :clapping: The sub was lying around in the corner for last 1 year and my entire audio system was in a state of neglect without a proper arrangement of the speakers sitting on the floor and with no stands to tackle the floor bounce and reflections. Even my audio rack was collecting dust . So I finally got around to acquiring decent stands for my speakers - they are 10x10x9" blocks of stone with carvings to make them look pretty. Given the height of my speakers is 3ft, they are sufficient. The floor bounce and reflections (without sub) are now gone. Turns out (and like I suspected) the sub frequencies were resulting in worsening the effects of reflections from the main speakers and the resolution was to put the speakers on a stand.

After a 4 hour listening session, I can confidently say the integration is close to perfect. Hmmmm ok perfection is like a government public transport bus that arrives late and does not halt at your bus stand (which happens to be without an overhead shelter), when one has been waiting for longer than an hour in the blistering sun. So its like running behind an escaping bus ... Is it any different for audiophiles? But cynicism aside I am happy to hear a sound that matches FS in depth and punch of LF.

For the record, my listening room is 13.5ftx18ftx12ft ceiling with a longitudinal passage of of 6ftx4ft parallel to a door that opens into the kitchen extending the total length of half the room width to longer than 24 ft. The 8" Rel T5 sub does a great job of supplying a tight sound with knockout punch with my amplifier's volume pot set to 1 notch above 9 O'clock. Remember I am using speaker level inputs into the sub from an 8.5watts tube amp. The sub volume is set to 9 O'clock again. No noticeable loss of texture or tactile magic that a Fostex driver provides on percussive hand instruments (of course the impression might change after listening to $$$$ gear ). But for now, I think I can say the decision to opt for the most budgety REL music sub has been justified.

I played both western instrumentals and Carnatic (including some with great music but poor recordings where I thought only the upper bass region would kick in - to check for tubbiness) and watched out closely for smearing effect or tailing effect on notes especially listening to pieces with rapid hand strokes on Mridangam, Tabla and other Indian drums on percussion albums. There appears to be nothing that causes irritation similar to a large housefly buzzing around the audiophiles face during a critical audition . With some minor adjustments of the crossover finally set around 60hz, its 12db per octave gentle slope takes care of the dip in volume below 100hz that the fostex drivers deliver. Now there is on particular tracks, the Grrrr of low frequencies hitting the body, and in general a punch, slam and that extra bit of liveliness in every track, with no accompanying muddiness about it. (I actually pulled my legs up on the sofa and looked around for a BullDog on one track ). I daresay I don't think anybody else owning a 2.5 or 3 way floor standers will now say that the sound lacks punch compared to a FS. Or that owning a full-range setup means sacrificing LF joy (watch out for my upcoming book - "The joy of LF" ). The integration is very very tight and mimics a 2.0 system. :yahoo: But to be circumspect, I would like to listen to a 2 or 3-way speaker setup and retrain my ears before I can become smug about it.

An opinion from a visiting audiophile would be good. The setup is finally ready to the level where I can actually invite people for a listen. hyeah: It was just a matter of arrangement but something that saw sheer neglect for more than a year (I think I will make a good government babu? ). To contrast, the earlier sound was err... an embarrassment.

The limitations of the Fostex with a slight hotness around 2-4khz and not so extended and crispy ultra-high frequencies remains. Hopefully my speaker build project with the Jordans will bring some extraordinary delight in this area when I complete it.

Part of the improvement also came from swapping out the Nordost blue heaven ICs and replacing it with a Blue Jeans LC-1 Low Capacitance RCA Audio Cable, which I purchased more than a year back but never used. Yet again the sound reflections due to poor speaker arrangement had put me off from passing a proper judgement of another component, this time the the IC . When I tried it yesterday after I got the speaker stands, it became immediately apparent that the $200+ Nordost BH lack dynamics and subtracts punch from the sound. The Nordost has other merits of course, but why settle for less when paying more while another product delivers better for less? The sound with the LC-1 is larger, more "here and alive", and bold besides being good with dynamics.

Some poor quality pics from my cell

The speakers sit on and squash some blu-tack on the bottom corners, and the stone blocks in turn squash 4 blobs of blu-tack for fun, since they are slightly uneven by an mm here and there and not perfectly flat.

-G0bble

 

[t.antony]

Excellent job with the stands Rahul, they are a good match in form and perfect in function.

Now that you have tamed the LF , what about fine tuning the upper spectrum with something like this? Madisound Speaker Store

Tack is supposedly having excellent damping properties, have you experimented with thicker layers of tack under speaker?

 

[gobble]

Excellent job with the stands Rahul, they are a good match in form and perfect in function.

Now that you have tamed the LF , what about fine tuning the upper spectrum with something like this? Madisound Speaker Store

Tack is supposedly having excellent damping properties, have you experimented with thicker layers of tack under speaker?

Thanks Antony. I did consider it long back, then decided I did not want a crossover or electronics of any kind in the chain, hence went for the jordans. Now to find time to build those.

I still remember fondly your enthusiasm and passion to try and setup my gear correctly - I will be honored if you drop by for a listen on a Sunday and give your opinion.

--G0bble

 

[santhosh]

Enjoyed reading your post Gobble. The stands look good and glad they have solved your problem. I will drop by for a listen sometime soon.

 

[gobble]

Enjoyed reading your post Gobble. The stands look good and glad they have solved your problem. I will drop by for a listen sometime soon.

Yeah I was going to call you... just call me and drop by whenever you have the time

--G

 

[captrajesh]

Hey congrats Rahul. I hope to drop by during my next visit to Bangalore.

BTW what happened to the wooden blocks. I'm sure the nearby chicken shop wala would've lapped them up.

 

[santhosh]

Hey congrats Rahul. I hope to drop by during my next visit to Bangalore.

Let us try and go together Capt.

BTW what happened to the wooden blocks. I'm sure the nearby chicken shop wala would've lapped them up.

Good one Captain. ROTFLMAO