My Marantz PM 6005 and Sonodyne 2605 story

[square_wave]

In that scenario, you are pretty much listening nearfield. If you take care of reflections in the rest of the hall using adequate / aforesaid material, you should get pretty decent results. In fact you should be getting a lot of bass reinforcement since the speakers are too near the front wall and so is your head to the back wall.

Make sure your source is optimal.

Is your speaker and amplifier a good match ? I do not have any experience with them. Have you auditioned before you picked them up ?

 

[elangoas]

Hmmmm, is the lack of mids/ bass a speaker/ speaker voicing issue (OR) a room issue (OR) both ?

ciao
gr

I guess it could also be because of under-powered amp....

I have paired the 2605 with 2 AVR, 2 stereo amplifiers & Pre-power combo so far & i would say they need powerful amplifier to get the best out of them....

 

[sound_cycle]

In fact you should be getting a lot of bass reinforcement since the speakers are too near the front wall and so is your head to the back wall.

Make sure your source is optimal.

Is your speaker and amplifier a good match ? I do not have any experience with them. Have you auditioned before you picked them up ?

I expected to have a problem with booming bass problem in my almost near field setup. I thought that the bass would overwhelm the other frequencies

To my surprise that problem does not exist ! The mids and low frequency are faint, and the sound signature is bright. Moving the speakers closer to the back wall did not make any difference.

I read that the dispersion pattern of the lower frequencies is concentric while the higher frequencies are very directed and was therefore slightly toeing out the speakers (about 10 deg) in an attempt to tame the brightness.

Therefore I thought that the speaker may be implicated over room issues.

My source is a WDTV transport playing FLAC files I converted using EAC from my CDs.

Regrettably I did not (could not is the only excuse I have) audition either the speakers or the amp before buying.

I guess it could also be because of under-powered amp....

Possible I guess but would that differentially affect low and mid frequencies ?

My theory was that these are the same drivers as in their bookshelfs and therefore should not be more power hungry. Does that notion fly or crash and burn ?

The next trial is with what I will term the ohm shanti ohm brightness taming solution I read about on hfv, this evening. It seemed to work really last night but that was a very hurried brief hear

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

My theory was that these are the same drivers as in their bookshelfs and therefore should not be more power hungry. Does that notion fly or crash and burn ?

ciao
gr

Hmmm....They have additional 2 woofers in each FS in addition to the BS driver ....So more power justified....

 

[square_wave]

Since you are in Hyderabad, isnt there a sonydyne dealer there ?

Cant you take your amp his place and do a trial run on the same model - speakers? In the process, you can listen to another amp which the dealer might recommend.

 

[sound_cycle]

Since you are in Hyderabad, isnt there a sonydyne dealer there ?

The nearest dealer is in Bengaluru. They have a retail partner here - however he does not stock any Sonodyne equipment or offer any possibility for auditions.

On their website, Sonodyne recommend their SiA 320 amplifier for the 2605. The 320 is specced at 80W (I am not sure if that RMS figure is for both channel or per channel). The PM 6005 which I have is rated at 45W per channel, the manual says simultaneous . The difference between them is marginal ie the recommended amp is 15% more powerful (in loudness terms). THD wise the 6005 is slightly better - rated at 0.08% vs 0.1%. The SNR for the 6005 is 102 db vs the 83 db for the Sia 320.

It has been pointed out to me that the Marantzes are considered to be bright amps, and that that specs are no replacement for listening, I could not listen to either, the SiA did not appear to be highly regarded on hfv while I found almost no reviews of the 6005.

Therefore I opted for the Marantz amp. This was the thinking when I opted for the 6005, the specs-ier of the two.


ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

The nearest dealer is in Bengaluru. They have a retail partner here - however he does not stock any Sonodyne equipment or offer any possibility for auditions.

On their website, Sonodyne recommend their SiA 320 amplifier for the 2605. The 320 is specced at 80W (I am not sure if that RMS figure is for both channel or per channel). The PM 6005 which I have is rated at 45W per channel, the manual says simultaneous . The difference between them is marginal ie the recommended amp is 15% more powerful (in loudness terms). THD wise the 6005 is slightly better - rated at 0.08% vs 0.1%. The SNR for the 6005 is 102 db vs the 83 db for the Sia 320.

It has been pointed out to me that the Marantzes are considered to be bright amps, and that that specs are no replacement for listening, I could not listen to either, the SiA did not appear to be highly regarded on hfv while I found almost no reviews of the 6005.

Therefore I opted for the Marantz amp. This was the thinking when I opted for the 6005, the specs-ier of the two.


ciao
gr

Marantz have rolled of highs... Thatz there sound signature.... & thatz why they pair well with some speaker with metal tweeters

I have had a good listen to Sonus 2605 with SIa 320amplifier... @ about 60 ~ 75% of the volume, it sounded good...(But not bright). The source used was original audio CD played from Sony DVD player....

Anymore volume you push, it will start to disort & sounding bright.... This happens to many of the under powered amps.....

My inputs are from actual listening experience...

Sonodyne Amplifieres should have been made to match well with their speakers just like how NAD & PSB pair well....

 

[sound_cycle]

I have had a good listen to Sonus 2605 with SIa 320amplifier... @ about 60 ~ 75% of the volume, it sounded good...(But not bright). The source used was original audio CD played from Sony DVD player....

Anymore volume you push, it will start to disort & sounding bright.... This happens to many of the under powered amps.....

I have not gone beyond the 10 o clock position on the amp vol control. That is way too loud for me.

There is no distortion at that volume.

I have, like you described used a Sony DVD player, sending CD output over optical to the DAC of the Marantz.

The highs dominate. The mids and lows are non existent.

I don't have a problem with distortion, so I guess the underpowered amp angle can be kept aside as a potential issue ?

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

I have not gone beyond the 10 o clock position on the amp vol control. That is way too loud for me.

There is no distortion at that volume.

I have, like you described used a Sony DVD player, sending CD output over optical to the DAC of the Marantz.

The highs dominate. The mids and lows are non existent.

I don't have a problem with distortion, so I guess the underpowered amp angle can be kept aside as a potential issue ?

ciao
gr

Ok lemme explain with an other example... I tried the same song (FLAC) with two differnet AVR's

One with Marantz SR 5200.... There was mids & highs but no bass....
other time with few Onkyo AVR... Now this was as i expected with good amount of bass...

On further digging why there were no lows with Marantz SR5200 was that the maximum power that it could output was 90 w Maximum with 2 channels driven..

Onkyo had around 90 W/channel... I thought it was because of this....

 

[anirbandd]

The Sonodyne 320 is 80w per channel..

It pairs well with the 2605...

 

[anirbandd]

@OP: buddy, i think there is definitely something with your room placement or with your gear. Right now I am listening to Guns n Roses Knockin on Heaven's Door and a host of other GnR songs. They sounds just perfect. November Rain... Maaan.

Call up Sonodyne service in your city and ask them to send someone.

 

[theironhorse]

@OP: buddy, i think there is definitely something with your room placement or with your gear. Right now I am listening to Guns n Roses Knockin on Heaven's Door and a host of other GnR songs. They sounds just perfect. November Rain... Maaan.

Call up Sonodyne service in your city and ask them to send someone.

they did send someone for the chekck-up and this being India the tech's hardly know of proper sound and speaker placement. that guy just came and inspected for product failure and left.

i found the bass missing too but as i have new speakers i expect it to reach there soon but the expected bass from a FS is missing.

saying the setup is overly bright will be exagerration but the bass is definitely under whelming.

forget bout bloated /boomy bass etc.. it needs to be present there for the rest of the things to come into picture..

 

[anirbandd]

Try boom bass punjabi songs, Amplifier, Blue Eyes etc..

And if at all possible, connect another amplifier...
Or take your Marantz to another speaker and test.

 

[theironhorse]

Try boom bass punjabi songs, Amplifier, Blue Eyes etc..

And if at all possible, connect another amplifier...
Or take your Marantz to another speaker and test.

i will try hooking my NAD and Norge to @sound_cycle system and see what difference we get.

 

[sound_cycle]

Try boom bass punjabi songs, Amplifier, Blue Eyes etc..

And if at all possible, connect another amplifier...
Or take your Marantz to another speaker and test.

I tried listening to my GnR CD inspired by your post and all. At my usual low volume. Same old same old.

I realize that your speakers are approximately the same age, but sound good acceptably good all the same. Maybe the burn in time is not the issue then.

The absolute last ditch experiment is Aman's generous offer to get his amps over and see how the speakers sound. or try out my amp with his speakers or something.

ciao
gr

 

[theironhorse]

I tried listening to my GnR CD inspired by your post and all. At my usual low volume. Same old same old.

I realize that your speakers are approximately the same age, but sound good acceptably good all the same. Maybe the burn in time is not the issue then.

The absolute last ditch experiment is Aman's generous offer to get his amps over and see how the speakers sound. or try out my amp with his speakers or something.

ciao
gr

will do that at the earliest. but after a visit to your place any build flaw is overruled. i am sure we are missing out on something. will get modi/odac and the amps and will try it out. the bass cannot be that feeble.

 

[Rabepobemababe]

Maybe the burn in time is not the issue then.

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? | Audioholics

I did not find anything wrong with the speaker placement in the first photograph (with the TV in the centre, to the wall). The speakers were not in the corners, and there was plenty of space to the left of the left speaker and right of the right speaker, which is good. Sure, the back of the listener would be against the back wall, which is not very ideal. But then, this is how most of the sofas would get placed in most medium sized apartment drawing rooms (which double up as listening rooms). It is rare (and also odd) that the sofas leave more space behind them than in their front in an apartment drawing room (the theory demands for twice the length behind, than what is inbetween the speaker and the listening position) . A thick piled wall-carpet or a fluffy Rajai to the wall could have assauged the adversities posed by the lack of space behind the listener in this arrangement, while the carpet on the floor could have remained.

I don't believe that changing your amplifier / receiver now will change the sound appreciably so as to make it very likeable. If you do find dramatic improvement, make sure you try for the $10,000.00 prize money here:

http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/rcrules.htm

Adults used to living / working in noisy surroundings have difficulty in hearing above 13 KHz at the reference level. So, speaker brightness may actually not be troublesome to some. Tellapur still is a quiet area, and so 16 KHz would be a good guess for an upper limit of an adult. Probably, that's what makes a speaker brighter for some. Forget about crossing 18 KHz if you are past 30. Maintaining ear-hygiene, employing ear-protection, living / working in quiet surroundings, and talking less, do help.

Also, if you are very familiar with the "live" sound of some of the instruments being played on your speakers, even the slightest hint of "not true" ness will bother you like hell. Phase differences in speaker sound are also known to bother people, sometimes even unconsciously.

 

[anirbandd]

I tried listening to my GnR CD inspired by your post and all. At my usual low volume. Same old same old.

I realize that your speakers are approximately the same age, but sound good acceptably good all the same. Maybe the burn in time is not the issue then.

The absolute last ditch experiment is Aman's generous offer to get his amps over and see how the speakers sound. or try out my amp with his speakers or something.

ciao
gr

yeah i bought them at this last sale

and yes try both ways.. your amp his speakers, his amp your speakers.

 

[anirbandd]

will do that at the earliest. but after a visit to your place any build flaw is overruled. i am sure we are missing out on something. will get modi/odac and the amps and will try it out. the bass cannot be that feeble.

bass is NOT feeble. once it starts firing, it'll blow you away [considering the price of speakers ].

listen to For Whom The Bell Tolls once the system is good.

 

[sound_cycle]

bass is NOT feeble. once it starts firing, it'll blow you away [considering the price of speakers ].

listen to For Whom The Bell Tolls once the system is good.

Thanks Rabepobemababe, theironhorse, anirbandd.

Reading that SQ is not an issue with the 2605s is good to know.

On mine the mid and low frequency are all but not there.

I've tried to break down the problem to identify possibilities

1. Burn in is an unlikely candidate - similar vintage as anirban's speakers.
   
2. Room treatment and positioning - generally very important factors - but cannot change the basic SQ. I have padded my living room with rugs and blankets and mats, and as expected no magic bass boost happened. The sound stage works. As inyou can tell left, centre and right apart with a test track for instance. They never "come together" while playing any music. My ***theory*** is that with the low and midtones not being produced there is no chance for the speakers to "sing together" or sound good. Note: My problem with the sound is in the basics, sound stage and proper imaging are for later. Boomy bass is not a problem (there is no bass is), I therefore am discounting these as causal factors.
   
3. Amp/ audio chain - have tried out my rig with Wharfedale and Mission speakers. The resulting SQ was very much to my liking. I have played my speakers with a Marantz CD-P hooked up to Yamaha amp. The missing mids/ lows remained missing. I therefore exclude my source/ amp from being causal factors.
   
4. Source - Flac files which I converted using EAC from CD. Unlikely to be the cause
   
5. Listeners - 5 people agree that the mids/ lows are signficantly under represented. The tech who came over could not bear to listen to Abida Parveen;s voice playing! So it is not my imagination

That leaves ONLY my speakers as the problem.

One last hopeful experiment / trial remains. Hooking them up to Aman's amps. I could also carry my speakers across.

What if that last does not work ? I have to figure out that.

Clutching at straws while I get swept over Niagara falls type ideas

1) Anirban - what are your serial numbers ? (I have no idea if that will tell us anything I confess)

2) Are there any (crude) diagnostic tests to establish if the speakers deliver lows/ mids/ high well. Listening one ofc have been done. I want to find out if the crossover is working as is should (we have an mdf dabba, transducers and some electronics that control them - if there is anything wrong it should be there. That cannot however explain why two speakers would have an identical problem though). Test tones or taking that metal bridge between the biwiring terminals or something

3) Any others ???? I am already hearing The Bells Toll

ciao
gr