Need help to select a pair of towers for Stereo

As I live in a small town, I don't have the luxury of getting a demo. I already own Paradigms and love its sound signature and I'm completely happy with the Paradigm Monitor movie performance in my room.. But, I was looking to improve a bit more clarity in the mid range and I wished the speaker could be more dynamic in lower volumes and craved for slightly a bit more wider soundstage.

So, the Premier 800F ticked all the boxes. I was also considering the Klipsch RP-8000F fronts and RP-504C centers. But, the deals offered by the dealers wasn't that good as Paradigms.. Klipsch was so costly here in India (the Premiers were costlier though when compared to Klipsch) but, only by a small margin...as I couldnt audition klipsch, I also feared the Klipsch might be too bright for my ears...

Forum member Kiran_B also had Monitor series as I did... He listened to both 800F and 8000RP in his room and from his experience and good deal with the dealer, I chose the Paradigm way.
 
As I live in a small town, I don't have the luxury of getting a demo. I already own Paradigms and love its sound signature and I'm completely happy with the Paradigm Monitor movie performance in my room.. But, I was looking to improve a bit more clarity in the mid range and I wished the speaker could be more dynamic in lower volumes and craved for slightly a bit more wider soundstage.

So, the Premier 800F ticked all the boxes. I was also considering the Klipsch RP-8000F fronts and RP-504C centers. But, the deals offered by the dealers wasn't that good as Paradigms.. Klipsch was so costly here in India (the Premiers were costlier though when compared to Klipsch) but, only by a small margin...as I couldnt audition klipsch, I also feared the Klipsch might be too bright for my ears...

Forum member Kiran_B also had Monitor series as I did... He listened to both 800F and 8000RP in his room and from his experience and good deal with the dealer, I chose the Paradigm way.

I didn't listen to the Premiers yet... It should take 10-15 days to reach my place...
 
That may not be entirely accurate. the company is IAG and if you’ve seen its track record recently, they’ve flooded the internet with reviews of their products.

Pls do check this link. Peter comeau talks about the brands IAG manages and philosophies of those brands and products.

 
Pls do check this link. Peter comeau talks about the brands IAG manages and philosophies of those brands and products.


Thanks. An insightful read into the design approach behind one of the most affordable and accessible range of speakers for many of us. This paragraph is quite telling:

“For Comeau, such people are not asking the right questions. “They’re not looking at the loudspeaker as a music reproducer, they’re looking at it as some technical device. I’ve seen people come into our research department and they start playing around with some technical problem, and they start trying to ‘correct’ that with DSP, for example. That’s where things go wrong in active loudspeakers – people think, “at last, I’ve got full control therefore I can correct everything. A lot of this approach to acoustic design comes down to whether you’re a theoretician, or a craftsman. My feeling is that the craftsman approach gives the greatest benefits of yielding an enjoyable musical performance at the end of the day.”

I wish he had also said a few words on the other IAG brands, like Castle - my speakers and Mission.
 
Thanks. An insightful read into the design approach behind one of the most affordable and accessible range of speakers for many of us. This paragraph is quite telling:

“For Comeau, such people are not asking the right questions. “They’re not looking at the loudspeaker as a music reproducer, they’re looking at it as some technical device. I’ve seen people come into our research department and they start playing around with some technical problem, and they start trying to ‘correct’ that with DSP, for example. That’s where things go wrong in active loudspeakers – people think, “at last, I’ve got full control therefore I can correct everything. A lot of this approach to acoustic design comes down to whether you’re a theoretician, or a craftsman. My feeling is that the craftsman approach gives the greatest benefits of yielding an enjoyable musical performance at the end of the day.”

I wish he had also said a few words on the other IAG brands, like Castle - my speakers and Mission.

I like where he doesnt avoid the topic of going chinese and where he accepts straightaway that speakers are now designed in weeks instead of taking years. Here is also one interview of him. I like his voice and accent. Traits of a true gentleman. Quality unit amplifier domestic (quad) never knew it was an acronym.

 
I went to ProFx this weekend for round 2 of Q950 audition. I also listened to Polk Legend L600 quite a bit. Sorry for the long post.

I used BubbleUPnP on my Android phone to stream from Qobuz to Denon 4500h receiver over UPnP. Some of the tracks I played are,
Keith Don't Go by Nils Lofgren
You and Your Friend bt Dire Straits
The Joke by Brandi Carlile
Hey Now by London Grammar
You want It Darker by Leonard Cohen
Wonderful Life by Katie Melua
The Sound of Silence by Disturbed
Hotel Califonia 2013 Remaster by Eagles
With All My Love by Melaine De Biasio
Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua
A Thousand Kisses Deep by Leonard Cohen
Liquid Spirit by Gregory Porter
Lovesong by Adele

Impressions of Q950:
Nothing much changed from my impressions from the audition last week with Denon PMA Stereo Receiver.
Good bass. I felt the bass was too much last time. But it seemed okay this time, in fact almost perfect. The track "Hey Now" has lot of sub-bass, the whole listening room was shaking and rattling. I could feel the vibrations on the floor, the couch, my whole body and everything else present in the room. I even got up and checked if the SVS sub that was present in the room was on. It was bloody good. But everything else was a let down except the soundstage.

The soundstage is quite good. I felt it was kind of narrow last time but not this time. Q950s present an enveloping and forward soundstage. But imaging wasn't that great, I could hear individual instruments clearly but couldn't locate their precise positions in the sound field. Polk S60s with Pioneer Elite Receiver present a much better imaging.

Midrange and vocals have a forward presentation. Vocals seem to take center-stage and they lose the finesse in the process.

The biggest disappointment was actually in high frequencies. It simply lacks the resolution, details, liveliness and musicality of even Polk S60s. S60's top end do sound slightly brighter but they convey lot more detail and resolution and sound more livelier. Comparison with Arias is not even worth discussing.

Overall Q950s come across as bright speakers due to their somewhat ill defined treble and forward presentation of vocals. I may actually pick Polk S60s over Q950s despite Polk's slightly brighter overall presentation. S60s sound much more musical for most part and vocals retain the originality of the singers voices. I am not sure to what extent Denon to be blamed here. It sounds like a bright speaker paired with a bright sounding receiver. I have a strong feeling that Q950s may sound a lot better with a warm Amplifier/DAC combo. Q950s are not for me. I am fully convinced that KEF's sound signature is not for me, I didn't even bother to ask for a demo of R3 that was in the room.

Polk Legend L600:
The speaker stands taller at about 48 inches with real wood veneer. The front fascia doesn't look that premium but feels solid and well built.

The soundstage is good but not as enveloping as Q950s, almost same as Aria 926 though. Imaging is better than Q950s. I could locate positions of different instruments in the sound field.

Low end is pretty good, almost as good as Q950s. The bass response for "Hey Now" track was quite good but I felt less of it on my body, the couch and the floor compared to Q950. The audible bass response was almost the same though. The impression is the same for most tracks. Q950s have stronger bass response but I liked the L600's bass response better, it was present but not intrusive.

Midrange and vocals is where Q950 and L600 were poles apart. L600s have somewhat recessed vocal presentation. It felt as if vocal frequencies were put through a filter and all dynamic swings filtered out. Vocals felt lifeless, flat, thin and distant sounding. Some of the tracks, from female singers, like Lovesong by Adele and Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua lacked that intimacy and seductiveness. "The Joke" failed to present the upswings in Brandi Carlile's voice. The dramatic buildup in "The Sound of Silence" was missing. Even the track "Wonderful Life" by Katie Melua failed to convey the melodiousness of the overall presentation. The track "Liquid Spirit" lacked the rhythm. But overall it still felt more musical and listenable than the forward sounding Q950s. The sad part is even L600's poorer sibling S60s have better vocals. They are able to better convey all the drama in singers voices. It just that they sometime lose the grip when things get more dynamic. I think Polk designers wanted to address it but may have overdone it in the process. Arias stand perfectly in the middle with Q950 and L600 at two extremes.

Top end is where L600s truly shine. They have better resolution and transparency than Arias. I could hear some background details that other three speaker pairs failed to present. At around 4m20s into "You and Your Friend" by Dire Straits, there is some metal rubbing noise from one of the instruments. It is clearly audible with L600s. I couldn't hear that even with Arias. The tweeter in L600 gives out excellent details and resolution. High notes sound quite nice with no hint of harshness, yet is lot more revealing. Overall it is better than Arias but instruments sound a touch more sweeter with the latter.

I know I am not comparing speakers in the same price bracket but overall L600s sound much more detailed, nuanced and musical than Q950s. It's their flawed vocal presentation that prevents me from signing up for them. Unlike SVS, they are also lot cheaper than their US prices at slightly less than Rs.2L (2.25L MRP). They cost about 4000USD in US. SVS costs 1650USD but in India it retails at Rs.2.25L MRP.

I decided not to buy anything without audition after seeing how the perception of good sound differs between individuals. So that excludes both Quad S5 and Evo 4.4 as I couldn't get a demo. I did the blind buy with Aria 926 and I guess I got lucky. I intend to audition SVS Pinnacle, Opticon 8 and Revel F36 next week. I don't know where to find Opticon 8 and Revel F36 on demo in Bangalore. Please do let me know if anyone know the place.

I might get another pair of Aria 926 or 936 if nothing else excites me below 2L budget.
 
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I might get another pair of Aria 926 or 936 if nothing else excites me below 2L budget.

Since you have a decent budget, I'm sure you'll find something that excites you. Considering the differences that you perceived in the presentation, i guess it depends a lot on the amp that you're pairing it with also. I'd got myself a Denon x2400H for a short while before either of my Marantz amps and the KEFs did not sound good on them. Also, if a speaker sounds bright, a trick to make it smoother is to reduce toe-in as much as possible without collapsing the soundstage. But you might genuinely want to try out the R3, you owe it to yourself since you're already going through so much trouble :)

I got a pair of mission QX2s for a family member yesterday simply because they're so well reviewed (and i get to enjoy them when i visit my hometown ;)), the reason being that its something new to experience. Your philosophy may differ of course but insofar as I'm concerned, life is too short to stick with the familiar.
 
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I got a pair of mission QX2s for a family member yesterday simply because they're so well reviewed (and i get to enjoy them when i visit my hometown ;)), the reason being that its something new to experience. Your philosophy may differ of course but insofar as I'm concerned, life is too short to stick with the familiar.
I do intend to get something new but not with too much compromise. I do like L600s, their top end is too delicious to ignore. Much more livelier and transparent than Arias. Maybe a better Amp can improve the vocal presentation.
 
I do intend to get something new but not with too much compromise. I do like L600s, their top end is too delicious to ignore. Much more livelier and transparent than Arias. Maybe a better Amp can improve the vocal presentation.
Music playback won't be ideal with a receiver. Even my humble PM6006 is better at music than my SR6O13 which is substantially more expensive. Try a price appropriate integrated or pre power combo to do justice to your auditions.
Also, There are a lot of tweaks that can be made to adjust the presentation though it may not be possible to try everything at the dealers.
 
Try a price appropriate integrated or pre power combo to do justice to your auditions.
Can't do much about the DAC/Amp at the auditions. I have to go with what they have. Do you carry your gear when you go for speaker auditions?

I intend to get a good DAC (Topping D90/ RME ADI2 FS/Chord Qutest) with Allo USBridge based streamer for the Focals. Any suggestions for the Amp?
 
Can't do much about the DAC/Amp at the auditions. I have to go with what they have. Do you carry your gear when you go for speaker auditions?

I intend to get a good DAC (Topping D90/ RME ADI2 FS/Chord Qutest) with Allo USBridge based streamer for the Focals. Any suggestions for the Amp?
Don't know much about amps as i haven't experienced many and I'd be remiss if i recommended something without having heard it first. But why not try a pre power combo or only a power amp for now since you've already got integrateds with front pre outs?

Another question we might want to ask FMs is whether there are any disadvantage of using DACs connected directly to power amps?

Also, I had never thought about carrying my amp in the past and truth be told, there's no point carrying them either as i would imagine just about anything that the dealer would be carrying would be better than mine. However, i did carry my DAC along since it was portable enough.

I do intend to carry my speakers though. Since i was planning to get an amp, i was in touch with 2 dealers in Delhi and they asked me to get my speakers along. However, since they didn't have the amps on audition and were offering the demos on their AVRs o_O, i saw no point whatsoever in making the trip.
 
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<snip>
Another question we might want to ask FMs is whether there any disadvantage of using DACs connected directly to power amps?
<snip>

For casual listening a DAC with volume control is fine. One less component and connect directly to poweramp.
I'm personally not convinced about volume control in digital domain; prefer a good old analog pot.
It does something to the overall SQ. If the DAC/pre has a proper physical knob it is fine.
If it is app controlled, slider type, please be careful going directly to poweramp.
An accidental longer swipe can blow your eardrums.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
I went to ProFx this weekend for round 2 of Q950 audition. I also listened to Polk Legend L600 quite a bit. Sorry for the long post.

I used BubbleUPnP on my Android phone to stream from Qobuz to Denon 4500h receiver over UPnP. Some of the tracks I played are,
Keith Don't Go by Nils Lofgren
You and Your Friend bt Dire Straits
The Joke by Brandi Carlile
Hey Now by London Grammar
You want It Darker by Leonard Cohen
Wonderful Life by Katie Melua
The Sound of Silence by Disturbed
Hotel Califonia 2013 Remaster by Eagles
With All My Love by Melaine De Biasio
Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua
A Thousand Kisses Deep by Leonard Cohen
Liquid Spirit by Gregory Porter
Lovesong by Adele

Impressions of Q950:
Nothing much changed from my impressions from the audition last week with Denon PMA Stereo Receiver.
Good bass. I felt the bass was too much last time. But it seemed okay this time, in fact almost perfect. The track "Hey Now" has lot of sub-bass, the whole listening room was shaking and rattling. I could feel the vibrations on the floor, the couch, my whole body and everything else present in the room. I even got up and checked if the SVS sub that was present in the room was on. It was bloody good. But everything else was a let down except the soundstage.

The soundstage is quite good. I felt it was kind of narrow last time but not this time. Q950s present an enveloping and forward soundstage. But imaging wasn't that great, I could hear individual instruments clearly but couldn't locate their precise positions in the sound field. Polk S60s with Pioneer Elite Receiver present a much better imaging.

Midrange and vocals have a forward presentation. Vocals seem to take center-stage and they lose the finesse in the process.

The biggest disappointment was actually in high frequencies. It simply lacks the resolution, details, liveliness and musicality of even Polk S60s. S60's top end do sound slightly brighter but they convey lot more detail and resolution and sound more livelier. Comparison with Arias is not even worth discussing.

Overall Q950s come across as bright speakers due to their somewhat ill defined treble and forward presentation of vocals. I may actually pick Polk S60s over Q950s despite Polk's slightly brighter overall presentation. S60s sound much more musical for most part and vocals retain the originality of the singers voices. I am not sure to what extent Denon to be blamed here. It sounds like a bright speaker paired with a bright sounding receiver. I have a strong feeling that Q950s may sound a lot better with a warm Amplifier/DAC combo. Q950s are not for me. I am fully convinced that KEF's sound signature is not for me, I didn't even bother to ask for a demo of R3 that was in the room.

Polk Legend L600:
The speaker stands taller at about 48 inches with real wood veneer. The front fascia doesn't look that premium but feels solid and well built.

The soundstage is good but not as enveloping as Q950s, almost same as Aria 926 though. Imaging is better than Q950s. I could locate positions of different instruments in the sound field.

Low end is pretty good, almost as good as Q950s. The bass response for "Hey Now" track was quite good but I felt less of it on my body, the couch and the floor compared to Q950. The audible bass response was almost the same though. The impression is the same for most tracks. Q950s have stronger bass response but I liked the L600's bass response better, it was present but not intrusive.

Midrange and vocals is where Q950 and L600 were poles apart. L600s have somewhat recessed vocal presentation. It felt as if vocal frequencies were put through a filter and all dynamic swings filtered out. Vocals felt lifeless, flat, thin and distant sounding. Some of the tracks, from female singers, like Lovesong by Adele and Nine Million Bicycles by Katie Melua lacked that intimacy and seductiveness. "The Joke" failed to present the upswings in Brandi Carlile's voice. The dramatic buildup in "The Sound of Silence" was missing. Even the track "Wonderful Life" by Katie Melua failed to convey the melodiousness of the overall presentation. The track "Liquid Spirit" lacked the rhythm. But overall it still felt more musical and listenable than the forward sounding Q950s. The sad part is even L600's poorer sibling S60s have better vocals. They are able to better convey all the drama in singers voices. It just that they sometime lose the grip when things get more dynamic. I think Polk designers wanted to address it but may have overdone it in the process. Arias stand perfectly in the middle with Q950 and L600 at two extremes.

Top end is where L600s truly shine. They have better resolution and transparency than Arias. I could hear some background details that other three speaker pairs failed to present. At around 4m20s into "You and Your Friend" by Dire Straits, there is some metal rubbing noise from one of the instruments. It is clearly audible with L600s. I couldn't hear that even with Arias. The tweeter in L600 gives out excellent details and resolution. High notes sound quite nice with no hint of harshness, yet is lot more revealing. Overall it is better than Arias but instruments sound a touch more sweeter with the latter.

I know I am not comparing speakers in the same price bracket but overall L600s sound much more detailed, nuanced and musical than Q950s. It's their flawed vocal presentation that prevents me from signing up for them. Unlike SVS, they are also lot cheaper than their US prices at slightly less than Rs.2L (2.25L MRP). They cost about 4000USD in US. SVS costs 1650USD but in India it retails at Rs.2.25L MRP.

I decided not to buy anything without audition after seeing how the perception of good sound differs between individuals. So that excludes both Quad S5 and Evo 4.4 as I couldn't get a demo. I did the blind buy with Aria 926 and I guess I got lucky. I intend to audition SVS Pinnacle, Opticon 8 and Revel F36 next week. I don't know where to find Opticon 8 and Revel F36 on demo in Bangalore. Please do let me know if anyone know the place.

I might get another pair of Aria 926 or 936 if nothing else excites me below 2L budget.

Could you elaborate on choice of songs and what you look for in each in particular?
 
Thanks. An insightful read into the design approach behind one of the most affordable and accessible range of speakers for many of us. This paragraph is quite telling:

“For Comeau, such people are not asking the right questions. “They’re not looking at the loudspeaker as a music reproducer, they’re looking at it as some technical device. I’ve seen people come into our research department and they start playing around with some technical problem, and they start trying to ‘correct’ that with DSP, for example. That’s where things go wrong in active loudspeakers – people think, “at last, I’ve got full control therefore I can correct everything. A lot of this approach to acoustic design comes down to whether you’re a theoretician, or a craftsman. My feeling is that the craftsman approach gives the greatest benefits of yielding an enjoyable musical performance at the end of the day.”

I wish he had also said a few words on the other IAG brands, like Castle - my speakers and Mission.
I recently got a pair of Missions QX2s for a family friend who was suffering from COVID and confined to his room. I thought it was the perfect time to get him hooked ;) . i do hope they don't disappoint. It was a blind purchase but the price was too good to ignore and considering how well reviewed they are, it was worth a shot.

Can't wait to check them out.

Now only if a COVID vaccine comes out soon so that i can make the trip. :confused:
 
I'm have opticon 8 paired with a Nad c388 - simply mind-blowing. My listening space is very similar to yours and the opticon's fill it with big, clear sound, even at a modest 40% volume. You won't need a separate sub either. The only reason why it doesn't have 5 star reviews is because they are compared with analytical speakers, which these are not. They are quite neutral in the sound signature though, which means that you can, to a certain degree, control what kind of sound you like/want by pairing them with the appropriate power amp and wires.
 
I'm have opticon 8 paired with a Nad c388 - simply mind-blowing. My listening space is very similar to yours and the opticon's fill it with big, clear sound, even at a modest 40% volume. You won't need a separate sub either. The only reason why it doesn't have 5 star reviews is because they are compared with analytical speakers, which these are not. They are quite neutral in the sound signature though, which means that you can, to a certain degree, control what kind of sound you like/want by pairing them with the appropriate power amp and wires.
I was planning go get a nad power amp but without ever having auditioned it. Since your experience with its integrated has been good, i guess i shouldn’t go wrong with a NAD.
 
I'm have opticon 8 paired with a Nad c388 - simply mind-blowing. My listening space is very similar to yours and the opticon's fill it with big, clear sound, even at a modest 40% volume. You won't need a separate sub either. The only reason why it doesn't have 5 star reviews is because they are compared with analytical speakers, which these are not. They are quite neutral in the sound signature though, which means that you can, to a certain degree, control what kind of sound you like/want by pairing them with the appropriate power amp and wires.
I have a soft corner for Opticon 8s. Based on what read I beleive thier sound signature would suit my taste. I like speakers that have livelier sound without being bright. I dont listen to audiophile recordings. I definitely plan to audition them before I buy anything.
 
I have a soft corner for Opticon 8s. Based on what read I beleive thier sound signature would suit my taste. I like speakers that have livelier sound without being bright. I dont listen to audiophile recordings. I definitely plan to audition them before I buy anything.
If you're in Delhi, I'll be more than happy to give you a demo..
 
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