Need help with USB DAC - WASAPI setting in Foobar2000...

[elangoas]

My friend had picked up the Encore MDac (mDAC) for $65 from Amazon. So i borrowed that for a few days for first hand experience..

Per the specs, it is Asynchronous USB DAC, but limited to 96/24.. So i guess no drivers required for windows...

I have Installed Foobar 2000 v1.3.8 on my Laptop, configured the default playback device as (mDAC Async - as shown in windows speaker icon). The 3.5mm output of the DAC is connected to RCA inputs of my AVR..

I installed WASAPI plugin for Foobar2000.. I could see both WASAPI Event & WASAPI Push under "devices" in Foobar...

If i select WASAPI Push mode, am able to get output...

If i select WASAPI Event mode, am not getting any output..

I even tried with Kodi (v15.1 - Isengard), I was able to select WASAPI SPDIF interface (mDAC-Async), am able to get output...

Any insights on why am not able to get output from foobar in Event mode? Am i missing any settings here ?

Moreover In the windows speaker icon, when i click on mDAC properties, I don't see 24 bit capable on the list.. It defaults to 16 bit and a max of 96 Khz sampling...

Appreciate your inputs...

 

[sound_cycle]

If i select WASAPI Push mode, am able to get output...

If i select WASAPI Event mode, am not getting any output..

Moreover In the windows speaker icon, when i click on mDAC properties, I don't see 24 bit capable on the list.. It defaults to 16 bit and a max of 96 Khz sampling...

While I don't know why event does not get you an output while push does, it probably does not matter because they deliver the same audio data. AFAIK Event requires hardware that is capable of using (ie. "pulling") the data.

What have set the SPDIF properties to (settings > control panel > advanced sound settings > properties). Are you able to generate a test tone with 24/ 96 there ?

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

While I don't know why event does not get you an output while push does, it probably does not matter because they deliver the same audio data. AFAIK Event requires hardware that is capable of using (ie. "pulling") the data.

What have set the SPDIF properties to (settings > control panel > advanced sound settings > properties). Are you able to generate a test tone with 24/ 96 there ?

ciao
gr

I have an HTPC @ home which is connected to AVR, Via HDMI - WASAPI Event.. Am able to swap Event & push modes there & it just works fine..

Am not getting in to any debate as i fairly understand this... But from my general reading on the net, Event mode is supposed to be better than Push mode...

In Advanced sound settings, it shows only 16 bit & 96Khz.. That is strange....

 

[sound_cycle]

Am not getting in to any debate as i fairly understand this... But from my general reading on the net, Event mode is supposed to be better than Push mode...

In Advanced sound settings, it shows only 16 bit & 96Khz.. That is strange....

The Well-Tempered Computer

what your sound card will not do etc.

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

The Well-Tempered Computer

what your sound card will not do etc.

ciao
gr

Yes.. I have referred to this link for better understanding...

I think Kodi also does WASAPI event mode by default.... While it works in one media player, it doesn't work on Foobar....

I was doubting if the DAC was faulty one...

 

[sound_cycle]

Am not getting in to any debate as i fairly understand this... But from my general reading on the net, Event mode is supposed to be better than Push mode...

Yes.. I have referred to this link for better understanding...

I think Kodi also does WASAPI event mode by default.... While it works in one media player, it doesn't work on Foobar....

The Well tempered computer linky i posted says clearly

WASAPI - Event Style
The output mode lets a sound device pull data from Media Center. This method is not supported by all hardware, but is recommended when supported.
WASAPI is a low latency interface to the driver of the audio device.
Bypassing the mixer is all what it does.
​

Note it does not list any ***sonic*** advantage

I did think differently at one point in time.

Am I seriously misunderstanding something ? Let me quote another source - a DAC manufacturers document.

https://emotiva.com/resources/updates/Configuring_WASAPI_Mode_in_Audio_Players.pdf

WASAPI is a Windows interface mode WASAPI mode is part
of Windows, and theres no need to install it or turn it on, but WASAPI mode can ONLY be used by player programs specifically designed to use it, and each such program must be individually configured to do so.

Some players differentiate between WASAPI EVENT and WASAPI PUSH modes​

That link I posted earlier also says:

A couple of asynchronous USB DACs had all kind of problems using push mode due to buffer problems in WASAPI.This has been solved by using WASAPI Event style. The audio device pulls the data from the system.The applications sending sound to the mixer must see to it that the sample rate matches the default rate of the mixer. This default is set in the Advanced tab of the audio panel.​

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

Thanx buddy...That helps in understanding it better...

Am surprised a standalone DAC doesn't support WASAPI Event, where as AVR DAC accepts it...

So there is no sonic benefit of Event vs Push ?

"A couple of asynchronous USB DACs had all kind of problems using push mode due to buffer problems in WASAPI"

I get this point.. But this USB DAC is reverse.. It supports Push mode whereas it doesn't support Event..hyeah:

 

[Subha15011976]

My friend had picked up the Encore MDac (mDAC) for $65 from Amazon. So i borrowed that for a few days for first hand experience..

Per the specs, it is Asynchronous USB DAC, but limited to 96/24.. So i guess no drivers required for windows...

I have Installed Foobar 2000 v1.3.8 on my Laptop, configured the default playback device as (mDAC Async - as shown in windows speaker icon). The 3.5mm output of the DAC is connected to RCA inputs of my AVR..

I installed WASAPI plugin for Foobar2000.. I could see both WASAPI Event & WASAPI Push under "devices" in Foobar...

If i select WASAPI Push mode, am able to get output...

If i select WASAPI Event mode, am not getting any output..

I even tried with Kodi (v15.1 - Isengard), I was able to select WASAPI SPDIF interface (mDAC-Async), am able to get output...

Any insights on why am not able to get output from foobar in Event mode? Am i missing any settings here ?

Moreover In the windows speaker icon, when i click on mDAC properties, I don't see 24 bit capable on the list.. It defaults to 16 bit and a max of 96 Khz sampling...

Appreciate your inputs...

Are you using pure 2.0 USB cable? Make it sure and use only USB 2.0 port of your Laptop or PC. Why don't you use ASIO of your DAC? Just instal ASIO DSP for Foober 2000 (foo_out_asio ver 2.1.2) and select it your default output for Foober. It is way better than WASAPI because it bypass windows audio processing.

 

[sound_cycle]

It is way better than WASAPI because it bypass windows audio processing.

So what does the native windows thing ie WASAPI do ?

Why ? ANY difference you hear will be driver related and nothing else.

DRC software take their sound rather seriously. They clearly state that there is no benefit to using ASIO over WASAPI.

As always, glad to be proved wrong and learn something new. Can you substantiate this " way better than WASAPI" you claim.

ciao
gr

 

[Jith77]

Yes.. I have referred to this link for better understanding...

I think Kodi also does WASAPI event mode by default.... While it works in one media player, it doesn't work on Foobar....

I was doubting if the DAC was faulty one...

Kodi uses directsound as default, atleast in my case it was so. one has to select wasapi in settings.

And in case kodi works with wasapi, why use foobar. Is there any advantage

 

[elangoas]

Are you using pure 2.0 USB cable? Make it sure and use only USB 2.0 port of your Laptop or PC. Why don't you use ASIO of your DAC? Just instal ASIO DSP for Foober 2000 (foo_out_asio ver 2.1.2) and select it your default output for Foober. It is way better than WASAPI because it bypass windows audio processing.

Nope.. I have been using the standard USB to Micro USB cable that come with mobiles... I think all ports on Laptop atleast are USB 2.0..

Yes i installed ASIO plugin too.. But don't find them under "Playback ->Output" in Foobar2000..

 

[elangoas]

Kodi uses directsound as default, atleast in my case it was so. one has to select wasapi in settings.

And in case kodi works with wasapi, why use foobar. Is there any advantage

Right.. I selected WASAPI in Kodi... Since Kodi uses only WASAPI Event mode, wanted to try it for test purpose...

Most of the time, my friend would be using this DAC to listen to music only, hence foobar. He is no enthusiast... But anyways i would suggest use Kodi too alternatively...

Am kind of puzzled that it works in one media player and the same setting doesn't work in another...

 

[Subha15011976]

Nope.. I have been using the standard USB to Micro USB cable that come with mobiles... I think all ports on Laptop atleast are USB 2.0..

Yes i installed ASIO plugin too.. But don't find them under "Playback ->Output" in Foobar2000..

I am using Schiit Modi2 DAC and it had been clearly mentioned that to use only usb2.0 cable for this DAC. No USB 3.0 cable or port to be used. Because these type of DACs take power from your Laptop or PC through USB cable and USB 2.0 cable render adequate DC power for this DAC.

I think you need to install driver software for this DAC. If software is not available then you can try with 'ASIO4ALL' software.

You can alternatively use 'Kernel Streaming Output' in Foober. Just instal 'foo_out_ks' ver 1.2.2 DSP. It is also a better soluation than WASAPI. Try it.

 

[elangoas]

I am using Schiit Modi2 DAC and it had been clearly mentioned that to use only usb2.0 cable for this DAC. No USB 3.0 cable or port to be used. Because these type of DACs take power from your Laptop or PC through USB cable and USB 2.0 cable render adequate DC power for this DAC.

I think you need to install driver software for this DAC. If software is not available then you can try with 'ASIO4ALL' software.

You can alternatively use 'Kernel Streaming Output' in Foober. Just instal 'foo_out_ks' ver 1.2.2 DSP. It is also a better soluation than WASAPI. Try it.

Ok.. Understand the requirements... But in general the standard cable that comes with mobiles for data sync are USB 2.0 i guess... This cable is from a mobile which i bought recently...

Since this USB DAC supports a Max of 24/96, there were no drivers required for windows as it was plug & play.. Only deives that support 24/192 need driver with windows i guess...

I installed ASIO output... But could find it listed under "Playback ->Output" in Foobar2000.... Any pointers on how get it displayed under this option?

Will try Kernel streaming plugin too...

 

[Subha15011976]

Ok.. Understand the requirements... But in general the standard cable that comes with mobiles for data sync are USB 2.0 i guess... This cable is from a mobile which i bought recently...

.... Only deives that support 24/192 need driver with windows i guess...

Ok. but in my case I am not able to get ASIO output support in Foober until and unless I have installed MODI 2 driver from Schiit Audio website. I think ASIO output support comes with it's driver alongwith 24/192 option.

 

[sound_cycle]

You can alternatively use 'Kernel Streaming Output' in Foober. Just instal 'foo_out_ks' ver 1.2.2 DSP. It is also a better soluation than WASAPI. Try it.

<deleted>

ciao
gr

 

[elangoas]

<deleted>

ciao
gr

@sound_cycle, so ASIO Vs Kernel Streaming Vs WASAPI do the samejob of bypassing windows audio processing ?

 

[sound_cycle]

@sound_cycle, so ASIO Vs Kernel Streaming Vs WASAPI do the samejob of bypassing windows audio processing ?

Yes. All are hardware direct.

There is no inherent sonic advantage of any one over the other(s). Several years ago (win NT) ASIO was better - because of Windows audio issues, - but not today, win7/ 10 WASAPI works just fine.

As to that usb3 vs 2 "issue", the schiit website says "2m or less in length, USB 2.0-rated, non-audiophile type", if one has that DAC not discovered type problem and that because audiophile USB cables they say cannot support USB 2, I must confess I have no idea what that pure USB 2.0 cable and am probably not worthy of possessing one. BTW "I think ASIO output support comes with it's driver alongwith 24/192 option" is not quite right. ASIO will not magically confer any 24/192 properties to foobar as the poster incorrectly implies. I *guess* he is probably making generalizations based on his specific system which is setup in a way where his observations are true, for him

ciao
gr

 

[Seabees]

Hello everyone
Currently I am using my laptop as the main source (320mp3/flacs) running Foobar configured for wasapi (event). Using Modi Uber 2 feeding directly to Denon AVR via CD in. The issue is when switched to direct/pure direct mode the sound goes flat/muffled. Possible reasons for this?
Another doubt is about the compatibility of the DAC & AVR. The specs says for DAC max output is 1.5 V rms and output impedance is 75ohm while the input sensitivity of the AVR is 200mV/47kohms. Is it OK to feed AVR directly from DAC or do I need a preamp in between?

 

[elangoas]

Hello everyone
Currently I am using my laptop as the main source (320mp3/flacs) running Foobar configured for wasapi (event). Using Modi Uber 2 feeding directly to Denon AVR via CD in. The issue is when switched to direct/pure direct mode the sound goes flat/muffled. Possible reasons for this?

Direct/pure mode siwtches off video circuits & plays the content without any additional processing... (as close to the source)..

320 Kbps will sound a little lifeless than FLAC/WAV in puredirect mode..

Another doubt is about the compatibility of the DAC & AVR. The specs says for DAC max output is 1.5 V rms and output impedance is 75ohm while the input sensitivity of the AVR is 200mV/47kohms. Is it OK to feed AVR directly from DAC or do I need a preamp in between?

Not very sure what input sensitivity of the AVR is.. But i guess even analogue output from CD/DVD player is about the same output...