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need some help in selection of turntables

Wharfedale EVO4.1 Bookshelf Speakers

madjack

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May 12, 2008
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Hi Friends,
This is my first time entry into turntables.
I met someone who has these 4 models of players
  1. Technics TT- SLQD22
  2. Philips AF734
  3. Akai Bush AP M10
  4. Akai APA2

Now the first 2 are direct drive and the lower two are belt drive.
Technics has a quartz controller for the speed, the guy says it ensure that the player constantly maintains the same speed. (I didnt know it changes speed)
So which should I buy?
All range from 3 -5 k. Technics is for 5k, will negotiate.
Whats the diff between belt and direct?
And what s the diff between cheaper options available on the net from Gemini and Ion for DJs? aren't they good? they are for 100 $. So would that be a good option or these?
The guy also said that he could for extra cost fit a grado cartridge and give me on the technics.
Rs. 1800 for a circuit to convert from a phono stage to regular output connectors.

So what does the forum advice?

Thanks..
 

rajan2008

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Dec 15, 2008
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Cochin
Hi,

Quite interesting to note that people are still using turn tables. I used to have a Technics Turntable back in the 90's. My brother brother brought it from Germany. It had a stobe on it. It was an excellent product and it was paired with Technics amp and speakers and the sound was excellent.

I have no idea on the other models. You will not go wrong with Technics.

Thanks

Rajendran Menon
 

grubyhalo

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Depends...
Provided I don't have any option other than the 4 listed AND if I'm sure all the 4 are in reasonably good condition, I'd go with the Technics. If I'm buying new, I'd stay clear of all the Geminis, Ions and Numarks and go for an SL...
 

rsud

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
161
Points
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Location
USA
Hi Friends,
This is my first time entry into turntables.
I met someone who has these 4 models of players
  1. Technics TT- SLQD22
  2. Philips AF734
  3. Akai Bush AP M10
  4. Akai APA2

Now the first 2 are direct drive and the lower two are belt drive.
Technics has a quartz controller for the speed, the guy says it ensure that the player constantly maintains the same speed. (I didnt know it changes speed)
So which should I buy?
All range from 3 -5 k. Technics is for 5k, will negotiate.
Whats the diff between belt and direct?
And what s the diff between cheaper options available on the net from Gemini and Ion for DJs? aren't they good? they are for 100 $. So would that be a good option or these?
The guy also said that he could for extra cost fit a grado cartridge and give me on the technics.
Rs. 1800 for a circuit to convert from a phono stage to regular output connectors.

So what does the forum advice?

Thanks..

None of them.

These are all compromised and not even engineered properly. Each one of them has taken shortcuts and the arm geometry is not correct. Basically if the turntable base is square then the manufacturer has taken shortcuts.

If you are serious about good sound and not following the illiterate "specs" herd (specs are meaningless) then do yourself a favor and start with a good entry level high end turntable. I recommend Rega p1 or p2 because I have heard them. There are a few others. Try Audio Advisor for a US based source at least to see what is out there.

Additionally, don't be suckered in by the "millions of DJs" line. DJs, as a group DJs have no concept of what sounds good. Most probably got the turntable free as a promotion or are themselves following the herd of their peers who they think know something. Bottom line, the technics turntable is crap.

This is assuming that your primary criteria is the best sound possible. If glitz or fitting in is your primary criteria feel free to ignore me.
 
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grubyhalo

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Depends...
Additionally, don't be suckered in by the "millions of DJs" line. DJs, as a group DJs have no concept of what sounds good. Most probably got the turntable free as a promotion...

The most arrogant and ignorant post I've read on the forum. Do you know for a fact that most of the TT's are just handed out to DJ's?

...or are themselves following the herd of their peers who they think know something...

I suspect this is exactly what you're doing...
 

rsud

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The most arrogant and ignorant post I've read on the forum. Do you know for a fact that most of the TT's are just handed out to DJ's?

Yes I do, it happens all the time.
Now lets check your arrogance and ignorance. You don't know the answer but accuse me. Hmmm....

I suspect this is exactly what you're doing...

ahh.. what exactly do you know? Not much I suspect and very sorry that you can't tell the difference.
 

grubyhalo

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ahh.. what exactly do you know? Not much I suspect and very sorry that you can't tell the difference.

And this is not arrogance? :eek:hyeah: Sorry I'm not going to bother replying to you anymore or waste my time proving to you anything...
 

madjack

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May 12, 2008
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the help. I have bought myself a project debut III from UK. Since this was the best one that fitted my budget. Though if I could extend my budget, I would have gone for a technics SL 1200 Mk II. But this was the next best option. Going ahead, after I understand this better, I will try experiment with the Rega tone arm on the project debut model.

Cheers
 

gobble

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None of them.

These are all compromised and not even engineered properly. Each one of them has taken shortcuts and the arm geometry is not correct. Basically if the turntable base is square then the manufacturer has taken shortcuts.

Hmm I had a Garrard in my childhood that had a square base. Don't think it was a shortcut design. Whats the physics behind it?

Regards
 

madjack

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gobble..you just reminded me..even I would like to know how the shape makes a difference..since my player is a square..
 

rsud

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Hmm I had a Garrard in my childhood that had a square base. Don't think it was a shortcut design. Whats the physics behind it?

Regards

Not physics, geometry.

For a pivot arm to take the most linear path across the record requires that the arm pivot point be further away from the spindle. Turntables designed for good sound will be rectangular so the arm pivot can be further away (and the arm will be longer).

The closer the pivot point is to the platter spindle (and hence the shorter the arm) the more error you will have on cartridge alignment as it sweeps in an arc across the record. When you setup your arm and cartridge you will align your cartridge at some point along the arc across the record. At all other points across the arc the cartridge alignment will be off. Where the pivot is will determine how much error there is. Because the arc is greater the closer the pivot is to the spindle the greater the alignment error. Why mass market turntable manufactures can't take advantage of simple geometry and move the pivot point further away is beyond me. I can only assume it is a cost cutting measure. Good high-end entry level turntables can be had for starting around $400 USA so unless you simply can't afford it there is no reason to buy mass market 'lack of design' crap.

The solution for the arm and alignment error is a linear tracking arm. Linear tracking arms are expensive to do right and are usually owned by audiophile nuts (of which I am one and own one).

On other fronts, direct drive is also a crappy way to do a turntable because of motor vibration that will transmit to the platter and your record and into your cartridge. Quartz lock makes it even worse because the motor is continuously adjusting its speed making for even more motor vibration.

So when a turntable manufacturer gives you the trifecta of a short arm for greatest alignment error across the record, direct drive so you can have motor vibration, and then quartz lock so you can have even more motor vibration I can hardly think there is any thought to the sound quality of the product. Rather just marketing gimicks for an illiterate mass public already goaded to buy into it.
 
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stevieboy

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'millions of dj's using it' is certainly not a valid argument UNLESS you're a DJ yourself and are going to use it for DJing purposes. those planning on buying a tt even entry level please do some research into the various types and above all listen to these types before jumping to a choice. rsud certainly makes some valid points to consider if a direct drive is what you're looking at.

madjack,

if i remember right the project debut is not square but rectangular? its a good player i've heard it. in my opinion a step up would be a turntable that has a better plinth designed to reduce vibration reaching the platter, a better tonearm - carbon fibre from project itself. you can up the performance of the debut by making a sandbox for it. a simple box the size of the tt base, fill it with sand, put a plywood sheet or wood on top of the sand leaving half a cm gap all around so it does not touch the side of the box and place the tt on this.

regards
 

flanker.r

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Not physics, geometry.

For a pivot arm to take the most linear path across the record requires that the arm pivot point be further away from the spindle. Turntables designed for good sound will be rectangular so the arm pivot can be further away (and the arm will be longer).

The closer the pivot point is to the platter spindle (and hence the shorter the arm) the more error you will have on cartridge alignment as it sweeps in an arc across the record. When you setup your arm and cartridge you will align your cartridge at some point along the arc across the record. At all other points across the arc the cartridge alignment will be off. Where the pivot is will determine how much error there is. Because the arc is greater the closer the pivot is to the spindle the greater the alignment error. Why mass market turntable manufactures can't take advantage of simple geometry and move the pivot point further away is beyond me. I can only assume it is a cost cutting measure. Good high-end entry level turntables can be had for starting around $400 USA so unless you simply can't afford it there is no reason to buy mass market 'lack of design' crap.

The solution for the arm and alignment error is a linear tracking arm. Linear tracking arms are expensive to do right and are usually owned by audiophile nuts (of which I am one and own one).

On other fronts, direct drive is also a crappy way to do a turntable because of motor vibration that will transmit to the platter and your record and into your cartridge. Quartz lock makes it even worse because the motor is continuously adjusting its speed making for even more motor vibration.

So when a turntable manufacturer gives you the trifecta of a short arm for greatest alignment error across the record, direct drive so you can have motor vibration, and then quartz lock so you can have even more motor vibration I can hardly think there is any thought to the sound quality of the product. Rather just marketing gimicks for an illiterate mass public already goaded to buy into it.

sorry, I see that you have already explained.

But it is still possible to have a square base and have a tone arm that is long enough to 'sweep the arc' and have the pivot point at a further diatance. So dont you think that saying all TTs with square base are wrongly designed is too much of a generalization

I completely agree that linear tracking is the way to go if you want perfect tracking. After all if records are cut that way, it makes sense to play them that way!
 

rsud

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sorry, I see that you have already explained.

But it is still possible to have a square base and have a tone arm that is long enough to 'sweep the arc' and have the pivot point at a further diatance. So dont you think that saying all TTs with square base are wrongly designed is too much of a generalization

I completely agree that linear tracking is the way to go if you want perfect tracking. After all if records are cut that way, it makes sense to play them that way!

Yes, if its a big oversized square then there is room for the arm pivot point to be further away. But this oversized square would be a waste of material and be excessively large in size. Making it rectangular achives whats needed.

Every mass market turntable I have seen with a square base has the arm pivot point nudged up right at the edge of the platter.
 

mridulgoel

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Hey Guyz

Need a help...

I need a Phono Turntable, just the electric version, of the past hand rotated ones...
Obviously a secondhand system, but should be good and in working conditions...

and one i need is the hand held version of the phono turntable...

kindly help...
 
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