New Denon receivers announced!

[ktks1]

Denon | Premium AV Receivers, Wireless Speakers & Headphones

Experience a century of innovation with Denon. Explore AV receivers, speakers, headphones and systems for home theater and hi-fi sound. Shop online today.

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2700H, 3700H, 4700H, and 6700H announced with 8K 60Hz / 4k 120 Hz capabilities, pre-amp mode (the new name for pre-outs?), variable refresh rate support and low latency modes, announced today.

Looks like 3700H is going to be the sweet deal here too.

 

[Love4sound]

Denon | Premium AV Receivers, Wireless Speakers & Headphones

Experience a century of innovation with Denon. Explore AV receivers, speakers, headphones and systems for home theater and hi-fi sound. Shop online today.

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2700H, 3700H, 4700H, and 6700H announced with 8K 60Hz / 4k 120 Hz capabilities, pre-amp mode (the new name for pre-outs?)

No pre-amp mode is not the new name for pre-outs. Current avrs when adding a PA does not shut down the amplifier circuit. So the avr remains running hot as as driving the speakers using avr alone. But with the pre-amp mode the amplifier section is disconnected in the Avr

 

[ktks1]

No pre-amp mode is not the new name for pre-outs. Current avrs when adding a PA does not shut down the amplifier circuit. So the avr remains running hot as as driving the speakers using avr alone. But with the pre-amp mode the amplifier section is disconnected in the Avr

Oh okay. Then, preamp mode will be a disadvantage to those who wish to have external power only to two or three channels right?

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

No pre-amp mode is not the new name for pre-outs. Current avrs when adding a PA does not shut down the amplifier circuit. So the avr remains running hot as as driving the speakers using avr alone. But with the pre-amp mode the amplifier section is disconnected in the Avr

Unless it’s class A, the avr gets hot not just for the reason the power amp is on, but the power amp is badly designed to produce heat even when it’s not “amplifying” anything. A class AB design should not produce much heat unless the speaker is driven loud.

avr is a bad place for a power amp to sit! Loads of components like processor chips display drivers video processors all produce heat to have a cumulative heating effect in the past there were some avrs which supported manual turn off of video processors when not needed. Depending on how clever it was implemented it was a hit or miss option.

 

[insane79]

Oh okay. Then, preamp mode will be a disadvantage to those who wish to have external power only to two or three channels right?

No, its automatically turns off only the amplifiers of the channels that are used in the pre outs.

 

[Love4sound]

Oh okay. Then, preamp mode will be a disadvantage to those who wish to have external power only to two or three channels right?

No it’s not a disadvantage. Still there is no clarity how they have designed it. In the amp selection section we need to check once the avr is out. Definitely techno dad, the HT dude and other known you tubers will update a video soon.My guess is we can chose the channels in the avr to use the amplifier section or shut down all channels

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

No, its automatically turns off only the amplifiers of the channels that are used in the pre outs.

Depends on implementation. Just connect the speaker cable to the speaker terminal of the avr when the so called pre out mode is activated to see how it’s implemented. Depending on the quality of pre amp section it may or may not have an impact in the sound quality. Unless we meaure it , we can’t really say, whether a power amp turned on or off have an effect. Anyway this is silly thing to worry about. For any critical audio listening the pre out from an av receiver isn’t the best place. So it’s wise to see this as an advantage to have an option to use the same speakers on a stereo setup and home theatre setup without disconnecting and reconnecting to the amps.

 

[ktks1]

So it’s wise to see this as an advantage to have an option to use the same speakers on a stereo setup and home theatre setup without disconnecting and reconnecting to the amps.

Newbie question: you would set the output on the receiver to stereo and use the preamp mode to achieve what you said? If not, can you please explain a bit more on what you said?

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Newbie question: you would set the output on the receiver to stereo and use the preamp mode to achieve what you said? If not, can you please explain a bit more on what you said?

Let me give an utopian use case:

AVR : a cheap marantz slim 50k avr having around say 60w per channel, with pre out

Front speakers : KEF Reference 1 or something of that league

Surrounds and center kefs lower range like r100, nothing like reference but still have some dna of kef sound.

I can now connect a marantz pm 14 or some higher end power amps between the avr and front speakers still having almost similar profile of sound for movies.

While listening to music from a cd player connected to the pm 14 i van turn of the avr and there by having the same effect.

I am running a similar setup but with speakers and amps front a different brand. My music mode only uses the stereo amp and speakers and a laptop with a dac. When i watch movies i just switch the input of the stereo amp .

 

[ktks1]

Got it, thanks.

 

[superczar]

Let me give an utopian use case:

AVR : a cheap marantz slim 50k avr having around say 60w per channel, with pre out

Front speakers : KEF Reference 1 or something of that league

Surrounds and center kefs lower range like r100, nothing like reference but still have some dna of kef sound.

I can now connect a marantz pm 14 or some higher end power amps between the avr and front speakers still having almost similar profile of sound for movies.

While listening to music from a cd player connected to the pm 14 i van turn of the avr and there by having the same effect.

I am running a similar setup but with speakers and amps front a different brand. My music mode only uses the stereo amp and speakers and a laptop with a dac. When i watch movies i just switch the input of the stereo amp .

Here is a confession -
kind of similar setup .. good fronts, acceptable surrounds and center
albeit with a slightly lower grade Amp (PM 17)
In fact I have even disabled the pre-amp stage on the PM-17 and use it in decoupled mode (and I’d suggest you too should do the same)

Yet I , for the love of god cannot tell the difference between the speakers connected directly to the AVR or to the Integrated
Both scenarios sound pretty good to me with decent imaging and soundstage !

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Here is a confession -
kind of similar setup .. good fronts, acceptable surrounds and center
albeit with a slightly lower grade Amp (PM 17)
In fact I have even disabled the pre-amp stage on the PM-17 and use it in decoupled mode (and I’d suggest you too should do the same)

Yet I , for the love of god cannot tell the difference between the speakers connected directly to the AVR or to the Integrated
Both scenarios sound pretty good to me with decent imaging and soundstage !

That’s not my setup which I described... I had mentioned it as an utopian setup.

 

[superczar]

That’s not my setup which I described... I had mentioned it as an utopian setup.

If you ask me, I think Integrated amps are a bit overrated esp for a typical home setup where you pretty much never play at reference levels.
Sure, the THD level measurements and SINAD on my PM17 will be better than on my AVR , maybe -90db vs -70db.
But can I hear any difference at 0 or -15 db even with well resolving speakers, not really!
Must be the crud accumulated in my ears!

 

[rpmahale]

It's TRUE that stereo performance of AVR is underrated to that of IA but still mid segment AVR manages to sound almost 70 to 80% of that similarly price IA. If you truely wish to compare AVR with IA then compare it with IA which cost 50% of AVR. In that case such AVR will outperform the IA in that class. Entry level AVR + PA may sound better but cost equal to mid segment avr and both may sound same. But in first case we get average build quality, poorly designed amplifier, power supply, low end DAC with limited connectivity and features . Mid segment avr have good build quality, newly designed PS and amplifier, advanced DAC, vast connectivity options with latest technology and features on board . Now it depends on user which option he wish to explore but I feels spending more on speakers than electronics may be truely worthwhile.

 

[Love4sound]

So as I mentioned before the pre-amplifier option has to be selected in the amp assign section. One small catch is all the channels will be powered only by a power amp. So no mixing of avr and PA for amplification. If you want to use this mode in a 9 channel set up you need to have a 9 channel PA

 

[ktks1]

Then I'll just wait for 3600 to reduce in price

 

[Love4sound]

Then I'll just wait for 3600 to reduce in price

Yeah and who needs 8k. Wise choice will be to go for the 2018/2019 models when price drops

 

[reachkalyan.kr]

Pioneer Lx59 which I owned earlier had an option to select which channels are connected to power amp.
Eg - I remember in Lx59 we can select FR, FL ,C /all channels so that particular channel Poweramp section alone will be disabled.
I feel it should be minimal requirement for AVR.
Let us see how denon gives the option.

 

[ktks1]

Another way to put it:
If individual channels cannot be turned off, 3700H will be a decent alternative to the Marantz processor 7705 (which costs twice as much).
A Sonodyne 5 channel amp and two Crown XLS1002 amps will make for a great 9 ch power solution.

Nevertheless, 3600 is more than enough for most Indian households, and using a power amp for LCR will suffice.

 

[superczar]

It's TRUE that stereo performance of AVR is underrated to that of IA but still mid segment AVR manages to sound almost 70 to 80% of that similarly price IA. If you truely wish to compare AVR with IA then compare it with IA which cost 50% of AVR. In that case such AVR will outperform the IA in that class. Entry level AVR + PA may sound better but cost equal to mid segment avr and both may sound same. But in first case we get average build quality, poorly designed amplifier, power supply, low end DAC with limited connectivity and features . Mid segment avr have good build quality, newly designed PS and amplifier, advanced DAC, vast connectivity options with latest technology and features on board . Now it depends on user which option he wish to explore but I feels spending more on speakers than electronics may be truely worthwhile.

The IA in question was more than 100% of that of the AVR
Look up Marantz PM17 mk ii- this 2 channel amp weighs almost double that of a 7 channel Denon AVR..

Your last point on speakers couldn't be more true.
Anyone setting up a new system should allocate a very large part of the budget on the front L/R