Odyssey Stratos

[sidvee]

I have acquired the well regarded Parasound Halo JC2 preamp which I introduced into my current setup - Odyssey stratos extreme and Usher Be718's. The difference in sound I heard from the introduction of this pre into my system compared to my exisiting pre's is "JAW DROPPING" to say the least. First thing I noticed is the huge soundstage width and depth, then the precise imaging and lastly superb extension in the frequency extremes. Resolution is also exemplary. This is a phenomenal pre - I have heard this and other ss pre's in the $4-$7k - at various dealers in the US and by far this was the best sounding pre, but in my system it has really taken my listening experience to an entirely new level - I am guessing the synergy with the Odyssey is a key factor here. Anyways I guess this will stop my upgraditis for a while - especially in my solid state system - I am still looking to upgrade my tube setup - and am now considering the excellent AR Ref3 as an alternate to my Conrad johnson 17ls2 and also my digital source where I am considering the Ayre players.
Cheers
Sid

 

[marsilians]

I have acquired the well regarded Parasound Halo JC2 preamp which I introduced into my current setup - Odyssey stratos extreme and Usher Be718's. ...

Thats a great move Sid. The JC2 is an excellent pre- HOWEVER it sounds best after about 150 hours of break-in - if you believe in it The resolution will become more pronouced esp. for orchestral type music. With the wide soundstage it throws, I am sure the listening experience will be excellent.

Std. Disclaimer: I dont work for Parasound or sell the brand.

 

[sidvee]

Thats a great move Sid. The JC2 is an excellent pre- HOWEVER it sounds best after about 150 hours of break-in - if you believe in it The resolution will become more pronouced esp. for orchestral type music. With the wide soundstage it throws, I am sure the listening experience will be excellent.

Std. Disclaimer: I dont work for Parasound or sell the brand.

I am a believer in equipment break-in Marsilians (as opposed to listener break-in)hyeah:and that is exactly what I am doing right now. Looking forward to an even better sound. What is interesting here is for the past 12-14 years I have been an ardent tube follower preferring the warm, lush sound of tubes to the coolness of SS but now with the current crop of SS gear I am enjoying the SS sound more and more though I do go back to tubes ocassionally - esp. in winter (It is touching 42C here in Hyd:sad
Cheers,
Sid

 

[prem]

Hi Sidvee

Congrats on the JC2. Since you are really enjoying your JC2, you should if possible give a listen to the JC1 monoblocs. I had them for about 2 years and really liked them. I have not heard the Odyssey Stratos so cannot say how they compare but the JC1s are really great power amps.

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sidvee

Congrats on the JC2. Since you are really enjoying your JC2, you should if possible give a listen to the JC1 monoblocs. I had them for about 2 years and really liked them. I have not heard the Odyssey Stratos so cannot say how they compare but the JC1s are really great power amps.

Thanks Prem - I did consider the JC1's initally - but IMHO these will probably be an overkill in my room which is only 14' x 12', so I decided on the Stratos. Regardless you are absolutely right, the Synergy of the JC1's and JC2 can create magic having heard these with the Magneplanar MG 3.6/R recently, I would say it was one of the best setups I have heard for what would be a modest sum of money - by audiophile standards atleast.

Cheers
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

I have heard the Ushers and B&Ws a fair bit and what you notice with the Ushers are the absolute neutrality of the signal. Most people tend to mistake this for "analytical" sound. However its being true to its source and that is one of the great strenths of this model.

B&W tend to colour a bit and sound warm. Now it becomes a personal choice as to what listeners want.

This is not a dig against any one brand but just to expect different sound signatures when auditioning them.

Okay, if we can keep it cool...I totally disagree with this description of 718.
I have heard it a number of times with various gears at various places including my own room. I personally use some of the most neutral speakers (thats what industry people call them) Dyanudio and ATC in my room with S-L amplification and in my experience the 718 is a highly coloured speaker. Not the least bit "Neutral". I am shocked that you call it "Absolute Neutrality". IMO they are an example of absolute coloration but in a good way. Dont get me wrong here, I am not opposed to coloration at all. In fact I would love to have a Horn loaded speaker with a very sweet sounding tube amp in my room even if they are no where close to neutral (my current room doesnt permit that) so in that way the 718 is a sweet sounding speaker with smooth airy highs and a tad muffled but very non fatiguing mids. I can see why many people would love these speakers and it is not a wrong a choice. But calling it as neutral is "Crime" IMO.

 

[sidvee]

As I often say - to each his own - Attached are quotes from a number of professional reviews on the 718 (and for people who believe professional reviews are not to be trusted) - also my personal observation - having owned the speakers for about 2 years now and having listened to them extensively with various combinations of amps, preamps and sources - I dont find them overtly colored at all, a bit hard to drive - ok very hard to drive - but colored - no I never did feel that way.

"However, the Be-718s are every bit as neutral and detailed, and can play quite loud as well, although not as loud as the M2s" - Doug Schneider Soundstage

"Superbly transparent, it's certainly one of the least colored speakers I've used" - John Potis 6moons

"The fact that it stays around 0.2% from 500 Hz up to the limits of audibility gives the speaker a very neutral sound. If there were more variability, the speaker might sound harsh, tinny, overly sibilant, and otherwise some sort of skewed sound quality that would take away from being neutral. " - John E Johnson Jr. - Secrets of Home theater & High Fidelity

Cheers
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

Nice one Sid !! Not much can I say about those comments from those reviewers except that one such review also compares the BE-718 to a Dynaudio C1 and finds it to be almost at the same level ..I think it was Stereophile !!
I have heard the C1 and what can I say .

Anyway, I do value your opinion as an owner much more than these reviews.
In the mean time I will wait for a session with 718 when it sounds neutral to me.

 

[sidvee]

All I can say Dr. Bass is that when I form an opinion of a component I do tend to consider all the professional reviews - a lot of the reviewers out there are quite experienced - more so than the average poster in the forums - and not all are biased or out to scam the readers - and if that was the case all the audio reviewers would be out of jobs and all audio magazines would be bankrupt. After that I listen with my own ears understanding that what I am listening will sound quite unique to my ears so maybe many will not agree, but regardless it needs to please my ear. Last but not least I also value objective measurements of products. IMHO I have seen a lot of duds in high end audio so it is not necessary that high price equates to great performance.
Cheers
Sid

 

[venkatcr]

Sidvee, I want you to do me a little favour. With the amp and the pre-amp connected, keep the volume pot at zero, put your ears into the speakers and see if you hear any mild hiss. Now play the any CD, keep the volume pot at zero, again put your ears to the speakers and see if you hear the music.

The reason I am asking this is a peculiar case I came across a Parasound Pre-power JC2 and A21 combination and have not been able to isolate the issue.

Cheers

 

[dinyaar]

Hi guys

Frankly I have given up on reviews. Coloured speaker or not a review surely colours your mind. In all honesty a good review does not even inflate my interest in the particular product anymore.
Dr bass mentioned the comparison of the usher with the Dyna C1. The review suggests that the usher is 'eerily' close to the Dyna at a quarter of the price. Now having heard both I feel thats pretty far from the truth. Its can be compared to something like a focus 140 but then i personally would prefer the usher.

I guess a neutral speaker would be some PMC, a thiel perhaps? I know its the selling point of a Dynaudio but at least my old Contour 1.3SE was not the most neutral speaker IMO. Maybe the amps were not up to the mark which is a major regret.
B&W definately not but it can sound great with a powerful neutral amp. I have had good results with the Bryston/B&W combo which was considered a poor combo till a few years ago BUT suddenly its a very popular combo globally!
Rgds

 

[sidvee]

With all due respects to concerns with reviews - IMHO - it is always a first line of reference - one has to listen for themselves as to where their preferences lie. Also when one decides to rebuff a review one has to consider whether all the variables such as level matching, acoustics, partnering equipment etc have been taken into account. Another thing I have noticed that after a price point, the difference between components boils down to 10-15% - a clear case of diminishing returns. Case in point - when I auditioned the JC2 at $4000, I also auditioned the pass labs XP20 at $8500 - more than double the cost. Was the sound 100% better - No way. In fact to my ears the better value was definitely the JC2 not to mention sound. Ok the Pass may have been better in absolute macro dynamics and such but it was not a clear win. So now if I was to write a review with the JC2 and compare it to the Pass XP20, would a reader just go ahead and say that I am totally erroneous in my conclusion and that I am wacko because I dared to compare a $4k component to a $8.5k one. They can - it is their prerogative - but the fact stands that to my ears it was not and that was a honest representation in my review. So - not supporting Stereophile or any other rag - but some due consideration has to been given to reviews and ultimately the proof of the pudding lies in hearing. In the past I have owned Dynaudio confidence 3, and I currently own the Focus 110 so I am quite familiar with the Dynaudio sound and believe me I prefer the Ushers compared to these, something about a smoother highs. Also one has to look at measurements to a certain degree and not rely totally on subjective opinions as well, because there is a science involved as well. Anyways these are just my humble opinions -not statements of facts - and hope I have not come across as overtly critical - believe me that is not the intention at all.
Cheers
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Sidvee, I want you to do me a little favour. With the amp and the pre-amp connected, keep the volume pot at zero, put your ears into the speakers and see if you hear any mild hiss. Now play the any CD, keep the volume pot at zero, again put your ears to the speakers and see if you hear the music.

The reason I am asking this is a peculiar case I came across a Parasound Pre-power JC2 and A21 combination and have not been able to isolate the issue.

Cheers

Will check it out Venkat and get back.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[malvai]

Hi guys

Frankly I have given up on reviews. Coloured speaker or not a review surely colours your mind. In all honesty a good review does not even inflate my interest in the particular product anymore.
Dr bass mentioned the comparison of the usher with the Dyna C1. The review suggests that the usher is 'eerily' close to the Dyna at a quarter of the price. Now having heard both I feel thats pretty far from the truth. Its can be compared to something like a focus 140 but then i personally would prefer the usher.

I guess a neutral speaker would be some PMC, a thiel perhaps? I know its the selling point of a Dynaudio but at least my old Contour 1.3SE was not the most neutral speaker IMO. Maybe the amps were not up to the mark which is a major regret.
B&W definately not but it can sound great with a powerful neutral amp. I have had good results with the Bryston/B&W combo which was considered a poor combo till a few years ago BUT suddenly its a very popular combo globally!
Rgds

Yup Dinyaar! The Bryston B&W and the Bryston Thiel combo's are suddenly becoming popular all over the world. In my case, it was a happy accident!
I always loved the way the Bryston 3 BSST sounded and went for it! Despite a lot of people scoffing. I am happy!

Eventually it's all upto the person who buys it. If the equipment does it for 'em. It does it! And that's that!

I think, usually reviews and reviers are coloured, more than the equipment! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[sidvee]

I guess in the end I will have to agree to disagree with all the people who feel that all audio reviews and reviewers are biased. To me at-least it is a perfectly logical way to approach my system building - especially true in India - where most of the components are not even available and those precious few that are - are priced high - so I tend to compare and contrast with reviews first before I venture out to audition - fortunately not always in India though - like many of the members here. I also tend to place a little more trust in an experienced professional reviewers ears. BTW I do read reviews of all other high value items as well - such as cars - before I audition. YMMV
Cheers
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

I know its the selling point of a Dynaudio but at least my old Contour 1.3SE was not the most neutral speaker IMO. Maybe the amps were not up to the mark which is a major regret.

Sir,
I had the very same speaker (1.3SE) and tried a variety of amps over a period of 2.5 years of ownership and the only time I could hear its true potential was when it was paired with a Symphonic line. I still missed having a big enough room for them to breathe. My room was a about 180sqft which is just about okay but no where close to what needs. I have played it in a room about 450sqft it rocked. The Dyns of that era were a different league. They were hungry for everything room/amplification/source/software but when you give it all that they are outstanding in every sense, very difficult to match them. Today's Dynaudio are on a different philosophy, they can run on average 50 watters and can sound good with average source material as well...but that magic is missing:sad:.

Anyway, the reason I consider Dyns to be very neutral is because they can play Metallica, Miles Davis, Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits Beethoven, Mahler, Santana, Michael Jackson, Eminem, Ben Webster, Duke Ellington, Keith Jarret, Norah Jones, Fleetwood Mac, Tracy Chapman, Jennifer Warnes, Daler Mehndi, AR Rehman..you name it...all with almost equal ease and conviction. You will never feel that its not doing that music enough justice. It can change colors in a flash. The 718 just didnt do that for me...simple. It sounded great only on a certain kind of music and the list of those are pretty limited. But yes, they are pretty forgiving so they manage to sound "okay" on many other Genres as well but the league of greatness that we are discussing needs much higher scores than just "okay".
Having gone from the Dyanudio to ATC and having played the same numbers, I can definitely attest to the fact that the CDs were not at fault. Just my observation.

 

[sidvee]

Guys - Neutrality of a speaker is as subjective as its many other attributes. Reason being is that speakers which measure relatively neutral under anechoic conditions will sound/measure differently in typical domestic settings, especially those without acoustical treatment. So in the end it will definitely boil down to individual preferences but IMO if there are gross deviations from neutrality compared to measurements then one has to take a good look at their listening environment.
Cheers
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Sidvee, I want you to do me a little favour. With the amp and the pre-amp connected, keep the volume pot at zero, put your ears into the speakers and see if you hear any mild hiss. Now play the any CD, keep the volume pot at zero, again put your ears to the speakers and see if you hear the music.

The reason I am asking this is a peculiar case I came across a Parasound Pre-power JC2 and A21 combination and have not been able to isolate the issue.

Cheers

Venkat - I did what you mentioned and:
1. No there was no mild hiss with my ear almost touching the speakers
2. No - with the vol. knob turned all the way down I did not discern any music from the speakers, again with my ears almost touching the speakers.
I can think of 1 thing that may mitigate this phenomenon - esentially gain staging - by turning down the gain on the A21 using the gain knobs provided behind - the hiss as well as the music can be reduced.
Another thing I have noticed that high sensitivity speakers can be a culprit as well - what speakers did you observe this with?
Regardless the JC2 with 14db of gain is not a super high number so I doubt if it is the culprit.
Cheers
Sid

 

[dinyaar]

Yup Dinyaar! The Bryston B&W and the Bryston Thiel combo's are suddenly becoming popular all over the world. In my case, it was a happy accident!
I always loved the way the Bryston 3 BSST sounded and went for it! Despite a lot of people scoffing. I am happy!

Eventually it's all upto the person who buys it. If the equipment does it for 'em. It does it! And that's that!

I think, usually reviews and reviers are coloured, more than the equipment! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Manav U are happy, Thats that.

If I may I would like to suggest u hear the 4BSST on those speakers. More relaxed, powerful yet accurate & detailed. Effortlessly musical.
The Accuphase /Thiel is even more relaxed and hence I opted for it. Got the speaker at home (Dark Cherry).
See for 10 years I have been hearing junk about the Brystons but I was happy and so will u. Good power amps and one that can drive anything with ease.
In fact I would like to add here that the B&W 805s too sounded their best with the 4B. Its a pleasantly coloured speaker that can get tooo warm with lots of gear but sounded nice with the Bryston. I never liked them with the Classe and rather preferred the no frills Arcam gear.
Best sound I heard in ages is the Accuphase Pre/ Power with the Thiel CS 3.7 but I cant afford those amps and I cant position that speaker So hoping that the next best option i.e Accu E 450 + Thiel CS 2.4 works for me.
Rgds

 

[dinyaar]

Sir,
I had the very same speaker (1.3SE) and tried a variety of amps over a period of 2.5 years of ownership and the only time I could hear its true potential was when it was paired with a Symphonic line. I still missed having a big enough room for them to breathe. My room was a about 180sqft which is just about okay but no where close to what needs. I have played it in a room about 450sqft it rocked. The Dyns of that era were a different league. They were hungry for everything room/amplification/source/software but when you give it all that they are outstanding in every sense, very difficult to match them. Today's Dynaudio are on a different philosophy, they can run on average 50 watters and can sound good with average source material as well...but that magic is missing:sad:.

Anyway, the reason I consider Dyns to be very neutral is because they can play Metallica, Miles Davis, Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits Beethoven, Mahler, Santana, Michael Jackson, Eminem, Ben Webster, Duke Ellington, Keith Jarret, Norah Jones, Fleetwood Mac, Tracy Chapman, Jennifer Warnes, Daler Mehndi, AR Rehman..you name it...all with almost equal ease and conviction. You will never feel that its not doing that music enough justice. It can change colors in a flash. The 718 just didnt do that for me...simple. It sounded great only on a certain kind of music and the list of those are pretty limited. But yes, they are pretty forgiving so they manage to sound "okay" on many other Genres as well but the league of greatness that we are discussing needs much higher scores than just "okay".
Having gone from the Dyanudio to ATC and having played the same numbers, I can definitely attest to the fact that the CDs were not at fault. Just my observation.

Dr,
Thanks for the info. Please dont call me Sir!!!!
As I said it is a big regret that I could never power that speaker well as I didnt have the budget for it then. Speaker too was bought pre owned. Sounded dull at soft volumes and the amp didnt allow me to play loud (Rotel ) Symphonic line would have been way way out of my league!!!
Agree completely on the old Dyna and the different course they are on now.

A friend recently bought a pre owned Usher BE 718 and I thought its a nice speaker. He has a great room so placing was not a problem and he is driving it with a Quad 909 + Passion Passive and he likes it. The guy mainly listens to W Classical and seems happy.
Rgds