Offering Popcorn Hour A-110 in India

[anm]

I think I will let it pass as well.
Can't use plastic on just any site. If pickup, COD was an option I could have considered it. In fact before this post came up, I was leaning more towards NMT than wdtv due to the HD sound pass through, but there seems to be too many hassles, and other options are either more cost effective (wdtv) or greatly action packed.

Moserw - with htpc my only concern is the OS. Buying a windows xp would set me back by around 6k. OTOH linux may not be able to handle hd audio etc due to lack of drivers afaik.

regards

 

[anm]

A suggestion atul - you may like to edit your original post and post answers to most common questions asked by forum members.
Hope anyone coming to this thread would not need to read through completely to understand your offer, and you may get better leads.

regards

 

[moserw]

Most PC vendors where you make the purchase/assembly will load the system with the OS (these days Vista usually, but you can ask for XP). If you go for a branded PC like Dell, etc. the OS will be part of the purchase.

You can also negotiate with the PC vendor to throw in the OS for free or at a reduced rate, I'm sure he'll have some XP CD lying around which is not going to be purchased anyway since MS no longer sells XP as its reached EOL.

I'm sure there will be a workaround if you negotiate with the PC vendor (most people will give an OS, some software or even games for free), just don't let this be a reason for not getting on the PC/HTPC way.

Another option is if you know someone who works at Dell or a similar MNC. My brother works at Dell and they always give OS, Anti-Virus, and tons of other software CDs for free and all legal copies too.

I think I will let it pass as well.
Can't use plastic on just any site. If pickup, COD was an option I could have considered it. In fact before this post came up, I was leaning more towards NMT than wdtv due to the HD sound pass through, but there seems to be too many hassles, and other options are either more cost effective (wdtv) or greatly action packed.

Moserw - with htpc my only concern is the OS. Buying a windows xp would set me back by around 6k. OTOH linux may not be able to handle hd audio etc due to lack of drivers afaik.

regards

 

[reju]

Hey talking about Dell, they offer wonderful service man! Out of the world! I am totally impressed over last 2 years, ever since I had bought my notebook Precision M65.

 

[moserw]

Hey talking about Dell, they offer wonderful service man! Out of the world! I am totally impressed over last 2 years, ever since I had bought my notebook Precision M65.

Oh yeah and that too on-site service and warranty which is so good. Saves the headache of having to carry the PC for repair. I've even had instances where they carried the h/w and then after repair they brought it back and fixed it up.

 

[suprateep]

coming back to the popcornhour guys - i had almost made a payment for popcorn hour A110/Dragontech iobox100HD but small problems wrt file playback, hdd detection, setup, networking etc set it back. Finally I went out one day (after wife complaining no movies in 3 weeks and no movies in a cinema hall for 2 months) and made myself an HTPC.

Total cost: around 12k (including to and fro fare by auto).
Setup time: for hw setup 3 hours, sw setup 4 hours + patches downloaded overnight
Experience: Great. The HDMI passes 7.1 LPCM to onkyo 606 receiver though i have hooked it up directly to the panny pv8. Wife uses winamp/foobar etc for mp3s (for her the sound in pv8 is fine). I have hooked the htpc via spdif optical to receiver to get DTS 5.1/2.0. Overall a great experience and HDMI and realtek drivers exist fine (unlike the horror stories posted on other sites with gigabyte 780g and Asus M3 N/A based boards)
Game changer The PCH A110 had developed a support for fanart (trust me it looks great with a screenshot, dvd cover and other movie related info, synopsis, ratings, actor, director etc) which looked great on the NMT. After some research i set up XBMC and found out that it automatically downloads fanart from IMDB. You keep addign files - it does it automatically (some cases because of duplicates you need to set it up manually just like a NMT). Added is the fact that a PC plays nearly 99.9% of all file formats (save SACD) HTPC is the way to go.

Problems:
Size: HTPC is not small. Right now have a iball 306 which i will chuck away after i get a Apevia HTPC case from outside.
Noise: Someone with energy efficient Pentiums or AMDs need not worry. I have a AMD 7750 black that runs hot (around 40C when idle 50C at other times). Creates a din. Qfan was enabled - helped a bit but with 40C ambient temp in pune I cant expect more. Nights are fine with AC on. Have downloaded a few patched which might help in decreasing the vcores.

So NMT makers can basically say bye bye. If Asus/Gigabye or others realize that there is a huge potential for HTPCs and come up with a Nvida CUDA Atom combo within 15-20k - NMTs will be dead.

RIP my 2 cents

 

[suprateep]

Oh yeah and that too on-site service and warranty which is so good. Saves the headache of having to carry the PC for repair. I've even had instances where they carried the h/w and then after repair they brought it back and fixed it up.

moserw but in these days i have hardly come across people with failed products save the Seagate 11 series hdds (usually if its bad it happens within a few days) or lasts for some time - by that time its time to throw it away. Just like OEM vendors - a lot of manufactures give warranty whence they replace the product.

Most of the cases they refrain from repairing and instead offer a new product free.

What is going for the WD TV is the price unlike the A110. But a PC is future proof. You can rip music/dvds through it. Surf the net in big screen. A a usb infrared remote/wireless remote can turn the pc in a same way. And it need not be visible either.

 

[moserw]

Yeah I know. Breakdown is very rare for PCs these days but it's been so for the many, many years I've been using a PC. The issues I had mainly were with earthing not being done properly in my home which resulted in some short circuit and the mobo going down. And Dell had it replaced instead of having it repaired.

moserw but in these days i have hardly come across people with failed products save the Seagate 11 series hdds (usually if its bad it happens within a few days) or lasts for some time - by that time its time to throw it away. Just like OEM vendors - a lot of manufactures give warranty whence they replace the product.

Most of the cases they refrain from repairing and instead offer a new product free.

What is going for the WD TV is the price unlike the A110. But a PC is future proof. You can rip music/dvds through it. Surf the net in big screen. A a usb infrared remote/wireless remote can turn the pc in a same way. And it need not be visible either.

 

[anm]

and the sense of achievement of diy - definitely an htpc instead of nmt!
I am still inclined for not so power hungry but powerful mobo+cpu that would fix a small cabinet.

 

[nutanc]

First a disclaimer:
I am a friend of Atul's and it is me who suggested him to become a reseller for NMT as I am a very happy user of popcornhour.
Comparisons:
HTPC vs NMT : You can never beat what a HTPC does with an NMT. But there is always a cost differential. I had built my own HTPC using Linux before I bought the NMT and even setup Myth TV. But a good HTPC costs more. Also, more importantly for me, the power consumption of a HTPC is much more than an NMT and I generally keep my NMT on always to download youtube videos etc.When the Atom based HTPCs hit the market, then I guess the NMTs will take a back seat, but who knows, I hope then the NMTs will also reduce the cost to maybe below $100 . We can certainly wait till the competition heats up, but if we want an NMT now then the price is as specified by popcorn hour and others.The best way to get an NMT now maybe is to ask a friend coming from US to get one so that it will cost only $215 or ~Rs.10750. But even he has to pay shipping as popcorn hour is not available in stores, so another ~Rs.1000-Rs.1500 and legally he has to pay customs that is around Rs.2500. So even for a guy getting an NMT from US will end up spending around Rs.14000.

WD TV vs NMT: Both are based on the same sigma processor, but for me the clincher was network connectivity and Media service portal. I can watch comics, Apple trailers, youtube, Flickr and Picasa photos online directly from my NMT which I cannot do with a WD TV. Additionally it can download bit torrents. Though I would advise to download only legal bit torrents, like the Elephant dream HD etc. In any case, there are a lot of comparisons between WD TV and NMT on the web and a google of WDTV vs Popcorn hour will show very good results.
In any case, the service of popcorn hour is also really great. My second popcorn hour had a small issue with the optical output, all I had to do was send an image of the drive over email and I got a replacement in a week.
Personally, I think HTPCs are better for us geeks , where we like to tinker around and even if it costs a little bit more, it is much more satisfying. (Though popcorn is also very geeky, you should see the changes I have made to mine ). But if you want to get something, plug it in to TV and directly watch some movies, i think the pocorn is better. But this is just my personal opinion.

p.s: I saw one reply where someone had built a HTPC for around Rs.12000. It would be really great if he can maybe gives us the specs so that we can also build one similarly.

 

[reju]

First a disclaimer:
I am a friend of Atul's and it is me who suggested him to become a reseller for NMT as I am a very happy user of popcornhour.
Comparisons:
HTPC vs NMT : You can never beat what a HTPC does with an NMT. But there is always a cost differential. I had built my own HTPC using Linux before I bought the NMT and even setup Myth TV. But a good HTPC costs more. Also, more importantly for me, the power consumption of a HTPC is much more than an NMT and I generally keep my NMT on always to download youtube videos etc.When the Atom based HTPCs hit the market, then I guess the NMTs will take a back seat, but who knows, I hope then the NMTs will also reduce the cost to maybe below $100 . We can certainly wait till the competition heats up, but if we want an NMT now then the price is as specified by popcorn hour and others.The best way to get an NMT now maybe is to ask a friend coming from US to get one so that it will cost only $215 or ~Rs.10750. But even he has to pay shipping as popcorn hour is not available in stores, so another ~Rs.1000-Rs.1500 and legally he has to pay customs that is around Rs.2500. So even for a guy getting an NMT from US will end up spending around Rs.14000.

WD TV vs NMT: Both are based on the same sigma processor, but for me the clincher was network connectivity and Media service portal. I can watch comics, Apple trailers, youtube, Flickr and Picasa photos online directly from my NMT which I cannot do with an NMT. Additionally it can download bit torrents. Though I would advise to download only legal bit torrents, like the Elephant dream HD etc. In any case, there are a lot of comparisons between WD TV and NMT on the web and a google of WDTV vs Popcorn hour will show very good results.
In any case, the service of popcorn hour is also really great. My second popcorn hour had a small issue with the optical output, all I had to do was send an image of the drive over email and I got a replacement in a week.
Personally, I think HTPCs are better for us geeks , where we like to tinker around and even if it costs a little bit more, it is much more satisfying. (Though popcorn is also very geeky, you should see the changes I have made to mine ). But if you want to get something, plug it in to TV and directly watch some movies, i think the pocorn is better. But this is just my personal opinion.

p.s: I saw one reply where someone had built a HTPC for around Rs.12000. It would be really great if he can maybe gives us the specs so that we can also build one similarly.

HD media players are extremely user friendly as compared to a HTPC, and cheaper as well.

I am also an owner of NMT, but today I am not convinced to pay more than double price just to access You Tube or some poor resolution video on my large LCD/ plasma. It will look awful. If you are buying a media player then most probably you will have a PC as well, so it makes more sense to watch these on your smaller monitor itself. Same goes for the torrents, I will schedule them and download with ease on my PC, and instead spend time watching movies on my media player.

You are correct about cost of buying PCH in USA, as of now it will cost USD 235.00 incl. shipping. But don't worry about the customs duty, even if you are travelling alone, and you're not carrying much electronic items, it legally falls within your baggage allowance of 25K (min 3 days stay). And if you are travelling with your family then you can even get 2-3 units.

PCH has done very well before WD TV, but as you know Indian consumers are always price sensitive. And if extra features are not over whelming, will they dare spend more than double?

 

[nutanc]

I completely agree with you reju. If all you want is just a video player to play your movies without any problems, then yes, the WD TV is a superb deal. In fact I too own a WD player. It is really good. But if you want to spend time with a new device and are looking for the geek and coolness factor, then an NMT is good. You can personalize it as per your taste. For example I am sure your Movie jukebox is completely different from mine.
I have set up widgets like stock alerts and weather alerts in my NMT. I can listen to lots of Online radio stations including Shoutcast. (I have not yet been able to crack indian stations like Raaga etc.). You can stream many indian movies from veoh etc( Not all are supported and you should have minimum 384 kbps).You can customize it and an NMT works like a squeezebox. In fact there are modules to make it work like that. You can find those in the nmt forums.
And power is certainly an issue. After I replaced my HTPC my power bill came down drastically. I made some rough calculations.
If you run your HTPC or computer to download stuff etc and keep it on for 12 hours a day , it increases your power by around 180-190 rupees. The same time you run a pop corn hour it will increase your power by around Rs.2.
You can calculate using How much electricity does my computer use? and also see Power Consumption of AV Equipment: How much does it cost to run these things?
Though what you say about price sensitivity is true. I think the perfect rate for an NMT would be Rs.10000 and that would have been possible around one year back when the dollar rate was even Rs.37 at one stage . Lets hope the rupee recovers soon. but meanwhile if you can afford it, it is certainly a good device.You will certainly have a lot of fun playing with it.

 

[atul]

HD media players are extremely user friendly as compared to a HTPC, and cheaper as well.

I am also an owner of NMT, but today I am not convinced to pay more than double price just to access You Tube or some poor resolution video on my large LCD/ plasma. It will look awful. If you are buying a media player then most probably you will have a PC as well, so it makes more sense to watch these on your smaller monitor itself. Same goes for the torrents, I will schedule them and download with ease on my PC, and instead spend time watching movies on my media player.

You are correct about cost of buying PCH in USA, as of now it will cost USD 235.00 incl. shipping. But don't worry about the customs duty, even if you are travelling alone, and you're not carrying much electronic items, it legally falls within your baggage allowance of 25K (min 3 days stay). And if you are travelling with your family then you can even get 2-3 units.

PCH has done very well before WD TV, but as you know Indian consumers are always price sensitive. And if extra features are not over whelming, will they dare spend more than double?

Thanks for all the interest, queries and analysis. I'm amazed to see kind of research you people do.

But guys for us its all about little money we would make out of it. So if you all find it worth go for it.

As far swiping of credit card is concerned, site would be PCI-DSS certified, so dont worry.

Thanks,
Atul

 

[suprateep]

First a disclaimer:
I am a friend of Atul's and it is me who suggested him to become a reseller for NMT as I am a very happy user of popcornhour.
Comparisons:
HTPC vs NMT : You can never beat what a HTPC does with an NMT. But there is always a cost differential. I had built my own HTPC using Linux before I bought the NMT and even setup Myth TV. But a good HTPC costs more. Also, more importantly for me, the power consumption of a HTPC is much more than an NMT and I generally keep my NMT on always to download youtube videos etc.When the Atom based HTPCs hit the market, then I guess the NMTs will take a back seat, but who knows, I hope then the NMTs will also reduce the cost to maybe below $100 . We can certainly wait till the competition heats up, but if we want an NMT now then the price is as specified by popcorn hour and others.The best way to get an NMT now maybe is to ask a friend coming from US to get one so that it will cost only $215 or ~Rs.10750. But even he has to pay shipping as popcorn hour is not available in stores, so another ~Rs.1000-Rs.1500 and legally he has to pay customs that is around Rs.2500. So even for a guy getting an NMT from US will end up spending around Rs.14000.

WD TV vs NMT: Both are based on the same sigma processor, but for me the clincher was network connectivity and Media service portal. I can watch comics, Apple trailers, youtube, Flickr and Picasa photos online directly from my NMT which I cannot do with an NMT. Additionally it can download bit torrents. Though I would advise to download only legal bit torrents, like the Elephant dream HD etc. In any case, there are a lot of comparisons between WD TV and NMT on the web and a google of WDTV vs Popcorn hour will show very good results.
In any case, the service of popcorn hour is also really great. My second popcorn hour had a small issue with the optical output, all I had to do was send an image of the drive over email and I got a replacement in a week.
Personally, I think HTPCs are better for us geeks , where we like to tinker around and even if it costs a little bit more, it is much more satisfying. (Though popcorn is also very geeky, you should see the changes I have made to mine ). But if you want to get something, plug it in to TV and directly watch some movies, i think the pocorn is better. But this is just my personal opinion.

p.s: I saw one reply where someone had built a HTPC for around Rs.12000. It would be really great if he can maybe gives us the specs so that we can also build one similarly.

the market dynamics change everyday nutanc. While a NMT at 150-200usd was great a year back with recession things have changed. HW prices have drooped quite a bit and with a multitude of problems that a NMT brings up (you really need to be a geek for it to deliver - a average person cannot set it up properly. So if it actually for geeks - why not an HTPC which gives far more flexibility wrt to surfing, downloading, ripping and everything else. The things is the NMTs are still not finished products and cannot justify the premium they are charging and the playback for normal DVD rips while fine, is still questionable for true blueray rips with judder and ff issues.

I contemplated getting a NMT for 1-2 months and finally last week decided to get the HTPC up and ready. Only thing missing is a proper HTPC case which i will get shortly.

For more details on my HTPC setup refer to
http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/4332-asus-m3n783m-overscan-issue-2.html

PS: I would prefer XP over vista for issues with true surround sound and driver conflicts. XBMC autoboots for me (takes exactly 20-30 seconds for bootup from post) - plays everything, can download torrents via plugin, automatically downloads fanart and ratings from imdb (for movie synopsis and info - which looks great :yahoo, plays nearly all file formats without judder, passes DTS 5.1/2.0 to HTPC (except true HD which it can pass as LPCM), also play DVDs. Apart from it ripping my 100 dvd collection takes 30-45 mins each on AutoGK or DVD fab. All better or equal to Axxo rip

And yes while power may be a problem - i use my HTPC for some hours only like watching a movie or ripping a couple fo dvds over a weekend. And while my laptop is connected 24/7 to the net, i can afford a bill of 200 bucks for the customization i get.

Let a average guy setup a NMT properly and I woudl be game for an unit too, apart from my HTPC

 

[moserw]

Apart from it ripping my 100 dvd collection takes 30-45 mins each on AutoGK or DVD fab. All better or equal to Axxo rip

Hope you're ripping in 5.1 and also in MKV/H264. All my stereo rips are of no use now with the HT setup and so it's back to ripping in 5.1 all over again. This time with foresight I'm ripping in MKV/H264 instead of Divx. Have to still do a test WRT PQ etc. but don't want to start re-ripping in MKV/H264 when the h/w to play it comes around in due course.

 

[nutanc]

For a true geek, certainly a HTPC is a better option. But just to clear things, The popcorn hour works right out of the box, auto recognizes resolution and plays movies from usb disk and network without any setup.Just plug it in to your TV with the cables provided, LCD or even CRT TVs. I have also never had any issue whatsoever with blu ray rips, even ones with fast paced action, (Speed racer, Dark knight etc), and there has never been any judder or the box getting stuck at any time. Also the ff has been just fine with option to jump to 10%,20% etc of the movie directly.If any issue is there, it will be there with WD TV also as both are from the sigma processor family only.
An average guy can really set it up easily without any issues as there is nothing to set up. Just open the box, switch it on, connect the box to the TV with the cables or HDMI cable and connect your USB stick and watch movies.

 

[moserw]

You will certainly have a lot of fun playing with it.

No offense but I kinda prefer playing FPS/TPS on my PC. That's a lot more fun... and I'm not even getting into Wii or PS3 here.

 

[suprateep]

Hope you're ripping in 5.1 and also in MKV/H264. All my stereo rips are of no use now with the HT setup and so it's back to ripping in 5.1 all over again. This time with foresight I'm ripping in MKV/H264 instead of Divx. Have to still do a test WRT PQ etc. but don't want to start re-ripping in MKV/H264 when the h/w to play it comes around in due course.

yes sir.....:licklips:
i spent last week to find the perfect combination going. I go for h264 and leave audio as it is. I use DVD fab (somehow its faster than Autogk + DVD decrypter combo) to directly rip movies to the HDD.

BTW after a lot of trial and error I found the combo with DVD fab that gives me PQ much better than a standard axxo rip. (300 and Garden State were DVDs of choice) - 702 MB in all.

Hindi movies will take around 1 GB for best PQ with 5.1 sound.

Anyway DVDs are fine with NMTs but FF/RR or going to a final point in a movie is difficult and buggy. Trust me on that.

PS: And i have tried the TVIX 6500 with QoS Blueray rip - artefacts are there. Playback is not smooth at all (tried multiple files too). And yes the only selling factor is that its a all in one device - a lot of people still prefer all in one system (CDP+CP+FM+speakers) to a component system. This is where the NMT is unbeatable. WRT to PQ, SQ - it can never match the flexibility of a HTPC>

 

[atul]

Okay guys to make a point that NMT at 1080p and true DTS sound is flawless an ff/rw is smooth, We will do a COD for one of core member belonging to Hyderabad.

The fun of playing your media with a remote is incomparable and kind of control popcorn gives is awesome. When it comes to leisure, most important thing is ease and convenience.

You can certainly build HTPC using general PC with similar capabilities and more. Intel ITX DG range is ideal, its small, its fan less, takes low power, have everything needed for a NMT built in, including IR for remote check this:

Intel DG45FC Mini-ITX Motherboard

But for an end user device you need a specialize hardware which does only the needed job. You can build router/switches with a PC, still we have CISCO/Juniper/Extreme.

That is where sigma processor comes in:
Sigma Designs - SMP8650 Series

This processor does all the processing needed for NMT built in. Someone has to design a board for exposing the IO and Syabas/WD did that. Now someone needs to develop a good user interface for it and so is popcorn and more who have done that.

There is no question of problem with audio and high definition video as processor itself does that, till there is a bug in the software that anyway can be fixed with new firmware release. And this is one very important point as far as popcorn is concern; they have an active support and solid user base.

We at Ozonetel do our own hardware design and manufacturing. We have couple design in production with Analog devices, Intel ixp and power pc processors.

Our target was to build media solutions for end user but at a better price, and after six months of to and fro we ended up with Popcorn. It would have a taken good enough time to build something similar including hardware design, as Syabas is no more licensing to new vendors they already have too many.

There is another one we tested:

Welcome to PLANET Technology Corporation.

Prices for NMT will never come down, major reason is that the Processor and hardware is built for specific purpose. It cant be used for anything else and so has a limited demand, compare to a general purpose processors. Its all about demand and supply.

We have complete media solution with NMT acting as a media client. In parallel we are offering it for retail for end users, since we are not into retail business and dont have enough resources for it, we are avoiding pickups and COD to keep it simple.

I shared the story as we went through the process to identify a good media client for our solution.

Choice is always with you.

 

[moserw]

@atul - I've used Popcorn Hour (well at least seen one in action) extensively since one of my friends has it and I will definitely agree with what you're saying in terms of performance. However, one issue that many of us have is in regards to the price too. At 15K it would be out of the reach of many and at half the price WDTV is even easier to use, does practically everything that Popcorn Hour does (except networking which is not an issue to many and also a real headache to many to get to work) and ends up being a more viable/attractive option.

I for one would never go for Popcorn Hour at 15K. I've a dual core and a quad core at home and both will beat both Popcorn Hour and WDTV in terms of performance. If I have to then I would choose to invest in WDTV at around 7K.

Unless the prices come down NMTs would find it hard with WDTV and PCs for competition. Heck, I am even against CD Players because they cost so much and do so little and at their cost I could assemble a PC that will give as good or even better performance and also do a lot many things. The same applies for NMTs too. I can assemble a PC at the same cost that will do whatever the NMT does and better too and then again do a lot more things too.

No offense to you personally but that's the way I see things.