On transports

[raz_737]

Sound played from the computer is inferior.

As I understand,you are comparing the sound from a computer to the CD played using your CD Player (not Cd drive).Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[gobble]

Why do you have to pay so much to get these features, I suppose any half decent SACD player will accomodate all these formats and will cost much lesser. BTW, most high end "CD transports" are CD only transports and that includes Philips, CEC, Esoteric, 47 Labs, JVC (Reimyo), Sony. And all these costs many times more than Acoustic portrait (not necessarily sound better).

Yes yes, but I was day dreaming about affording cdm-pro2 drive only hyeah:

Sir,
I need to understand a small thing - 2 things actually.
Both are marked in red - let me try and phrase my question :-
a]
Even if you have a SACD Transport how will you take a Digital Out from it ?
b]
No SACD / CD Transport can read any 24 bit material. It will have to be a DVD Drive. Any DVD Drive will not read SACD - At least that is what I think.

Please do shed some light on what Transport you want ? Who Makes it ? Where it can be got from ?
I have never come across 1 like this;
SACD Forum Protocol does not permit non-encrypted Digital Data to leave any SACD Transport - again, I am not 100 % certain, so do correct me if my information is incorrect.

Thanks.

Thanks. My point was and I was only trying to say that if I spent an expensive 80K on a transport, it would be my last one that allowed me to do everything (including making coffee) ... I wasn't being too analytical when I wrote that sorry ...

Sorry to butt in, but I think Gobble may have meant 'DSD' files that are available and not SACD per se. On a different note, I know of 2 ways 2 tap the contents from an SACD however, they involve a bit of DIY.

1. You can use a 1st gen. PS3, which does not have an upgraded firmware, to output a PCM version of the DSD information stored in the medium.

2. You can tap the DSD line from some DVD players (Denon x9x0 series, Oppo 980, etc) and output it to a DSD DAC (like the Saber DACs, for one) to get good sound for not a lot of money...

Yes I had only 24x88/176/192 HD formats in mind, maybe I wrote the wrong terminology in my post. Wasn't exactly thinking about buying the almost defunct sacd format. Thanks for clarifying on my behalf.

Sound played from the computer is inferior.

As I understand,you are comparing the sound from a computer to the CD played using your CD Player (not Cd drive).Correct me if I am wrong.

No No I think everyone understood this to be from HDD or L3 cache tweak or SDCard disk since we have had multiple discussions about this on the forum

--G0bble

 

[2chFreak]

Sound played from the computer is inferior.

As I understand,you are comparing the sound from a computer to the CD played using your CD Player (not Cd drive).Correct me if I am wrong.

PC with USB out is connected to DAC
CD Transport connected to DAC using sPDIF or AES

Play FLAC file X from PC
Also play same track with file X on a CD disc via transport
Listening is done via the same DAC
Comparison done by switching to-and-fro DAC inputs

 

[musicbee]

My experience tells me that this is not a problem with CDRip.Music played from computer is inferior to the same wave files played from a CD player.If your CD player has USB support or if you have any cheap DVD player with USB support,play the same wave files through USB and they sound much better than the computer.

This is what i observed from my experience.Please try it yourself and let us know your observations.

Sound played from the computer is inferior.

As I understand,you are comparing the sound from a computer to the CD played using your CD Player (not Cd drive).Correct me if I am wrong.

Give me the best PC with the best h/w and I can still make it sound like a tin can simply by using WMP or VLC.

Unless you have made serious effort to setup an audiophile grade PC like C.A.P.S. your experience is very limited.

I can also use a player like Foobar and make the SQ on par (and improve on) just about any CPD (rest of the chain remaining the same) with only changing DSP settings on Foobar. There is even a player for the PC like Lilith which sounds like a tube. Then there are RAM/memory players like cPlay (same can be achieved with Foobar). Even paid/premium players like JRiver Media Center & XXHighEnd (for Windows) and Amarra (for mac) which take computer playback to a different level (all of which can be achieved with the free Foobar if one knows how/what to do).

Seriously, put together a good PC (the C.A.P.S. is a great place to start), throw in decently good DAC like M1 DAC or better still if budget permits a W4S DAC-2 and I'm sure you will change your opinion about computer audio playback.

 

[square_wave]

The only way to compare cd playback and computer ( HDD ) playback so to A / B two dedicated and optimized sources custom build for each method in the same system.

Most of time, I have seen that folks who like a certain method will have an optimized setup for his preferred method and will try the other method by retrofitting gear into it.

This is a wrong way to test and will not give you any worthwhile conclusions.

 

[raz_737]

@musicbee

I have tried on my PC with foobar and audioquest USB cable, but as you said a good pc may be able to make a difference.

 

[jls001]

Sir,
Genuine Suggestion.
Stop buying TT's & Tone Arms & Breaking Cartridges.
Invest 40K in a Top End Computer.
Your Current Sound Card costs more than you CPU.

Get the Computer game right - it plays well, trust me....No 2 ways about it.

Sir,
Point noted.

I'm doing one thing at a time. Right now it is vinyl fever, taking up all my energy, thought, time and money.

I will certainly get a better PC, one that runs dead silent unlike the noisy box I have right now.

Yes, my sound card costs way more than the PC. After all the PC was something I salvaged from a friend who was about to gift it to the bhangarwala

 

[2chFreak]

I'm doing one thing at a time. Right now it is vinyl fever, taking up all my energy, thought, time and money.

doubt if you'll be able to come out of this to attend to the ailing PC ..

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

My usual comparison is between my own rips from my CDs (using EAC) with the CD itself.

A valid comparison

Another apple-to-orange comparison I indulge in is between vinyl and digital.

You have a great sound card: compare a "rip" of the vinyl with the vinyl itself. This is a valid comparison: often, comparison of CD with LP, is not.

Your Current Sound Card costs more than you CPU.

And so it should: it is the bit that counts!
[/QUOTE]

My experience tells me that this is not a problem with CDRip.Music played from computer is inferior to the same wave files played from a CD player.If your CD player has USB support or if you have any cheap DVD player with USB support,play the same wave files through USB and they sound much better than the computer.

This is what i observed from my experience.Please try it yourself and let us know your observations.

You are comparing two DACs: the DAC on your CD player, and the DAC on your sound card. In your experience, you may certainly have found the former to be superior: depending on the DACs, others will have the opposite result.

Sound played from the computer is inferior.

As I understand,you are comparing the sound from a computer to the CD played using your CD Player (not Cd drive).Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong

(OK: you could also be right, as just stated.)

@musicbee

I have tried on my PC with foobar and audioquest USB cable, but as you said a good pc may be able to make a difference.

I am not convinced that there is such a thing as "good" PC --- although there is certainly such a thing as bad one!

The bit that counts is the DAC: the point at which bits become something more akin to sound.

--- Some PCs just fail at delivering the bits to the DAC. This is not subtle, audiophile difference: it is crackles, pops and dropouts. Those machines are just bad.

--- Some machines may have too many annoyances such as fan/disk/electrical-buzz noises. They are bad, too, except perhaps for the office.

 

[musicbee]

@musicbee

I have tried on my PC with foobar and audioquest USB cable, but as you said a good pc may be able to make a difference.

Seriously (IMHO) the PC can be average and still deliver great SQ as long as you use an external DAC and/or at least an Asus Xonar (which is a decent enough DAC).

It is important is to "tweak" Foobar with the right DSP settings to color the SQ according to your preference.

Typically, people like/prefer a specific sonic signature which can be the signature of the DAC, amp, speakers, ICs, etc. The advantage with a PC & Foobar/any other player combo is that you can tweak your system to the exact sound signature you desire with the various DSP settings.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

as long as you use an external DAC

delete "external"

Really, it does not have to be, although the idea that it is "better" to put the sound interface outside the PC has indeed been around a long time. Certainly no harm in electing to do that. My current interface is external, but the fact of it being outside the box is not why I bought it. My older interface is a PCI card --- and it is superb.

 

[musicbee]

delete "external"

Really, it does not have to be, although the idea that it is "better" to put the sound interface outside the PC has indeed been around a long time. Certainly no harm in electing to do that. My current interface is external, but the fact of it being outside the box is not why I bought it. My older interface is a PCI card --- and it is superb.

External only because I have not heard many expensive sound cards. I have an Axus Essence STX and M1 DAC. I have heard a W4S DAC-2 (though I wish I had not).

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I have not heard many expensive sound cards.

I'd like to hear a few more but it is my regular moan that straightforward 2-in/2-out cards are quite rare. Moving upmarket in quality means paying for a lot of studio-specific stuff, and that makes the card much more expensive.

Hats off to Asus for developing for the home market.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Sir,
Genuine Suggestion.
Stop buying TT's & Tone Arms & Breaking Cartridges.
Invest 40K in a Top End Computer.
Your Current Sound Card costs more than you CPU.

Get the Computer game right - it plays well, trust me....No 2 ways about it.

Let the computer deal with high quality CD transports first and establish its position (supremacy ?), why rope in analog playback and make things more complicated ?

BTW, I agree that true hi-rez software is up there with good analog, however how much of the music we listen is available in "true" hi-rez format is questionable. Then there is a segment of audiophiles who are all into hi-rez (SACD, DVD-A, 24-192 downloads etc), ready to consume anything thats available in hi-rez and actually change their taste to suit this new collection they have. According to them the purpose of hifi is to listen to exotic stuff and enjoy extreme resolution. For normal stuff why pay so much, just buy any simple music system. So, it all depends on the mindset IMO.

 

[bhagwan]

Let the computer deal with high quality CD transports first and establish its position (supremacy ?), why rope in analog playback and make things more complicated ?

BTW, I agree that true hi-rez software is up there with good analog, however how much of the music we listen is available in "true" hi-rez format is questionable. Then there is a segment of audiophiles who are all into hi-rez (SACD, DVD-A, 24-192 downloads etc), ready to consume anything thats available in hi-rez and actually change their taste to suit this new collection they have. According to them the purpose of hifi is to listen to exotic stuff and enjoy extreme resolution. For normal stuff why pay so much, just buy any simple music system. So, it all depends on the mindset IMO.

I suppose I did not express myself correctly;
I shall try again.

Computer Audio is not about HiRez for me.
I simply commented on JS's Front End, cause he just broke his Cartridge a few days back & invested in a new tone arm etc.
What I wanted to say was - for 16/44.1 playback a good computer with a digital aes/ebu out into the AA Capitole will be a super solution.
In fact for most people, I just got a laptop HP ProBook 4430s @ Rs. 37/-K with 8GB of RAM & i5 [2nd gen] this is a perfect computer audio front end for a USB DAC & the cost is not prohibitive....

http://www.flipkart.com/hp-4430s-pr...HTJX&ref=45d24b3f-35ac-4def-b2d4-728ff4d15f5c

So play the Analogue Game / Play the Transport Game etc.
I am 100 % OK with it.
What ever floats your boat, however, I just made my comments from a cost to performance stand where if JS were to invest in a good Computer - his card could be put to use & the sound he would derive - would be good - imho.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I suppose I did not express myself correctly;
I shall try again.

Computer Audio is not about HiRez for me.
I simply commented on JS's Front End, cause he just broke his Cartridge a few days back & invested in a new tone arm etc.
What I wanted to say was - for 16/44.1 playback a good computer with a digital aes/ebu out into the AA Capitole will be a super solution.
In fact for most people, I just got a laptop HP ProBook 4430s @ Rs. 37/-K with 8GB of RAM & i5 [2nd gen] this is a perfect computer audio front end for a USB DAC & the cost is not prohibitive....

HP 4430s ProBook (2nd Gen Ci5/ 4GB/ 500GB/ DOS): Flipkart.com: Compare, Review HP Notebook

So play the Analogue Game / Play the Transport Game etc.
I am 100 % OK with it.
What ever floats your boat, however, I just made my comments from a cost to performance stand where if JS were to invest in a good Computer - his card could be put to use & the sound he would derive - would be good - imho.

Ok, but his AA capitole CDP has a Philips CDPro2M transport inside it which is working well, why then a computer ?

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Perhaps because his 16/44 & Hi-res music is 50x of his music in CDs?

 

[jls001]

Ok, but his AA capitole CDP has a Philips CDPro2M transport inside it which is working well, why then a computer ?

Good question

Actually some time soon after I got the Capitole, a nice sound card and a beat up PC fell (literally) into my laps. That, and the fact that the Capitole having all kinds of digital inputs, made it ripe to venture into this untested territory.

Plus the fact that I have been amassing for quite some time now a few terabytes of digital content in .WAV and .flac, made a music PC a very convenient source. Also, as already mentioned in another post, the PC is a very competent source, and not just a convenient source.

I admit I am yet to optimise it as a source. This is a future project. Will go pick Bhagwan's brain to get it right.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Good question

Actually some time soon after I got the Capitole, a nice sound card and a beat up PC fell (literally) into my laps. That, and the fact that the Capitole having all kinds of digital inputs, made it ripe to venture into this untested territory.

Plus the fact that I have been amassing for quite some time now a few terabytes of digital content in .WAV and .flac, made a music PC a very convenient source. Also, as already mentioned in another post, the PC is a very competent source, and not just a convenient source.

I admit I am yet to optimise it as a source. This is a future project. Will go pick Bhagwan's brain to get it right.

Now everything makes sense.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

a nice sound card and a beat up PC fell (literally) into my lap

Perfect! It is optimised already .

I find, however, that an enduring hobby can still be had fitting different fans, and controlling them in different ways, to make the thing as physically silent as possible. There's always something to mess with :lol:

(and I don't think I can do better than Noctua --- until somebody re-invents the fan.)