Panasonic P42V20 vs LG 42LH90

It is bad? In comparison to what?

Did you even read the title?

I guess all Samsung LCDs in his opinion are better than all LG LCDs (including LH90) and same with plasmas and it will remain that way forever (in his mind).

In LCDs, better is a relative word. LGs are better in so many things but black level and colour accuracy is not one of them. Show me a post which states anyting more than that. LH90 have better blacks but colour accuracy is not good.

In plasmas, Well Iam still stressing 2009 plasmas and have not a single comment againt PK550 as I did not demo. I demoed the LG PJ series and posted the report stating it is much better than 2009 LG plasmas and C450 has NO improvement over B450. You are welcome to point to a post where I mentioned otherwise.
 
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Blasto,
Do read your own posts and you would know why I (& some other members in this forum) think you are biased.
You wrote:
PQ60 is bad.
LH90 is better but still bad.
In another recent thread (that was PK550 vs C550) you wrote:
BLASTO said:
If C550 is anywhere close to B550 in performance and with the added USB movie playback functionality, I would say it is well worth the 75k. And samsung seldom downgrades the TVs in PQ in the recent history.
... w/o seeing either model. I saw people posted a few reviews of these two models which in general were favouring PK550. But I didn't see you making any comment on those.

Yes, the title of this thread is V20 vs. LH90. But do you have to say PQ60 is bad. LH90 is better but still bad. to make that point?
Like you I have also said, very clearly, V20 should be surely a better model than the LH90 in terms of PQ. Its just that the way you have been writing your posts in various threads you give the impression that you are hell bent on degrading every single LG LCD/plasma and promoting Samsung LCD/plasma. If that is just a wrong perception on you, then just ignore my comments and keep posting whatever
 
Going by specs, Sammy C550 and C450 are the same, except for the resolution. And C450 is considered an average performer. So, theoretically, G10 should easily surpass C550's picture quality. Why do you think G10 and C550 are in nearly the same league ?

Hi.
I am an average user, watching daily SD (including majorly sports content), weekly movies, and approx half an hour a day of HD content.

They are nearly in the same league for the above requirement. Infact C550 has better SD processing.
Also, I mentioned their pros and cons match up. Better SD processing/Colour reproduction in C550 vs better black levels/Brightness of G10, Raising black levels of G10 vs IR suseptability of C550 etc puts them still in the same league IMO.

In absolute terms, yes G10 will easily surpass C550 for 1080p and other HD content and in horizontal motion handling.

LG LH90 is one of the very few affordable THX certified displays available in India. EDIT: Checked with LG India website and manual for LH90. THX is mentioned nowhere. Owners could confirm if it has THX mode or not. It will have the usual LCD viewing angle problem, but apart from that it should be quite good. What makes you say it's bad ?

It has no THX mode in india.
It will have viewing angle, colour accuracy and motion related issues compared to V20.
I assumed the discussion is around the thread title. It has caused confusion to another member also. All 'bad' in my post is in comparison to V20 inline with the thread title. LH90 is a very good option compared to the other LCDs around.

Considering C450 and C550 are similar except for resolution, it makes sense to get C450 instead because, we all know resolution isn't really important for even 50" TVs. C550, I think is the least favorable choice.

Amazon.com: Samsung PN50C550 50-Inch 1080p Plasma HDTV (Black): Electronics

Amazon.com: Samsung PN42C450 42-Inch 720p Plasma HDTV (Black):

Samsung PS50C450 Review at AVForums.com

Agreed. But the price difference between them is around 8k and it can give better PQ for 1080i/p due to absence of downscaler (though no viewing distance benefits). Also a 50" is seldom upgraded for want of bigger size so it is going to stay around when 1080i/p becomes mainstream. In that sense 8k upfront 'may be' a good investment. Further the starter of the thread is interested in only FHD even in 42" (given his inclination towards V20 and LH90) which prompted me to point to C550.
 
Blasto,
Do read your own posts and you would know why I (& some other members in this forum) think you are biased.
You wrote:


PQ60 is bad.
LH90 is better but still bad.

I have already mentioned that it is in comparison to V20 in accordance with the thread title.

I included PQ60 because that was a reply by nanu comparing PQ60 with V20. That is when PQ60 and LH90 came into picture.

In another recent thread (that was PK550 vs C550) you wrote:


If C550 is anywhere close to B550 in performance and with the added USB movie playback functionality, I would say it is well worth the 75k. And samsung seldom downgrades the TVs in PQ in the recent history.

And that is biased because?
I think you are overlooking the 'If'.

... w/o seeing either model. I saw people posted a few reviews of these two models which in general were favouring PK550. But I didn't see you making any comment on those.

What comment do you want me to post when I have not even seen these TVs myself? I think it is a mistake only if I comment!

Yes, the title of this thread is V20 vs. LH90. But do you have to say PQ60 is bad. LH90 is better but still bad. to make that point?

Come on. Read the post again. It is in reply to Nanu's comment that states,

+1 for the Panasonic V20. There is no comparison between my LG 42PQ60 and the Panasonic v20. Though this is not the LG model you are comparing but still.

He owns both the TVs and knows what he is talking about. (Read his thread).

This is when I compared PQ60 and LH90 vs V20. Not with the intention of degrading anything. I request you read again.
 
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What is the price difference? I have seen bargain price of 42LH90 model at lowest at around 60k on this forum. While harty has got 65.5k for 42V20. So from price point of view both are reasonable to compare.

Contrast ratio : 50L :1 in both
Response time : 2ms in 42LH90 and 0.001 ms in 42V20
XV color : No in 42LH90 , yes in 42V20
Deep Color : 10 bit in 42LH90, 12 bit in 42V20
wifi, internet, skype : No in 42LH90, yes in 42V20
Bluetooth: Yes in 42LH90, No in 42V20
Panel: IPS advance panel in LG, G13 NeoPDP panel in panasonic

Please correct me if I am wrong on specs comparison or any big specs different I have missed here.
 
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It has no THX mode in india.
It will have viewing angle, colour accuracy and motion related issues compared to V20.

Indian V20 too doesn't have THX mode. What makes you think LH90 will have bad color accuracy compared to V20 ?
 
Indian V20 too doesn't have THX mode. What makes you think LH90 will have bad color accuracy compared to V20 ?

Irrespective of THX mode, LH90's skin colour and red/yellow reproduction is not on par with V10 (which I assume applies to V20). Particluarly Red/Yellow/Orange is a tad lesser to samsung 6 series.

Do a demo with sun rise/sunset and chennai super kings match side by side (or even seperate) to find out. ;)
 
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Irrespective of THX mode, LH90's skin colour and red/yellow reproduction is not on par with V10 (which I assume applies to V20). Particluarly Red/Yellow/Orange is a tad lesser to samsung 6 series.

Do a demo with sun rise/sunset and chennai super kings match side by side (or even seperate) to find out. ;)

I'm sure you didn't use a calibrator or even a calibration disc before comparing the two. And going by your comparison example, I can also say V10 oversaturates reds and LH90 accurately reproduces it; you simply choose to say V10 is better. Comparison with a reference monitor is the right way to observe color accuracy. This, we can't afford to do.

And coming to C550 once again, it's a known fact that C450 oversaturates green. I, from my experience of owning B450, can surely say that it's impossible to get neutral color from it. You'll either have a reddish looking picture or a greenish looking picture; I prefer to keep the picture reddish.

B450's black levels (which are just average to start with) deteriorate greatly with increase in ambient light. C550 shouldn't be any better. Considering the OP has a french window in his room, C550's daylight performance will be much poorer than even LH90. So, to say it in your way, C550 is terrible.
 
I'm sure you didn't use a calibrator or even a calibration disc before comparing the two. And going by your comparison example, I can also say V10 oversaturates reds and LH90 accurately reproduces it; you simply choose to say V10 is better. Comparison with a reference monitor is the right way to observe color accuracy. This, we can't afford to do.

I see this calibrator argument surfacing time and again.

With knowledge of how the picture looks in a good CRT TV placed in the same shop as reference, or with preior memory of how it looked in your CRT, you can infer the colour reproduction capability. Thats how I actually did it. I don't need a caliberator to say if the colour in the TV is red or yellow maybe for complex colours, yes.

And coming to C550 once again, it's a known fact that C450 oversaturates green. I, from my experience of owning B450, can surely say that it's impossible to get neutral color from it. You'll either have a reddish looking picture or a greenish looking picture; I prefer to keep the picture reddish.

Do you think B450 oversaturates green? 'cause I saw the C450 and it looked very much similar to B450. And I dont see a green push in the TV. There is a bit of red push which makes the picture warmer. In my experience it does not interfere with the colour reproduction of other colours.


B450's black levels (which are just average to start with) deteriorate greatly with increase in ambient light. C550 shouldn't be any better. Considering the OP has a french window in his room, C550's daylight performance will be much poorer than even LH90. So, to say it in your way, C550 is terrible.

Whats your point by the way? I have asked him to consider plasmas only if he is going for curtains for the french window.

You are welcome to suggest the set you prefer to the thread starter. I dont understand why you want to convince me that C550 is terrible or otherwise. I haven't demoed it nor am planning to buy it. I just asked him to demo this as an option before he finalises.

If you feel B450's black levels are average to start with, C450/C550 might not be for you!
 
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Thanks to all the folks who replied. After reviewing my choices, looks like its a no-brainer that at same price points, V20 is hands down winner.
However, couple of posters have introduced a third angle to this. LG 50PK550. And today Dishtv launched TruHD, which over the coming year, could alter my viewing content significantly tilting towards HD. The 50PK550 seems to be available in the range of 65k.
With that in mind, would it make more sense to go for the extra 8", while compromising on glare/reflection and black levels?
Can I change the thread title? :)
 
Thanks to all the folks who replied. After reviewing my choices, looks like its a no-brainer that at same price points, V20 is hands down winner.
However, couple of posters have introduced a third angle to this. LG 50PK550. And today Dishtv launched TruHD, which over the coming year, could alter my viewing content significantly tilting towards HD. The 50PK550 seems to be available in the range of 65k.
With that in mind, would it make more sense to go for the extra 8", while compromising on glare/reflection and black levels?
Can I change the thread title? :)

You haven't mentioned your viewing distance anywhere.
Whats the max and min distance you'll view the TV from?
 
I see this calibrator argument surfacing time and again.

With knowledge of how the picture looks in a good CRT TV placed in the same shop as reference, or with preior memory of how it looked in your CRT, you can infer the colour reproduction capability. Thats how I actually did it. I don't need a caliberator to say if the colour in the TV is red or yellow maybe for complex colours, yes.

Man, be honest. You probably haven't really done this and you're making this up for argument's sake. Even if you really did this, it's only another totally flawed way to check for color accuracy.

Do you think B450 oversaturates green? 'cause I saw the C450 and it looked very much similar to B450. And I dont see a green push in the TV. There is a bit of red push which makes the picture warmer. In my experience it does not interfere with the colour reproduction of other colours.

If you feel B450's black levels are average to start with, C450/C550 might not be for you!

Not just me but a THX professional calibrator thinks C450 oversaturates green and has average black levels -
Samsung PS50C450 Review at AVForums.com

Whats your point by the way? I have asked him to consider plasmas only if he is going for curtains for the french window.

You are welcome to suggest the set you prefer to the thread starter. I dont understand why you want to convince me that C550 is terrible or otherwise. I haven't demoed it nor am planning to buy it. I just asked him to demo this as an option before he finalises.

I'm not here to suggest models to the OP. In fact, I honestly think it's useless to ask for buying advice in Hifivision. More often than not, people simply suggest the brands/technologies they own without even considering the OP's real requirements. (You, for example, have a strong preference for Samsung. I've seen you suggest C550 in many threads and even claim it's 90% as good as VT20 even though you've not even seen either model yet.)

Seriously, I'm posting in buying advice threads only to have fun pointing out the invalidity of the 'expert' claims made there. :) And, it's probably useful for the forum too.
 
I'm not here to suggest models to the OP. In fact, I honestly think it's useless to ask for buying advice in Hifivision. More often than not, people simply suggest the brands/technologies they own without even considering the OP's real requirements. (You, for example, have a strong preference for Samsung. I've seen you suggest C550 in many threads and even claim it's 90% as good as VT20 even though you've not even seen either model yet.)

Seriously, I'm posting in buying advice threads only to have fun pointing out the invalidity of the 'expert' claims made there. :) And, it's probably useful for the forum too.

May I know why you think so?

Being a super intelligent guy yourself why did you ask for buying advice here?
http://www.hifivision.com/television/8975-best-hdtvs-dvd-viewing-gaming.html
and ended up with one of the suggested TVs?

Further, You weren't unhappy with the performance either and was highly satisfied with the TV!
http://www.hifivision.com/television/9969-lcd-vs-plasma-fact-vs-myth-14.html#post141731

Then realised that, due to your negligence, ended up with a used and burnt in TV!
http://www.hifivision.com/televisio...ce-ir-am-not-sure-what-do-now.html#post124843

Which is not replaced by samsung/dealer for more than 2 months now.
http://www.hifivision.com/televisio...-ir-am-not-sure-what-do-now-4.html#post145990

If I may ask, where is the mistake in the TV suggestion here? You are piseed off by the dealer and samsung guys and should be showing your anger towards them instead. You are barking at the wrong place.

Be informed that you were suggested to demo X10 and B450 and YOU chose the B450 after the demo.

Meanwhile, people suggest the brand they own if it satisfies the buyer critera because They selected it after going through all options present.

While I am sad seeing your ordeal, you should honestly be showing your discontent elsewhere. Take a glass of water and go to sleep! I may not answer any of your queries from here!
 
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May I know why you think so?

Being a super intelligent guy yourself why did you ask for buying advice here?
http://www.hifivision.com/television/8975-best-hdtvs-dvd-viewing-gaming.html
and ended up with one of the suggested TVs?

Further, You weren't unhappy with the performance either and was highly satisfied with the TV!
http://www.hifivision.com/television/9969-lcd-vs-plasma-fact-vs-myth-14.html#post141731

Then realised that, due to your negligence, ended up with a used and burnt in TV!
http://www.hifivision.com/televisio...ce-ir-am-not-sure-what-do-now.html#post124843

Which is not replaced by samsung/dealer for more than 2 months now.
http://www.hifivision.com/televisio...-ir-am-not-sure-what-do-now-4.html#post145990

If I may ask, where is the mistake in the TV suggestion here? You are piseed off by the dealer and samsung guys and should be showing your anger towards them instead. You are barking at the wrong place.

Be informed that you were suggested to demo X10 and B450 and YOU chose the B450 after the demo.

Meanwhile, people suggest the brand they own if it satisfies the buyer critera because They selected it after going through all options present.

While I am sad seeing your ordeal, you should honestly be showing your discontent elsewhere. Take a glass of water and go to sleep! I may not answer any of your queries from here!

Hehe! It did take me 2 months' time of reading posts here to realize it's useless to ask for buying advice here. Now, it's time for me to buy my next TV and am not asking for advice. Rather, I am doing my own research.

That I got a defective piece was something good. It was more like a free, 2.5 month 'Understand HDTVs' course. :) Of course, I have no reason to be angry at Samsung. Even in my post about my problem, I have carefully worded that "In my case, Samsung customer service was poor. They expect customers to run behind them to avail service", and not 'barked' at Samsung.

I have nothing personal with you. I am just expecting rational clarifications for your claims like "LG LH90's color accuracy is worser than Panasonic V1's" and "Samsung C550 is 90% as good as Panasonic VT20."
 
May I know why you think so?
If I may ask, where is the mistake in the TV suggestion here?

Your suggestion was Samsung C550 to a person who says he has a 7x6 french window in his room, close to the TV's position. In a sunny place like India a 7x6 french window will flood the room with light even if it's curtained. I have a curtained 5x4 window in my room and that significantly deteriorates my B450's black levels; plus I'll see my reflection on screen during dark scenes. Night scenes in games become completely unplayable during daytime. But then these issues don't bother me coz I rarely use the TV during daytime. But these issues will certainly annoy the OP, given his viewing conditions. So, your suggestion that the OP should consider Samsung C550 is an obvious mistake.

Seriously, do I have to explain so much? Isn't it a world known fact that plasma's are not suitable for brightly lit rooms (unless there's a very good AR filter.)
 
. In a sunny place like India a 7x6 french window will flood the room with light even if it's curtained.

Not if you are living in an apartment and located on lower floors. As far as I have seen in Banaglore, unless you live on higher floors, you would not get enough sunlight.
 
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Hehe! It did take me 2 months' time of reading posts here to realize it's useless to ask for buying advice here. Now, it's time for me to buy my next TV and am not asking for advice. Rather, I am doing my own research.

Hello AV aficionados!

I am planning to buy an HDTV soon. Main uses would be,

1. PS3 gaming (almost all the great PS3 games have a native resolution of 720p)
2. DVD viewing (have a big collection that I want to rewatch in the new TV)
3. Occasional Blu ray viewing.

I will not watch TV programmes in the HDTV. My viewing distance would be 8-10 feet.

And now to my questions,

1. What resolution is good for my usage? 720p or 1080p ?
2. What screen size is good for my usage?

I, with my limited knowledge, think that 42" 720p plasma TV should suit my purposes. Please let me know if there are better options.



He he.. It took 2 months for me to realise that you are an opportunist!

Let me know what you end up buying after your so called 'research'. If it is anything different than what is suggested for the above requirement, let me know why you chose it instead. Keep in mind you are to choose only from the options availble 2.5 months ago when you got the original TV. The new ones may be entising but they were NOT available when you got the TV!

You are just an opportunist trying to capitlise on the new releases which happened AFTER you bought the TV. Simple.

That I got a defective piece was something good. It was more like a free, 2.5 month 'Understand HDTVs' course. :) Of course, I have no reason to be angry at Samsung. Even in my post about my problem, I have carefully worded that "In my case, Samsung customer service was poor. They expect customers to run behind them to avail service", and not 'barked' at Samsung.

You barking at samsung or not is none of my business. I don't even care. I asked you not to bark in HFV in this thread as the buying suggestion given to you is correct and HFV is not responsible for you getting a defective piece!

I have nothing personal with you. I am just expecting rational clarifications for your claims like "LG LH90's color accuracy is worser than Panasonic V1's" and "Samsung C550 is 90% as good as Panasonic VT20."

You first clarify why you are unhppy with your TV barring the IR given you have praised its performance in more than one place place before entering into the IR saga.
 
Your suggestion was Samsung C550 to a person who says he has a 7x6 french window in his room, close to the TV's position. In a sunny place like India a 7x6 french window will flood the room with light even if it's curtained.

I have a curtained 5x4 window in my room and that significantly deteriorates my B450's black levels; plus I'll see my reflection on screen during dark scenes. Night scenes in games become completely unplayable during daytime. But then these issues don't bother me coz I rarely use the TV during daytime. But these issues will certainly annoy the OP, given his viewing conditions. So, your suggestion that the OP should consider Samsung C550 is an obvious mistake.

Seriously, do I have to explain so much? Isn't it a world known fact that plasma's are not suitable for brightly lit rooms (unless there's a very good AR filter.)

I have a french window right opposite to my TV and it is curtained. Many people have demoed the setup and end up buying the TV inspite of that. There are further more people in the forum who are happy with curtained window for morning time viewing.

I really want to know what you end up buying as your next TV for all the the loose talk you make.
 
well i too have lots of windows towards the right of the tv,a total size of 44"H and 75"Wide no matter what the light still enters even after thick curtains.CRT or plasma doesn't work and the only a Matte screen lcd is good,which again defeats the slight glare with brightness.
 
I have a french window right opposite to my TV and it is curtained. Many people have demoed the setup and end up buying the TV inspite of that. There are further more people in the forum who are happy with curtained window for morning time viewing.

I really want to know what you end up buying as your next TV for all the the loose talk you make.

:)

Pictures speak louder than words. Here's my B450's black levels in perfectly dark conditions. For reference are placed my 3 year old Sony VAIO' LCD and my new Dell's LED displays. I'm displaying a 1280x720, completely black image fullscreen in all three.

mg7990.jpg


As you can see, the black levels are average and only slightly better than the inferior laptop LCD displays.

Now, comparing the three in daylight. Today, btw, is an overcast day in Chennai and my windows are curtained and south-facing and there's an apartment building right next to the windows, which blocks some sunlight. Displaying the same 1280x720 black image,

mg7994.jpg


Now, the inferior laptop displays actually show better black levels than B450.

Black level is one thing I can show you through pictures. There are other problems too, like non-neutral colors, color dithering and sometimes flickering (both due to the same reason, PWM method used in plasmas.) and temporary image retention (because of which, moving white objects on a black background, create black trails) that degrades pictures quality on B450. I can't show you these problems through pictures. You could download a color spectrum sheet to check the PWM issues. You could check rolling credits to check for the image retention issue. Once you know what these problems are you'll start noticing them while watching movies too.

NOTES: All three displays are kept at usual viewing settings. B450, if you wanna know is kept at brightness-50, contrast-85, cell light-10, gamma-0. These settings were optimized for darkest black while not losing black detail, by calibrating with slides I use to calibrate monitors, Pixar HT calibration and of course tens of HD material.

I've taken the pain to click these pictures to make a point. The point being, budget plasmas do NOT provide image quality on par with more expensive plasmas. In bright rooms, budget LCDs might provide better picture quality than these plasmas, albeit with a viewing angle problem. A good reason to choose a budget plasma would be when one wants a big screen for a small price, while compromising on image quality.

Blasto, you take the pains to dig through my 3 month old posts but why is that you aren't quoting posts where I've actually said I'm dissatisfied with my TV's performance and that I'm pissed off with Samsung ? You're just imagining I said all this. If you want to remain oblivious to B450's weaknesses, have fun enjoying your TV and keep your 'expert' opinions to yourself. And argue like a civilized man with rational arguments and stop using phrases like " 'bark' elsewhere".
 
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