PC playback as an alternative to CD Players

[awedeophile]

Hi,

This discussion started on another (For Sale) thread and hence I thought I'd start a new discussion dedicated to this topic here.

I am off the view that PC playback if implemented properly using an external USB/Firewire to SPDIF Converter to a DAC can be as good or better than a CD player.

Also, the convienice of having your entire collection nicely sorted in one place is fantastic.

Woule be great to have other's views on this..

 

[rikhav]

Convenience wise there is no denying that it can be the best way to listen to your music hassle free
But as far as my experience goes I was not happy with using PC as source. As Mr. Shanti has pointed out it will require proper selection of PC configuration, softwares and settings
For me doing all that is a bigger hassle and so for me a CDP works better as of now even if i need to change discs
The most important thing is to accommodate a PC with your hifi setup. It adds to clutter of wires already present and the cabinet fan noise is irritating. Ofcourse you can go for hi-end power supplies, cup cooling fans and system fans which make minimum noise. But then it will still make some noise

 

[bhagwan]

I am off the view that PC playback if implemented properly using an external USB/Firewire to SPDIF Converter to a DAC can be as good or better than a CD player.

Also, the convienice of having your entire collection nicely sorted in one place is fantastic.

Woule be great to have other's views on this..

I am on the same page;
Computer as a 'transport' is better than a spinning CD.

I agree with all that is written above.

Computer Audio is the way to go - just implement it correctly.

 

[hemantwaghe]

I am on the same page;
Computer as a 'transport' is better than a spinning CD.

I agree with all that is written above.

Computer Audio is the way to go - just implement it correctly.

@ Shanti

are you using your dac with USB output or with Onboard SPDIF?

also don't mind sharing/suggesting a good specificatiosn ( like processor , MB , Ram, Model Nos, specific case ( for silent Operation 0 ETC?

 

[rallynut]

as shanti mentioned,i too am of the same opinion,but 'if/when' setup correctly.

i use a laptop with foobar2k and am so hugely satisfied with the quality of the sonic output of flac/mp3 through my chain.have even played a few redbooks on it,and it ALWAYS amazes me as to how good my rig sounds.true,am at the budget end of things here ,but having heard quite a few good(more expensive) setups,i have every reason to be proud .for a reference,i compare the sonics to the CA DVD99,which by no means is a slouch as a redbook cd player :indifferent14:.all this IMHO.cheers

 

[bhagwan]

@ Shanti

are you using your dac with USB output or with Onboard SPDIF?

also don't mind sharing/suggesting a good specificatiosn ( like processor , MB , Ram, Model Nos, specific case ( for silent Operation 0 ETC?

My CPU is 'simple'

Some ASUS Board.
Windows XP
Ram
6TB HDD
Foobar

The output is via asio on USB to a 'upsampler'
The D 2 D takes the 16/44.1 & upsamples it to DSD & sends it to a DAC.
A master Clock 'syncs' all the components.
The D2A [DAC] drives my tube amps direct.

The CPU Box is Antec.
No Mouse
No Keyboard
No Screen
etc.

It just acts like a transport & sits amongst all other audio gear on a rack....
I use i-touch to control & play music. Software is Foobar. Buffering is done on the RAM in the Computer.
There is no noise etc.

 

[bhagwan]

as shanti mentioned,i too am of the same opinion,but 'if/when' setup correctly.

i use a laptop with foobar2k and am so hugely satisfied with the quality of the sonic output of flac/mp3 through my chain.have even played a few redbooks on it,and it ALWAYS amazes me as to how good my rig sounds.true,am at the budget end of things here ,but having heard quite a few good(more expensive) setups,i have every reason to be proud .for a reference,i compare the sonics to the CA DVD99,which by no means is a slouch as a redbook cd player :indifferent14:.all this IMHO.cheers

I do not have or play any MP3.

Most of my music is Wave [older] & Flac [newer]

I have 6 TB of HDD & 4.5 of it seems to be full.
It is a 'lot' of music & should last me a while.

A dear friend has built a 'portable' CD Ripping Machine. That will come home - soon, so I will start to rip a lot of my music [CD to flac] that has not been ripped earlier....[The machine is Linux based, I am told] !

 

[Dr.Bass]

Awedophile, thanks for creating this thread. You could also give a link to your sale thread so that people can read the previous discussion as well.

Quoting a posting made by Shanti on the other thread

Originally Posted by Dr.Bass View Post
I am from the opposite camp. Here is an interesting comparison:
PC audio versus CD player

This is Comp V/S ML CD Player.

I did the 'test' & 'comparison' with
Meridian 808i.3 [best 1 box player in the world - Stereophile & TAS]
Also used an EMM Labs 2 box player.

The Computer was as good, if not better.

I have 5K ++ CD's & yet I have moved to PC based playback.....

When a person like me is playing an all out assault game on the digital playback front [after having used 10, ++ 10K $ Players] I would not 'jump' to the PC wagon without my DD in place.... Just my humble observation...
__________________

Hi Shanti, I have never said or felt that you have made a wrong decision. I am also 101% sure that you have done a lot comparison and evaluations before finally sticking to PC based transport.

All I am saying is, for your ears PC sounded better or as good as a CD transport but there is still a vast majority who prefer the sound from a CD transport and that includes me.

Also I would love to know if someone has compared the PC transport to a top end dedicated CD transport like a 47 Labs, Esoteric or CEC.

 

[sidvee]

I am also of the opinion the WAV files are not only indistinguishable from CD but also in many cases superior. All my equipment has been decidedly midfi - ipod - wadia170i - dacs (benchmark/MF V8), but am sure if I were to step up to a nice DAC and a decent CPU it would sound great.
Cheers
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Awedophile, thanks for creating this thread. You could also give a link to your sale thread so that people can read the previous discussion as well.

Quoting a posting made by Shanti on the other thread



Hi Shanti, I have never said or felt that you have made a wrong decision. I am also 101% sure that you have done a lot comparison and evaluations before finally sticking to PC based transport.

All I am saying is, for your ears PC sounded better or as good as a CD transport but there is still a vast majority who prefer the sound from a CD transport and that includes me.

Also I would love to know if someone has compared the PC transport to a top end dedicated CD transport like a 47 Labs, Esoteric or CEC.

I though the discussion was based on using the PC as a storage device for music files and played back as such. Am not sure I would use a PC as a standalone CD transport though. Pardon my misunderstanding.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[bhagwan]

Also I would love to know if someone has compared the PC transport to a top end dedicated CD transport like a 47 Labs, Esoteric or CEC.

No Sir.

I tested on EMM Labs & Meridian.

No other....

 

[awedeophile]

My PC is also self made. Configuration is:

-Asus Motherboard
-4GB RAM
-Windows 7
-Antec P180 Silent Cabinet
-Core2Duo CPU
-Arctic Cooling CPU cooler
-USB PCI card

No keyboard, mouse, screen. Only things connected are my network cable and USB converter. PC is placed 4 feet from other equipment to avoid RF/EMI issues.

Running Foobar set for Wasapi output on USB. USB goes to a M2Tech EVO USB to SPDIF converter. SPDIF to DAC. EVO supports rates up to 24/192 so I can play hi-rez files direct.

Everything is controlled either through my IPOD Touch or Laptop using windows Remote Desktop.

All CD's are ripped to FLAC using 0 compression and no filtering/dsp, etc. I prefer FLAC to WAV as it's easier to tag files. Using the 'ABX comparator' in Foobar I was unable to distinguish between the same file ripped on WAV and FLAC.

Presently using my CARY SACD 306 Pro as a DAC which is on sale. Upgrading to a dedicated top end DAC.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I though the discussion was based on using the PC as a storage device for music files and played back as such. Am not sure I would use a PC as a standalone CD transport though. Pardon my misunderstanding.
Cheers,
Sid

Sid, when I say PC as transport I mean PC + accessories substituting a CD transport. So, basically we store all the files in the Hard disk and play it back (accessories meaning USB-SPDIF converter and anything else that precedes the DAC stage).

 

[ajinkya]

All CD's are ripped to FLAC using 0 compression and no filtering/dsp, etc. I prefer FLAC to WAV as it's easier to tag files. Using the 'ABX comparator' in Foobar I was unable to distinguish between the same file ripped on WAV and FLAC.

If you're not using any compression, you're missing out on the most useful property of flac (aside from tagging) - smaller file size.

And there will be no difference between flac and wav, since its the same data in two different formats. It's like saying that one is pleasantly surprised that a Word doc and a zipped Word doc had the same content- they have to.

 

[awedeophile]

If you're not using any compression, you're missing out on the most useful property of flac (aside from tagging) - smaller file size.

I don't use compression as I find seek times faster without compression. Must be something to do with Foobar first having to decompress the file and then play it. Also, I'm guessing it saves on CPU usage.

It's like saying that one is pleasantly surprised that a Word doc and a zipped Word doc had the same content- they have to.

Is flac a compressed (zipped) wav file (as per your analogy)? I am aware Flac and Wav are two different formats. I was simply saying they sound the same to me. Whether they have to or not, I dont know.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I am off the view that PC playback if implemented properly using an external USB/Firewire to SPDIF Converter to a DAC can be as good or better than a CD player.

If it is a good enough sound card or audio interface, then you won't need any external DAC. You should be happy with the DAC in the unit itself.

When I bought my RME card some years ago, the analogue output to my Cyrus amp gave a much better sound than the Cyrus CD player I was using at the time.

If you want to use an external DAC, then why not just feed it with the digital output of your motherboard, assuming that it has a digital out.

 

[bhagwan]

If it is a good enough sound card or audio interface, then you won't need any external DAC. You should be happy with the DAC in the unit itself.

When I bought my RME card some years ago, the analogue output to my Cyrus amp gave a much better sound than the Cyrus CD player I was using at the time.

If you want to use an external DAC, then why not just feed it with the digital output of your motherboard, assuming that it has a digital out.

Sir,

This is exactly what I do;

Digital out from the CPU - direct into DAC.

The computer is just a 'transport' !

p.s. For most Mid Fi set ups, a good quality sound card on board that gives 2 channel analogue out too may be a great vfm solution...
This might work for players up to 50 K or 100 K [cd player i.e.]......

It is only when the stakes need to be raised that an external DAC is used....

 

[bhagwan]

If you're not using any compression, you're missing out on the most useful property of flac (aside from tagging) - smaller file size.

And there will be no difference between flac and wav, since its the same data in two different formats. It's like saying that one is pleasantly surprised that a Word doc and a zipped Word doc had the same content- they have to.

Sir,

I use flac only for tagging.

HDD space is 'free' now.
2 TB cost Rs. 6/- K [approx]

SQ is the most important thing for me. Size is the last of my worries...

 

[sidvee]

Sid, when I say PC as transport I mean PC + accessories substituting a CD transport. So, basically we store all the files in the Hard disk and play it back (accessories meaning USB-SPDIF converter and anything else that precedes the DAC stage).

Thanks Dr.Bass - I am on the same page now.
I also agree with Shanti - Storage space has come down significantly in price so one can consider uncompressed files.
Cheers
Sid

 

[awedeophile]

If it is a good enough sound card or audio interface, then you won't need any external DAC. You should be happy with the DAC in the unit itself.

When I bought my RME card some years ago, the analogue output to my Cyrus amp gave a much better sound than the Cyrus CD player I was using at the time.

If you want to use an external DAC, then why not just feed it with the digital output of your motherboard, assuming that it has a digital out.

I have not come across any good soundcard that can compare to a good external DAC, hence I take USB out, convert to SPDIF and then into a DAC.