PC playback as an alternative to CD Players

[Kevian]

If you get a chance, please try it. It was a nightmare for me. Doesn't help that my old laptop runs a BroadCom chip that doesn't get along well with Linux. I spent a couple of days blacklisting the chip config files so I could go online wirelessly and start the actual installations.

OT: How is wirelessly not a dictionary recognized word?

You need to figure out what architecture family you have. There are i286, i386, i486, i586, etc. and there is x86 family. So each architecture requires a different deb file for installation. You cannot try x86 deb on i586 architecture. Usually all old peripherals are well supported by ubuntu repositories and installation is automatic. Can't understand why a simple old chip is causing trouble.

 

[cmsajith]

Duplicate post

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It is possible that one may get so entangled in trying to unravel a new technology, that one looses sight of the original goal.

Which should be:

"A simple, effective set up for listening to high fidelity music".

It is possible that one may get entangled in misunderstanding technology.

rule one: keep it simple.
rule two: do not make assumptions.

True, and a custom Linux gear for audio/video transport provides the same and far better then any so called user friendly platform could.

Do contribute! This "PC playback" in the thread title surely does not have to mean only "Microsoft Windows PC playback?"

 

[Bluu]

You need to figure out what architecture family you have. There are i286, i386, i486, i586, etc. and there is x86 family. So each architecture requires a different deb file for installation. You cannot try x86 deb on i586 architecture. Usually all old peripherals are well supported by ubuntu repositories and installation is automatic. Can't understand why a simple old chip is causing trouble.

I'm not a very technical guy so what you said made little sense to me. However, can you explain the part about installations being automatic. I found the repositories for everything but I had to manually download installation setup files for everything.

I would be very interested in giving Ubuntu another shot since a lot of Win related problems being discussed earlier (anti-virus, junk) etc can be disregarded, but only if I don't have to run behind each and every driver for each peripheral.

Also, how do I find out my architecture family? Where do I get the best Ubuntu (read compatible) from?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

All you need to know is whether your chip is Intel or AMD. I'm sure you made that decision when you bought the machine. Windows should tell you: My computer-->properties.

Then you need to decide between 32-bit and 64-bit. I suspect that 32-bit still has the widest compatibility but I'm happy to be corrected on that one. From that point on, the Ubuntu download page is easy to follow.

There is a choice between 10.04 and 11.04. 10.04 has an interface with which any Windows user will feel at home. 11.04 is, err, different (but you make it look and act "classic"). You can also delve deeper into the site for the most recent cutting-edge may-be-buggy versions.

I use Virtual machines to set up different Linuxes (and XP) just to take a look, but let me warn against evaluating the audio performance of virtual machines: once passed through the VM emulation back to the host system and thus to the hardware, the quality is very poor. That may change, in the future, with direct ISA-bus support from within a VM, but it doesn't do it now. (Don't know about USB audio devices)

Having burnt a DVD, you can boot from it and have a taster (live-CD) without actually installing.

 

[Bluu]

Thanks Thad! IIRC, these are the very steps I followed earlier. Maybe I should try it again and take things slower. Waiting for a backup laptop to become available so I can try all this

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

How it works: Linux audio explained

This, I think, gives a good idea of why I'm not expecting to see (or post!) any Linux-is-the-best-for-Audio threads in the near future. It's just too messy.

Is it really that bad? Well, no*, because, unless you are very unlucky on hardware support, you can install Ubuntu, plug in your speakers, and play music . You do not have to know or be able to follow any of the stuff in that article, any more than we have to understand the tcp/ip stack to browse the net. The casual listener, in fact, may be better off with Linux than the enthusiast: the enthusiast is just bound to be tripping over some of that mess sooner or later.

I live in hope.



*(Oh, unless you have a firewire device, in which case it is that bad, and worse!)

 

[Kevian]

Bluu,

Thad has already answered your questions and thanks to him on that.

Thad,

Thank you for that Linux Audio Link. Longtime ago, I met an ABCD music composer of commercials/advertisements at ASCAP during superbowl in USA. He had this professional studio where he composes his music, I vaguely remember him telling me, he uses JACK for fine listening, reviewing etc on his Linux sustem. I tried JACK on my Ubuntu later, I failed miserably and gave up. Your link has just revived my interest in JACK. I'll try it in my leisure and update this thread.

Regards,
Kevian

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I can understand a professional getting it together with Jack. There is some great music studio software for Linux, and, for a pro, it could be well worth while to spend the time tweaking those settings and getting it set up right. Honestly, I can't be bothered. My boxed Audiofire is a monument to that.

Do post your experiences, though. Might even inspire me to be bothered

(Firewire support is apparently better in 11.04 (But Unity is for for those who want their PCs to look like a 3-yr-old's toy))

 

[bhagwan]

Widealab Inc.

Is this an option to consider ?
S30 is what looksed nice - comments...

 

[manoj.p]

There is another option on the horizon. SalkStream Digital Music Systems Their products are in limited beta.

Anyways, but frankly, I simply cannot recommend these players because they seem to be doing nothing for the money it costs to buy them. These are nothing but some hardware decoding chip streaming/playing the music and passing it outward either to a USB DAC or digital output. The same can be done by a $100 media streamer like WDTV/Patriot box office/Boxee etc. Those are also running off a "custom" linux version. Frankly all the hardware embedded chips run a miniature linux operating system. So, there is nothing new about it. The media streamers can stream off network, so there are no moving parts inside (just like the high end players). I just don't see a point in spending lots of money on something that does not do anything special but come with superlative, marketing jargons to charge more money.

Same is the case with a PC for music playback for that matter. All we are doing here is to avoid all software/hardware related interference by using kernel streaming, so we get the bit perfect audio output. I have been there and one that. Used a dedicated HTPC for quite some time. The only thing I did not use is analog output from HTPC. I used digital output but spent lots of time for getting bit-perfect, kernel streamed output directly from media player. Lots of tweaking with re-clock and what not. Then found a better solution. Patriot Box Office. No more fumbling with all the PC issues.

The player is like a PC (runs linux), has no other parts than Audio/Video decoders. Everything happens in digital domain so no reason for interference etc. How is it different than using a PC or a high end digital media player? This little device just streams music, outputs as raw through HDMI. Then the user can use a high end receiver for DAC. Good thing about it is that all the sources are now served better by going through the DAC. It plays all other media formats, so its another bonus.

Doing the audio through dedicated or generic PC is great but its a hobby. Those who wants to put the efforts in it can do it and are well rewarded. But the same can be achieved by minimal efforts and cheaper ways with the same audio quality.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Widealab Inc.

Is this an option to consider ?
S30 is what looksed nice - comments...

Aurender Music Systems are one of the first systems to employ playback from Solid State Drives which provide performance unmatchable by CD players and Hard Disk Drives.

Immediately I'm put off. The humble CD drive can deliver data fast enough to play music. As I read the "technical" details, my half-truth bullshit alarm is deafening me! No... I am not impressed by this company. (And you need an iPad to control it? How amazingly generous of them to give the app for free!)

The Salk player looks far more honest (Am I wrong to judge a company by its marketing department? Surely that's why they have marketing departments! (And also why I try to download the manual, rather than the brochure, if I'm seriously interested in a product )).

Linux may well be the embedded system of choice for these devices. It all proves that Linux and Audio need not be strangers to one another. But they, as are the Squeezebox Touch and the Duet Controller, are a long way away from being PCs.

My bet... More and more devices like this (which is a good thing) with higher prices to match their accompanying hifi-world bullshit (which is not). Nothing wrong with paying a premium for premium components, but ... anyone want to bet on when we see the first audio-perfect SATA cable?

.

 

[anm]

I have an alix sound board with voyager linux waiting for my attention. Will put it together some day (actually night) but there are much larger things eating up my free time.

 

[venkatcr]

Then found a better solution. Patriot Box Office. No more fumbling with all the PC issues.

The Patriot Box Office looks like a very basic media player and will not satisfy the requirements of a serious music lover. I don't see this doing anything special (for 2 channel music) that any other media player cannot do.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

Anyways, but frankly, I simply cannot recommend these players because they seem to be doing nothing for the money it costs to buy them. T

I agree. If these music boxes have anything close to a decent sound card as part of the MOBO, (or even as an add on card) they would make sense. Otherwise they are just another box with serious limitations. A PC with a sound card is much easier and has no limitation.

Cheers

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I have an alix sound board with voyager linux waiting for my attention. Will put it together some day (actually night) but there are much larger things eating up my free time.

A whole new field, where the PC ceases to be a PC and becomes a media player? Had to dig around to find out about Alix

I think we should have a new thread for building those? Looking forward to your project.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

... anyone want to bet on when we see the first audio-perfect SATA cable?

.

Damn.

I should have known better

hyeah: hyeah:

 

[manoj.p]

The Patriot Box Office looks like a very basic media player and will not satisfy the requirements of a serious music lover. I don't see this doing anything special (for 2 channel music) that any other media player cannot do.

Cheers

The PBO is a audio decoder and streams the audio as PCM bitstream. Then you use a high end DAC downstream to do audio processing digital to analog conversion. This can even be a good audio receiver. What else someone wants/needs PBO to do?

If put in the same analogy of a PC -
PC - Media played and decoded by software player using codecs.
PBO/Media box - media played and decoded by hardware chip. Passed on to the receiver using raw bitstream. For 2 channels, it is PCM.
PC/Soundcard - Sound card does the audio processing and DAC (if analog output is used)
Digital Receiver - Receiver does the audio processing and DAC.

I just don't see technically what different is done by the PC. or may be if I am missing something, please enlighten me.
best,

 

[grubyhalo]

A very good build thread for an Alix-based music player:

Dead silent dedicated Linux music server for USB DAC's.

 

[venkatcr]

I just don't see technically what different is done by the PC. or may be if I am missing something, please enlighten me.
best,

There is nothing different in what the PBO does that numerous other media player do, and what a PC does. It is just the quality of what is done that makes the difference.

If you use a high end card such as Lynx or even Asus STX, the quality of extraction and decoding is far far superior to what you will get in a media player. I have tried TViX, XTreamer, and Dune. The output from a well designed PC with a card such as the STX is in a completely different league. I have heard this argument that digital data stream is all the same and how does it matter what you use!! You should do an AB comparison between a media player and a PC with a soundcard.

Actually, you can get an entry level PC with a good processor, use a STX or Lynx card, and you are on. If you go to a computer shop, they can assemble a PC for you in 45 minutes and even install the OS that you need. All you have to do is to install the card and the necessary drivers. You can use Foobar, that is free, and you have excellent player for music.

I really don't see the advantage something like the PBO provides excepting, of course, cost. At that cost, I really do not know how much quality they can provide. If it comes close to what a PC/STX can provide, frankly, it would been ruling the world by now.

Cheers