Peter Reinders PTP Solid 12 Turntable with Thomas Schick Arm.

[Sushant Sharma]

Hello
I have just bought the Solid 12 Turntable from Peter Reinders PTP with a Thomas Schick Arm. Made in Amsterdam and it is a souped up Lenco 75/78, weighing 25kgs, Corian Plinth with 4mm top plate, new bearing.
My DIY skills are still wanting and I thought this turntable would be alright for me. Hoping the famed idler wheel delivers on the promises. Major upgrade for me from my humble NAD c556 (Rega 1). very excited but will only be in physical possession of the TT in 4 weeks.
Please share any thoughts you might have on the turntable FMs.
Thanks.

 

[arj]

Really great buy Sushant. whats the cart and phono you plan to use ?

 

[Sushant Sharma]

Really great buy Sushant. whats the cart and phono you plan to use ?

Thanks Arj. Was going mad looking for options everywhere and finally decided to just go for it. Bank balance...oh wait there isn't any left.
Will use my Nagaoka mp110 for now since my Phono the Graham Slee Era Gold is MM only. But I know this cartridge will not suffice and I will need to upgrade soon.
Is it true that High Output Moving Coil Cartridges can be paired with a MM only phono? Was reading up on the internet and some folks seem to suggest that the output on a high output MC though is still not equivalent to an MM cartridge but could be enough to work well with a MM phono.

 

[Sushant Sharma]

I am getting a Ortofon SPU classic mkii MC cartridge along with the TT. I just realised the weight of it is 30gms whereas the weight of the nagaoka mp110 is a mere 6.5 gms. probably womt be able to use the Nag Cart with it.The Thomas Schick Arm is a heavy arm.

 

[Sushant Sharma]

oh wait. add to that the weight of the headshell in case of Nagaoka. Because the ortofon mkii attaches without the headshell

 

[arj]

Ill strongly recommend a Denon 103 ( not the R version but the standard) there is a beautiful synergy with the thomas schick and the sound is spectacular. The nagaoka needs lighter arms.
you cannot use a MC cart with an MM Phono since a MM phonos have a standard input impedance if 47 KOhm while an MC will need a different loading eg a Denon usually works in 100ohms so they will be incompatibe

The only way to use a MM phono with a MC art is to use a Step up transformer. eg if you use a step-up with 20 turns the impedence would be 47K/(20x20) which is approx 100 ohms

The Nagaoka MP110 is very good for the price, but if you want to really go high end get any of the Decca London Carts..not looking back after that with the Thomas schick

 

[Sushant Sharma]

Ill strongly recommend a Denon 103 ( not the R version but the standard) there is a beautiful synergy with the thomas schick and the sound is spectacular. The nagaoka needs lighter arms.
you cannot use a MC cart with an MM Phono since a MM phonos have a standard input impedance if 47 KOhm while an MC will need a different loading eg a Denon usually works in 100ohms so they will be incompatibe

The only way to use a MM phono with a MC art is to use a Step up transformer. eg if you use a step-up with 20 turns the impedence would be 47K/(20x20) which is approx 100 ohms

The Nagaoka MP110 is very good for the price, but if you want to really go high end get any of the Decca London Carts..not looking back after that with the Thomas schick

Thanks for the insight Arj. The Denon 103 seems to be a popular choice from what I was reading up also.

 

[Sushant Sharma]

Finally have the PTP turntable and the Thomas Schick 12 inch arm, spinning temporarily with a makeshift cartridge for now. Peter Reinder in his emails was kind to explain the workings of the table and pointers on maintenance and other tips etc. Went the DIY route and got a LOMC phono stage. Much love and gratitude to fellow members for helping with the phono and PSU. Sachu for the AD797 phono, Vikas for the Shunt regulated psu and Josh for the guidance and all the help. Its been a wait but am so looking forward to putting the phono and PSU together as soon as the Chassis is delivered by Audiocrafts, Delhi. wanted to show the table off and will post the photos of the phono and PSU in their aluminium chassis soon.Will soon share my impressions of the table if FMs would like that. Attaching a few photos of the table.

 

[mpw]

Very nice !

 

[Sushant Sharma]

Very nice !

Thanks Mpw!!

 

[mpw]

Tell us more about the sound

Did you have the turntable couriered from Peter Reinders ?

 

[Hari Iyer]

My suggestion - if the arm is heavy go for a high compliance cartridge above 25cu.

 

[jls001]

My suggestion - if the arm is heavy go for a high compliance cartridge above 25cu.

The Thomas Schick arm works best with very low compliance like Ortofon SPUs or Denon 103s.

 

[Hari Iyer]

The Thomas Schick arm works best with very low compliance like Ortofon SPUs or Denon 103s.

I am not sure why this is so - if the arm is heavy does that also mean its high stiffness? If the arm is stiff then it will not be very bouncy ie. low compliance of arm. If the arm is of low compliance then the cartridge should be of high compliance. I think it need to be discovered if the arm is stiff or not stiff. Then accordingly the cartridge needs to be selected. I may be wrong but this is my experience.

 

[jls001]

Simple explanation: the cantilever of the cartridge behaves like a spring. In fact it is a spring with a rubber bushing which decides the compliance. Soft spring = high compliance. Hard spring = low compliance.

Low compliance needs to be paired with high mass arm for the resonance to be in the desirable range. High compliance cartridge needs to be paired with low mass arm for the same reason. The resonance is due to the combined effects of the cartridge compliance and effective arm mass.

That's the theory. But having said that I freely use my high compliance cartridges on two very high mass arms. And I know others who do similarly (like playing a 40 cu cartridge in a 64g effective mass arm). I have also tried a very low compliance DL 103 (5 cu) on a very low mass ADC LM2 arm (5.x grams) but it was a disaster.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Thanks Jousha for the clarification. I am again analyzing your statement inversely w.r.t. stiffness for my understanding as below as stiffness is inverse of compliance - as its easy to feel the stiffness of the arm more than its compliance.
Soft spring = low stifness. Hard spring = high stiffness..

High stifness needs to be paired with high mass arm for the resonance to be in the desirable range. Low stiffness cartridge needs to be paired with low mass arm for the same reason. The resonance is due to the combined effects of the cartridge stiffness and effective arm mass.

Also i have paired a low compliance cartridge (high stiffness) with my low mass arm with excellent results too.

 

[Sushant Sharma]

Tell us more about the sound

Did you have the turntable couriered from Peter Reinders ?

Hi mpw. I am second owner and the previous/first owner had the unit for just over 2 years and bought it from Peter. He connected me to Peter Reinders and informed him of the sale to me in India. Peter thereafter wrote to me congratulating me on the purchase and we exchanged an email or two back and forth.
I am temporarily using it with the Nagaoka mp110 MM cart and Graham Slee Era Gold MM phono. With my speakers and amplifier and the whole rig remaining the same as my previous entry level turntable, i do not see a commensurate increment in terms of sound. Something I was kind of prepared for.
However I am waiting to connect the Ortofon SPU Classic cartridge that i am in possession of and the new LOMC phono to match and see where it takes me. Will post about the sound then.

Tell us more about the sound

Did you have the turntable couriered from Peter Reinders ?

 

[Sushant Sharma]

The Thomas Schick arm works best with very low compliance like Ortofon SPUs or Denon 103s.

In support to what you said,the internet and other credible forums are also replete with this information.

 

[Sushant Sharma]

I am not sure why this is so - if the arm is heavy does that also mean its high stiffness? If the arm is stiff then it will not be very bouncy ie. low compliance of arm. If the arm is of low compliance then the cartridge should be of high compliance. I think it need to be discovered if the arm is stiff or not stiff. Then accordingly the cartridge needs to be selected. I may be wrong but this is my experience.

Hari, I am trying to make sense and understand what you guys are talking about since I am a little behind on the science if it all. Thanks to you and Joshua for your comments.

 

[mpw]

Hi mpw. I am second owner and the previous/first owner had the unit for just over 2 years and bought it from Peter. He connected me to Peter Reinders and informed him of the sale to me in India. Peter thereafter wrote to me congratulating me on the purchase and we exchanged an email or two back and forth.
I am temporarily using it with the Nagaoka mp110 MM cart and Graham Slee Era Gold MM phono. With my speakers and amplifier and the whole rig remaining the same as my previous entry level turntable, i do not see a commensurate increment in terms of sound. Something I was kind of prepared for.
However I am waiting to connect the Ortofon SPU Classic cartridge that i am in possession of and the new LOMC phono to match and see where it takes me. Will post about the sound then.

Hi Sushant

The previous owner is in India ?