Plasma or LCD - Big confusion

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the_rock

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Hi, I'm really new to the world of Plasmas and LCDs. I'm still using my good old 21" CRT and would now like to upgrade to a Plasma or an LCD.

I would like to get some excellent picture quality with good speakers for regular daily viewing and it's as simple as that. :) My budget is upto 1L and the viewing distance is exactly 14 ft.

Well, my initial queries are
1. What is the basis for deciding which one is better, Plasma or LCD? I heard that the picture quality on Plasma is fantastic, but again, has the problem of screen burn-in - for this reason, Plasmas were out of the list. Am reconsidering after reading some posts out here.

2. Screen Size is an important parameter. For a 14ft viewing distance, the recommended screen size for an LCD is 46" or more. But some good models of LCDs (like Sony X 450A) costs more than 2.5L. Phew!! What is the size that I should consider for a Plasma? Are the parameters for the viewing distance the same for both types of TVs?

3. I have been reading some posts out here that Full HD for LCDs does not work well to view regular programmes on Tatasky. In that case, the whole purpose would be defeated, as I'm most of the time watching cable programmes. Would a similar problem occur in Plasmas as well?

4. I would appreciate if you could help me with some good models of Plasmas for a start and prices if you would know, and also a few dealers in Bangalore.

For now, only these queries - I have many many more questions for all you experts out there.

Thanks & bye for now
 

baby_ka_janu

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Hello Rock,
Welcome
I am a special effect artist. And I deal with colors everyday.
So let me tell you the truth.
1. How an image looks crispy and sharp? Because If it is having very less color variations.(I am talking about an image or any video with less color variation)

2. Clearity wise
No. 1. CRT
No. 2. Plasma
No. 3. LCD

3. Whenever there is any color finalization happen for any Video in any studio in the world (True Proffetional Studio) that happen in CRT not in Plasma or LCD.
Why?
Because Only CRT can produce most possible color variation. Now days plasma and LCD are coming closer to CRT but it will take at least 3-5 years.
It dosn't mean you should go and buy a CRT.
You should Buy PLASMA . If you wan't technical specification I can provide but dose it realy matter because as long as you had no idea about burn out or whatever you had no problem . It depends on what you watch. Tv channels,CD, DVD,Blue Ray or for games.

So think about resolution?
HD Ready, HD or full HD ?

If you are impressed with LCD clearity in Showroom . Mind these Things.

If they are showing you full HD LCD and they are playing any video which is looking very very nice. Then they are playing it by Blue Ray disc. Whose actual outut resolution is full HD.Not an Interpolated video. So it looks very good . Ask him to play any TV channel from any DTH provider (TATA SKY, DISH TV, Big TV .....). You will lose the clarity .Why ?
Because Indian DTH won't telecast Full HD.
If you play any DVD then also clarity will not be like that.

If he will show the next tv that is plasma then you will see it is looking different Not so Bright. Remember that TVs are having contrast and brightness setting (and many more these days) and you have no idea in which level that shopkeeper had keept. He will try to sell what is more in stock. or what he want to sell.
So for playing BLUE RAY or High end GAMES . Buy FULL HD.
If DVD or CD or TV then HD will look OK. (Due to interpolation)


Do this experement by your self.
If you Have CRT TV and digital camera take a Snap look it in CRT and if you have a laptop look the same image in laptop. You will find LCD can't produce real color and see the same in plasma. PLASMA will be closer to CRT TV.

And if you are thinking what is interpolation. It is the the method of increasing the resolution of any image. It is of many type and clearity depends on that method. Dont try to understand it it is very technical.

You should go for
For Full HD => VIERA TH-42PY700 VIERA TH-42PY700 : Digital AV|Products & Solutions|Panasonic India

Or HD=> VIERA TH-42PV70H VIERA TH-42PV70H : Digital AV|Products & Solutions|Panasonic India

Sorry for too much technical answer. What to do I am a technical person.

Finaly belive in your own eyes . Who knows you may see things diffrentely.
 
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mridulgoel

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Hello Rock,
Welcome
I am a special effect artist. And I deal with colors everyday.
So let me tell you the truth.
1. How an image looks crispy and sharp? Because If it is having very less color variations.(I am talking about an image or any video with less color variation)

2. Clearity wise
No. 1. CRT
No. 2. Plasma
No. 3. LCD

3. Whenever there is any color finalization happen for any Video in any studio in the world (True Proffetional Studio) that happen in CRT not in Plasma or LCD.
Why?
Because Only CRT can produce most possible color variation. Now days plasma and LCD are coming closer to CRT but it will take at least 3-5 years.
It dosn't mean you should go and buy a CRT.
You should Buy PLASMA . If you wan't technical specification I can provide but dose it realy matter because as long as you had no idea about burn out or whatever you had no problem . It depends on what you watch. Tv channels,CD, DVD,Blue Ray or for games.

So think about resolution?
HD Ready, HD or full HD ?

If you are impressed with LCD clearity in Showroom . Mind these Things.

If they are showing you full HD LCD and they are playing any video which is looking very very nice. Then they are playing it by Blue Ray disc. Whose actual outut resolution is full HD.Not an Interpolated video. So it looks very good . Ask him to play any TV channel from any DTH provider (TATA SKY, DISH TV, Big TV .....). You will lose the clarity .Why ?
Because Indian DTH won't telecast Full HD.
If you play any DVD then also clarity will not be like that.

If he will show the next tv that is plasma then you will see it is looking different Not so Bright. Remember that TVs are having contrast and brightness setting (and many more these days) and you have no idea in which level that shopkeeper had keept. He will try to sell what is more in stock. or what he want to sell.
So for playing BLUE RAY or High end GAMES . Buy FULL HD.
If DVD or CD or TV then HD will look OK. (Due to interpolation)


Do this experement by your self.
If you Have CRT TV and digital camera take a Snap look it in CRT and if you have a laptop look the same image in laptop. You will find LCD can't produce real color and see the same in plasma. PLASMA will be closer to CRT TV.

And if you are thinking what is interpolation. It is the the method of increasing the resolution of any image. It is of many type and clearity depends on that method. Dont try to understand it it is very technical.

You should go for
For Full HD => VIERA TH-42PY700 VIERA TH-42PY700 : Digital AV|Products & Solutions|Panasonic India

Or HD=> VIERA TH-42PV70H VIERA TH-42PV70H : Digital AV|Products & Solutions|Panasonic India

Sorry for too much technical answer. What to do I am a technical person.

Finaly belive in your own eyes . Who knows you may see things diffrentely.

Hey Bro...

That was toooo informative...

Thanks a lot for the same...

Buddy, you will find many posts on the same...

Just read out the Poll/Post Best Plasma... There it is completely explained why Plasma is better than LCD for HT(Home Theatre) use, and why LCD is better for data use....
 

Dushie

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Any movie lover, who wants to enjoy a home theater experience at home will go for plasma and wont even consider an lcd,

There are already many post on the same, u can read about both ..

Do a simple test, keep a lcd and a plasma side by side in a pitch dark room, and view the same content on both,

U will get your answer as to why Plasma is better choice for home theaters and Lcd for everything else ...
 

vinod_david

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I would like to get some excellent picture quality with good speakers for regular daily viewing and it's as simple as that. :) My budget is upto 1L and the viewing distance is exactly 14 ft.

Hi:

Take your car/bike, head off straight to a Panasonic brandshop and Samsung digital shope.

First, while you're in Panasonic shop ask for 42" PV80H or 42" PV8H plasma tvs. Since you're a regular SD (tata sky) viewer, you're in a treat when you watch both these models, you can also spin some DVD's and watch them too in both these models.

Second, while you're in Samsung shop ask for 42" 450 or 42" 410 plasma tvs. Watch both SD and DVD content in both these models extensively, and you're in a treat here too.

Third, head back home with those happy moments of the demo you had of all the glorious plasmas. After a day or two you know which plasma to buy.:D

Since your budget is 1L, you can consider 50" of both brands (am not sure of the 50" price though).

PS - I have seen LCD of all brands and plasma of LG too, but Panasonic and Samsung are icing on the cake (IMO), but remember you might like other brands too:)
 
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psychotropic

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With a budget of 1 lakh please also consider a Pioner 428XG.....it should easily leave the Panasonic Pv8/80 and the Samsung 410/450 dead in the water....It's not Full HD, but it's a killer television....
 

baby_ka_janu

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In theory, plasma gives higher contrast only if ur room is pitch black......( set.
Plasma gives same contrast all the time(as long as you are not changing the contrast and brightness settings for different environment). You feel it different because of room light condition
Example : A man who is wearing white cloths in a white background room won't look contrast but if he will stand in a black background room he will look contrast. Mind it he had not changed his cloths but due to the environment change it looks like that.


There is an example image in bottom. Go to Image:Optical grey squares orange brown.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for this image.

Here it is very similar what mandeep said. But actualy how our eyes react for colors. Both the yellow dots are having same value but upper one looks dull and lower dot looks bright because of Background. Please bare with me I will explain later the same thing from different prospective.

You can check the yellow dot's values in any software?
also one should avoid that medically, not at all good for eyes) always watch HT with bulb that glow at 6,500 degrees Kelvin.6,500K is best for a home-theater application. A white light rated at 6,500K will exactly match the white on a correctly calibrated TV
I am remembering those days when people were using one anti glaer glass sheet over there CRT computer monitor to decrease the brightness just to protect there eyes....:rolleyes:

Your eyes have a much more difficult time determining color without any light source
You are right.You are extremely right.I agree with you. But my friend here the TV itself is the light source and logicaly you are looking at thousands of tiny bulbs. If you are not using your tubelight and If you are planning to see things present in your tv room like sofa, table or remotcontrol or whetever in the light of your TV then that is a different case.
In fact, this is why colors seem so bright when you walk out of a dark room into daylight: your eyes have lost their color reference and have to adjust. The lighting will provide just enough light for your eyes to get their color reference, and you'll find that pictures seem a little crisper and colors more vivid--quite a fringe benefit
My friend quality of an image or video is not measured by vivid colors and crisper. As I told early an image or video looks more contrast and crisper because of less colors veriation present on them but at the same time you will loose the depth of image and information of image will be washed out. I wiil explain you later and if you want i will give examples.

Unless you have a completely dark room covered in black velvet, you'll never be able to perceive the high on/off contrast ratios claimed by manufacturers ?? those numbers are meaningless otherwise.

Who enjoys laser show at 12 o'clock afternoon?
My dear friend again I agree with you but you are loosing the very need of good TV . Now you pushed me to explain the real theory of colors.
In TV we see 24bit color .8bit per channel.so accoding to that you can see 256 veriation of each primary color(RED,BLUE,GREEN).any totaly 256X256X256=16777216 colors.But many LCDs are having 6bit per channel.
Some clames our LCD showes 10 bit per channel. Means 1024X1024X1024=1073741824 colors .
The question is can you realy differintate them.As I told early an image or video looks more contrast and crisper because of less colors veriation present on them.
Now come to the same image we have seen in bottom

Its URL is Image:Optical grey squares orange brown.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now suppose you have LCD TV and according to our eyes behavior we see the same yellow dot in dark room? It will look like lower dot.But the same dot will look dull in bright room light. So what if you want the LCD to display that dot in same intensity? You have to increase color value.
If the value of color was Red=250 Green=250 Blue=10
Then you can increase it till Red=255 Green=255 Blue=15 and you got the same dark room color.Right?
So suppose the value in dark was Red=255 Green=255 Blue=15
then what will you do? At this stage you cant go beyond it .And If you have two dots ones value is Red=250 Green=250 Blue=10 and others valu is Red=255 Green=255 Blue=15 then after increasing the color value both will look same because you won't get more head room. Here you lost variation and Image look crispy but lost details.That is were wahhed out theory comes.
If you say mine is 10 bit per chennel then what happens is it will not show you values from 1024 to 0. It will narrow the color veriation .
If value in an area is between 250 to 150 it will narrow it down to 230 to 170 so it will look crispy. MAN this is the theory which we you when we have to add or composit any special effect like spark or blast in any day light seen.
If you have a Ship sail that in sea not in small river.
So first understand where you should watch TV. In a bright room or in a dim light. And the main thing is LCD can't evan produce actual colors. Its red green blue looks like something different and so the overall color. Read my first post and do that experiment by your self.

In a dark room TV is having enough headroom to show you actual depth (If you are realy interested to enjoy)

Burn-in form static LOGOS of TV (even indian movies have them), and Burn-in from video games is still a reality,not in theory but practically yes.
I suggest you check your Input supplies for TV.

I can disscus whole day on that

I think you bought LCD .Don't you?
In my case I am using CRT.
:) LCDvsPLASMA.jpg
 
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mridulgoel

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The difference between the brightest and darkest parts of the scene, known as contrast.The bigger this difference is better the contrast.

Contrast in general is a function of the ambient light. (contrast = 1/ambient light)

More ambient light means less contrast and vice versa.

ambient light = 10, contrast =0.1 (B'coz , contrast = 1/ambient light)

ambient light = .1, contrast =10 (B'coz , contrast = 1/ambient light)


Factors Affecting Perceived Contrast Ratio


The Human Eye

The human eye, at any particular instant, can perceive contrast ratio over a range of 400:1 to 10,000:1 according to numerous references. However, the human eye is a dynamic organ and can adjust, both chemically and via iris movement, over some 30 minutes in steady light conditions to perceive higher contrast ratios of up to between 1,000,000:1and 10,000,000:1. One can think of the eye as an adaptive detector. Age is a factor influencing what contrast ratio might be perceived by the particular individual.

The images displayed can affect the perceived contrast ratio with the human eye being able to detect higher contrast ratios for static images as opposed to moving images.

Ambient Light Conditions

Even small amounts of ambient light (one LUX ?? a candle flame) significantly reduces the ability of display devices to render higher contrast ratios (in the 1,000??s). A black area can only be as black as whatever incident light is reflecting from it. You cannot ??project? the color black. Doubly detrimental is the rapid drop off of the eyes contrast sensitivity with higher ambient light levels.And what do doctors say never watch TV/HT in complete dark, not good for eyes.So if u will see TV with ambient light with 6500k colour temp. In this case (of ambient light environment), as screen materials that are used in a LCD TV are much flatter in texture and lower in reflectivity, makes an LCD show better contrast in a brightly lit environment so LCD is a good choice.

Spatial Frequency

The eye is sensitive to the spatial frequency which is a factor related to the distance between the contrasting image elements in relation to each degree of field of vision at the eye. Consider that the frequency is the count of the number of alternating vertical stripes of black and white across an arc of one degree with the eye as its origin. Increasing the number of vertical stripes across the arc (making them thinner) will, beyond a certain point, reduce the eyes ability to perceive contrast ratio ?? even though the actual contrast between the white and black stripes remains the same.


Watching TV in the dark

Why is it stressful to watch TV during nights with all lights switched off?

R.P. Ram Mohan
Hyderabad

Answer 1: The human eye has a variable aperture called the pupil to regulate the amount of light entering the eye.

The size of the pupil is controlled by a set of muscles called the iris. The iris contracts in bright light to decrease the size of the pupil.

In darkness/dim light, the iris relaxes completely so that maximum amount of light can enter the eye through the enlarged pupil.While watching TV in dark/dim light, the TV becomes the lone source of light entering the eye.

As various pictures/scenes are continuously shown on TV with constantly varying degrees of brightness, the iris is made to constantly relax and contract, thus causing great strain to it.

This effect is not felt when TV is watched in light, since the TV is then not an important source of light and the impact of its fluctuations in brightness is negligible.

J. Dinesh
Chennai

Answer 2: While it is stressful to watch TV in darkness owing to the constant relaxation and contraction of the iris and hence recommended not to watch TV in darkness, the same does not apply to watching a movie in a dark theatre.

The simple reason is that movie, unlike the TV or computer image is not in the form of pixels. Movie is in the form of analogue.

A simple way to check for the stress caused to the eye is to see how stressful it is to read a long article on a computer compared with reading the same article from a print out.

When we read a book, the letters are completely black and the space between letters is just plain white. On a computer, the central part of a letter is darkest and the colour reduces towards the edges and drops off. So the focusing mechanism is put under a lot of stress.

Again, in the case of watching movies in a good commercial theatre, the stress caused to the eyes is less as the eyes' field of view is completely occupied by the screen, that covers the entire front wall, and for the rest of the theatre there are dim lights all over the place.

This is not the case with TV or computer. The screen is smaller and does not fill the complete field of vision of the eyes
.

Moreover, the object on the TV is constantly flickering and we see areas that are of different light intensities.

Hence, it is highly recommended that watching TV or working on a computer be done in a well lit room.

Dr. Arulmozhi Varman
Uma Eye Clinic, Chennai


R.P. RAM MOHAN

Hyderabad

Newer LCD's have better colour accuracy now---->not much of a problem

Mandeep

except ur point for black levels, none of your point supports the LCD as all the other points including strain from anything tht focuses light in a room, even tht is there with a torch light too...

Now regarding your black levels point, then buddy your theory is not complete from the TV point of view...

if you know the technologies, then
LCD, works on the same technology as CRT, as it tool have backlight, and the when the rays from tht, crosses the RGB color panel chips, to the LCD Panel, then the dried up states of Liquid Crystals, expand them into pictures...

Where in Plasma, there is nothing like RGB chip, or backlight...
A Plasma panel is filled with Neon Gas, which in dried state has RGB color pallete with dried neon...
And when it gets positive & negative current from both the ends, they pat on the particular pixel, which thus expand the RGB color to make the proper color of tht pixel...and hence generated the picture...

Even now if u havent understood the theory.. then let me tell u...

In case of LCD, when the light is thrown through RGB panel, to the screen, to pixels, they have almost the same colors, so the number of colors go less... Though the contrast ratio is said to be the same, but more only because of the technology, and in that as well u require pretty bright ambience to get the proper view, as is there in Showrooms..

But, in case of Plasmas, the picture is generated on due to current charge on the pixels, so they can get as darker as they get the power, and as light as the power, as the RGB has all the colors of the Universe...
And where in homes, the ambience is totally different from the showrooms, the picture is clear, with much more colors than LCD...

anyone can put a LCD or a Plasma side by side and do this experiment...

Now, regarding the light in the room, tht the room, should nt be darker...in this plasma states much better than LCD..

as lcd technology has backlight coming from back, it directly get into your eyes, which annoys a lot, where plasma generates its own picture, so there is no problem with tht..

anyone can do this experiment as well..have a look at a Plasma in a dark room, then open the room lights at once..
Then do the same with lcd...
you will find tht, the lights while watching movies hurts a lot, in case of LCDs..

Bro, be practical on points, then be on theory..

Your theory is not wrong, but is in normal factor, but when its combined with other technologies the effect is different...

same as drug when taken directly kills, but when given as a medicine heals...
 

mridulgoel

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and yes sorry to mention..
what you are talking about contrast ratio is true..

the actual(native) contrast ratio is 1/25 time of the screen(dynamic) contrast ratio...

Its same as 1080i and 1080p...
where (p) refers to the Progressive/actual 1080 picture where (i) refers to interlace, tht means a 720p picture is being upconverted to 1080...

Same with contrast, the native contrast is the actual panel contrast but the dynamic contrst is what you see upconverted by the chip...
 

mridulgoel

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Yes thats the whole point.....both plasma and LCD cause eye strain in dark conditions/environment.............so the bottomline is "NOT TO WATCH TV (PLASMA or LCD) IN DARK CONDITIONS/ENVIRONMENT.

Now when we are to watch Tv with ambient light source then under this condition LCD is much better.

B'COZ(Again)

"screen materials that are used in a LCD TV are much flatter in texture and lower in reflectivity, makes an LCD show better contrast in a brightly lit environment".


thanks
and "HAPPY DIWALI TO ALL"

Mandeep Buddy

Thts nt the whole point...

The max problem than Plasma n LCD is from CRT...

the reason y LCD or Plasma is to be blamed, is as they have big screen, they have brighter light and hence they cause more irritation..

anyways what material, u talking about...
one should not tht the neon gas produce more natural and safe to view colors than crystals...
crystals always shine, and hence the strain on eyes are more, where neon gas is dull, so have all natural colors..

u must have observed in the showrooms, tht the lcd seems to be fine, as the bluntness of its brughtness is lowered down by the ambience lighting in shorooms, where a plasma seems to be very dimmer, and dull, in the same light...

and the ambient light what u r talking about is the RGB color changing light what Philips once provided in there lcds...
But it doesnt make sense anywhere tht the white or bulb light reduces the strain...
 

square_wave

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I am in the graphics industry for almost 10 years now and dealing with colors on a daily basis.
CRT monitors produce the most ?? correct ?? color. But most production nowadays even for animated movies happen on LCD monitors. CRT calibrated monitors are preferred only in certain very paranoid color critical industries.
For most practical applications like watching TV, occasional DVD and even Blu-ray you can just go in for Plasma or LCD depending on what your eyes like. If you are a purist video junkie with a perfectly lit home theatre room(ideal conditions) and watch only blu-ray and 1080pPS3 games of the highest production quality and are quite paranoid about true color-tone and such, then Plasma is the way to go because it is more true but for most practical applications Lcd is quite good. Half the graphic artists in my studio use LCD at home and have no complaints:D
 

Dushie

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I am in the graphics industry for almost 10 years now and dealing with colors on a daily basis.
CRT monitors produce the most ?? correct ?? color.
For most practical applications like watching TV, occasional DVD and even Blu-ray you can just go in for Plasma or LCD depending on what your eyes like. If you are a purist video junkie with a perfectly lit home theatre room(ideal conditions) and watch only blu-ray and 1080pPS3 games of the highest production quality and are quite paranoid about true color-tone and such, then Plasma is the way to go because it is more true :D

Well Mandeep, at least this proves what we all have been saying all along, that Plasma produce better real life pictures than LCD .

Ofcourse if you are someone who will buy a Tv set on face value and never fiddle with it one can buy lcd.

But for true picture and home theater lovers who want the bang for the buck and the best out of their set's plasma is the way to go, calibrate them and see the pictures come alive ...
 
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