Power Chord

[Ambio]

@Santy, Jls, I am aware of some mysterious noise disappear with certain cables but I have never heard them before. Please give me a track and the exact portion where this effect takes place with the change of a power cord.

Or why not do just the opposite, instead of reducing the noise floor with a special cable why not give me a portion of track where I could listen to with the cheapest power cord to experience the different type NF you are referring to.

This is off topic but may be relevant to stress the point I am trying to make. Many people try different kind materials under the speakers to reduce the vibration. I tried many methods including submerging the stands in water. Then a bright light lit above my head. Why not increase the vibration to see if I could tell the difference?

So I got a small motor placed on the speakers cabinet. The vibration is strong that you could feel them touching the cabinet. My children controlled the switch and I listened DBT. Thats the end of decoupling and vibration control of speakers. Can someone come up with similar experiment to experiment the different kind of NF JLS and Santy talking about. I do not know them and difficult to experiment with it.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I feel the power plug contact with the wall receptacle is the most crucial. They should be tight and not move around. Else a lot of micro arcing happens. Most people don't pay attention to this crucial aspect. I personally don't like plating on the contacts. Prefer brass or copper ...

Unless hard-wired to the equipment, then I'm sure you'd agree that the plug contact both ends of the wire is equally important. My Russ Andrews power cord fails on this vital count.

Whilst I can't yet claim any actually-heard audio improvement, I suspect that the biggest, most real, electrical-improvement device of my entire life is... my can of DeOxit! Whilst DeOxit is hardly cheap it has much more than paid for itself already by resurrecting an expensive mouse and, only yesterday, my kitchen timer. I'm sure it's day will come to do something fairly major to audio

There is only one electric pole for the 10 house on my side. That was a special pole that I paid for to have a dedicated three phase connected from the cable directly from substation at the intersection where they harvest solar energy to be fed back to the power distribution. Initially, when the feed in system was introduced I could feel a flicker when the system kicks in but now the have fine tune it.

The music system was connected with a dedicated phase just for the music system. It was also isolated from rest of the system with its own dedicated earthing with a 12 foot rod. The system is completely isolated from rest of the house. Even after going through such extreme audiophillia stage I never heard a difference. Now, I am cured and do not care for such extremities but the only good thing about it when God decided to pay me a visit on Deepavali day.

I sincerely take my hat off to your over-engineering! I don't think that what you did was fake or foolish in any way --- except for curing problems that you didn't actually have! I can respect this kind of over-engineering. One can say that the money might have been better spent, but it must have been a fun project with plenty of pride in completing it.

I believe some cable geometries are patented (e.g. Jade Audio). Some metallurgical processes that eventually find usage in audio (though not exclusively), are patented too (e.g. Prof Ohno's Continuous Cast Monocrystal copper)..

Patents don't mean a thing is genuine. Patents are granted by the thousand.

Then it must be a good sort of placebo effect.

Placebo effect is good. Every bit as good as the the real thing. That's the whole point of the concept: nobody can tell it is a placebo effect, because if they can, it isn't!

I don't know what you're leading to and how the presence of an electrical or electronics engineer may help clarify or reinforce or nullify what I heard with my ears.

BTW, what I think you're asking me to do is called appeal to authority. But in this case the suggested authority is the wrong sort

If you were asking me to confirm if my power cables and power connections for electrical safety and correct engineering practices conforming to the laws of the land, then yes, an engineer in the house would help.

I wonder if you are forgetting that all of your audio equipment was designed and built by electrical and electronic engineers? Their input would seem to be pertinent.

It would be neat if I could claim that 100% of engineers involved in audio design and building do not believe that "cables make a difference." No, the world is not that simple: some certainly do. Probably some even "believe" in power cords. Most of the ones I have read are slightly miffed that people don't recognise the work they put in to the power supply design. File under... if a power cord does make a difference, the equipment is faulty.

... ... I can only guess that power cables, like any other electrical component in an audio chain, will alter the electrical signal that is passing through it.

But, power cables are not part of the audio path, and audio does not pass through them.

 

[Ambio]

I sincerely take my hat off to your over-engineering! I don't think that what you did was fake or foolish in any way --- except for curing problems that you didn't actually have! I can respect this kind of over-engineering. One can say that the money might have been better spent, but it must have been a fun project with plenty of pride in completing it.


.

It is simple. Within a few years of this hobby I realised that no matter what cable, player, amplifier or speakers I used, it was not possible to recreate the concert hall sound in stereo. I tried and tried ever possible tweaks. Once, I was so crazy about FM Acoustics amplifier because I honestly thought it could be the holy grail. The realisation came too late. Had it been ten years earlier, I would have saved thousands and listened to more music instead of wasting my time.


And about the over engineering part... Well...it was well received and some of the guys actually upgraded their electrical system. It was only after about a year, when I was rewiring the music room for a stabiliser I discovered that it wasn't a dedicated phase after all. It was actually shared by the air cond and several plugs in the kitchen!!! According to the electrician, all three phases must be shared equally for approval. Talk about placebo and I think nothing can beat this. I re wired again though for a dedicated phase. Now imagine the looks on my friends face who sang praises for the exactly same system but the false ( including myself) belief that the dedicated pole did miracles to my system. :lol::lol:


Btw, I could NOT thank you for the following post as the grace period to express my appreciation expired. so I thank you belatedly.

HiFiVision

<--- Those With Faith

Those Without Faith --->


hyeah:
​

~

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks, but... I got into a lot of trouble for that post, because it was misunderstood!

It was in response to a suggestions that "believers" and "non-believers" should have their own threads, and it meant to express that, if that happens, then there is no conversation, no exchange, no learning. But some people seem to want that... And that is a bad thing.

I absolutely did not mean that it is what should happen, because I believe it should not.

And about the over engineering part... Well...it was well received and some of the guys actually upgraded their electrical system. It was only after about a year, when I was rewiring the music room for a stabiliser I discovered that it wasn't a dedicated phase after all. It was actually shared by the air cond and several plugs in the kitchen!!! According to the electrician, all three phases must be shared equally for approval. Talk about placebo and I think nothing can beat this. I re wired again though for a dedicated phase. Now imagine the looks on my friends face who sang praises for the exactly same system but the false ( including myself) belief that the dedicated pole did miracles to my system.

It's quite funny that your prized "clean" "dedicated" power supply was shared with an AC machine, of all things! I had to change some wiring to make sure mine was not on the same phase as the AC in the same room, as the power drop when the compressor cut in would actually flip the amp into standby mode. My Cyrus amp does that even when a computer on the same socket would not reboot.

 

[koushik]

It is simple. Within a few years of this hobby I realised that no matter what cable, player, amplifier or speakers I used, it was not possible to recreate the concert hall sound in stereo. I tried and tried ever possible tweaks. Once, I was so crazy about FM Acoustics amplifier because I honestly thought it could be the holy grail. The realisation came too late. Had it been ten years earlier, I would have saved thousands and listened to more music instead of wasting my time.


And about the over engineering part... Well...it was well received and some of the guys actually upgraded their electrical system. It was only after about a year, when I was rewiring the music room for a stabiliser I discovered that it wasn't a dedicated phase after all. It was actually shared by the air cond and several plugs in the kitchen!!! According to the electrician, all three phases must be shared equally for approval. Talk about placebo and I think nothing can beat this. I re wired again though for a dedicated phase. Now imagine the looks on my friends face who sang praises for the exactly same system but the false ( including myself) belief that the dedicated pole did miracles to my system. :lol::lol:


Btw, I could NOT thank you for the following post as the grace period to express my appreciation expired. so I thank you belatedly.

What you missed is not money but a mentor. Every genius has a teacher and that's where you defaulted.

 

[Ambio]

What you missed is not money but a mentor. Every genius has a teacher and that's where you defaulted.

I had a few. All self proclaimed. Most of them are no longer active or only meet up with someone new to the high end world. And no one would want I to be my mentor after the so called dedicated clean power supply fiasco.

 

[Ambio]

Thanks, but... I got into a lot of trouble for that post, because it was misunderstood!



It's quite funny that your prized "clean" "dedicated" power supply was shared with an AC machine, of all things! I had to change some wiring to make sure mine was not on the same phase as the AC in the same room, as the power drop when the compressor cut in would actually flip the amp into standby mode. My Cyrus amp does that even when a computer on the same socket would not reboot.

I don't see anything offensive. It was funny and Mod Santy's signage was even more funnier.

Besides the air cond it was also connected to the microwave oven. Maybe, that explains the micro details I was hearing.

 

[dheerajin]

It would be neat if I could claim that 100% of engineers involved in audio design and building do not believe that "cables make a difference." No, the world is not that simple: some certainly do. Probably some even "believe" in power cords. Most of the ones I have read are slightly miffed that people don't recognise the work they put in to the power supply design. File under... if a power cord does make a difference, the equipment is faulty.
.

From an engineering point of view, the only parameters that seem to come into play is the contact resistance ( very small of course) and the shielding of the cable to RF interference. If the amp is very sensitive to supply voltage changes and has sensitivity to ingress of RF on the supply lines then the amp will probably have some 'small' noticeable difference with different power cables.
If it's a well engineered amp and is relatively insensitive to supply line variations and quite immune to RF on the supply lines then it will probably sound the same on any power cord.
So if your 'average' inexpensive amp shows no difference , it's probably because it is a 'GOOD' well designed amp !

Mr Fantastic & Thad has very well put the things...
discussion concludes here..period

 

[arj]

Mr Fantastic & Thad has very well put the things...
discussion concludes here..period

Exactly it is proven without any doubts with these statements so let us not waste our time on this thread anymore

 

[Santy]

It looks like we have finally reached a conclusion here.
Should we do the needful?

 

[arj]

It looks like we have finally reached a conclusion here.
Should we do the needful?

..As long as its a measured approach to a logical conclusion !


But apparently Hifi Itself IS A SCAM perpetuated on all of us

Hi-Fi is All a Scam - Roger Skoff Finally Admits All

Even so, that's not the real problem. What the real problem IS is that audiophiles, music lovers, Hi-Fi Crazies, and all the rest still fail to recognize that what they think they hear is NOT "sound" (as they, despite all rational explanation, still insist on calling it) but simply a pattern of vibrationsinitiated as vibrations; recorded as vibrations; reproduced as vibrations; picked-up by their ears as vibrations; and transmuted to "sound" only IN their minds, BY their minds.

Other than that, sound is a complete fantasy; a hallucinationjust one more example of Hi-Fi voodoo and possibly even the dread "placebo effect".

and finally the death Knell

THERE IS NO SOUND. Our measurements have proven it!

 

[prem]

I think after the above post we can probably close the forum too

 

[arj]

I think after the above post we can probably close the forum too

Prem there is another approach which can be tried. we can first try and discredit the author completely , and then the magazine ?

I think there may be data on the internet to prove that vibrations are actually sound ..Usually google is the way to arrive at facts..so maybe we try that ?

We can bombard them with so many Hifi facts and prove that the Placebo effect is in itself a placebo effect and hence real since 2 -ves make a positive in engineering ! am sure all engineers agree on that ( it was when i did my engineering many years back)

 

[prem]

Arj, let me not waste time arguing. Let me remove all resonance control on my turntable and let it vibrate freely. Maybe I wll get more music out of it because of the added vibrations