Quitting the roon habit

[drkrack]

Most other UIs really suck, but I want to get out of Roon so I can get a real streamer, and have a one box solution, not a streamer/NAS/roon core blah blah.

There's one more option for installing Roon Core on NAS, Synology and Qnap ones with 2gb Ram and Intel Processor are compatible. That'll reduce one extra effort of switching the Roon Core for listening to music and you just need to fire up the Endpoint. It'll be always on and you can listen via your portable devices as well. (since you were considering a Headphone setup).
More Info :

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-server-on-nas

Roon is the Microsoft of Audiophilia (actually more like Apple) I feel,

Microsoft is a better comparison, because it's providing the software only with very few restrictions on what hardware you use. Our humble Allo Signature devices really sound awesome as Roon Endpoint.

LMS has its mobile app which is pretty good and fail safe

Isn't their any good fork of Linux which can work flawlessly as media server and player app, How about Ubuntu Media Center OS?

AFAIK the license for 3.5 is still valid so you can continue to use it without a monthly subscription. See

Yup it is still valid, I have Saved 3.5dmg file as well : if anyone is interested, I can sell my Audirvana license at a deep discount.

@essrand The Auralic is supposed to have the best Streamer Software according to Daarko reviews, it's lightening OS is supposed to be more user friendly.

 

[AKT]

Have you used the Auralic?

Yes. I would call it closest to Roon, but still not Roon!
Frankly. I have not used BluOS extensively but there are many who can vouch for that.

 

[AKT]

I have been a Roon subscriber since Nov 2020. I am still on a monthly plan, not able to commit as yet.

Apart from all the bells and whistles, fundamentally Roon is indeed rock solid. I have never had a single issue with the playback engine ever in the last 7 months of very regular usage. That in itself should be worth its weight in gold.

On the flip side, the fact that Roon does not promote a social behavior is my biggest gripe. Pls allow me to explain:

a) The extensive metadata is really great but try searching and/or sharing even a snippet of an album or artiste review. Other day, an old friend and I were discussing a John Lennon album that was mostly home recorded by Yoko. It is crude and would make sense only to die hard fans. How do you share any of that? Oh wait! Google comes to rescue. but not Roon.

b) I cannot add/delete tracks to Tidal or Qobuz playlists in Roon. So I need copy that as Roon's own. You would have seen many share their favorite playlists here. I cannot, because Roon does not allow. Can I export a Roon playlist back to Tidal/Qobuz? Roon does not allow.

c) I am at an old boys meet and want to play a newly curated Blues playlist. I can't because I need a Roon core tugged to my belt everywhere I go. Roon has taken a cloud service, encapsulated it into on-prem and locked it behind a router in my house.

d) The cost is so prohibitive that not everybody is able to use it. Very reason you would find more people discuss Tidal and Spotify content as opposed to Qobuz. We can cut some slack for Qobuz because it is relatively new but not for Roon. Many of us Roon users have tried to create our own world on this distant Roon planet and defend it vociferously but we do miss our family and friends

I can add more but you get the drift. Music is intrinsically meant to be shared. What is the point in listening to music if you cannot share that joy with those you know would appreciate?

I cannot commit to Roon as yet.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Roon has taken a cloud service, encapsulated it into on-prem and locked it behind a router in my house.

That’s a deal-breaker for many, including me. Let’s hope they can come up with a thin client that works off mobile gadgets without the need for a separate local core. Something that is in line with the cloud era we live in.

 

[hydra]

I have been a Roon subscriber since Nov 2020. I am still on a monthly plan, not able to commit as yet.

Apart from all the bells and whistles, fundamentally Roon is indeed rock solid. I have never had a single issue with the playback engine ever in the last 7 months of very regular usage. That in itself should be worth its weight in gold.

On the flip side, the fact that Roon does not promote a social behavior is my biggest gripe. Pls allow me to explain:

a) The extensive metadata is really great but try searching and/or sharing even a snippet of an album or artiste review. Other day, an old friend and I were discussing a John Lennon album that was mostly home recorded by Yoko. It is crude and would make sense only to die hard fans. How do you share any of that? Oh wait! Google comes to rescue. but not Roon.

b) I cannot add/delete tracks to Tidal or Qobuz playlists in Roon. So I need copy that as Roon's own. You would have seen many share their favorite playlists here. I cannot, because Roon does not allow. Can I export a Roon playlist back to Tidal/Qobuz? Roon does not allow.

c) I am at an old boys meet and want to play a newly curated Blues playlist. I can't because I need a Roon core tugged to my belt everywhere I go. Roon has taken a cloud service, encapsulated it into on-prem and locked it behind a router in my house.

d) The cost is so prohibitive that not everybody is able to use it. Very reason you would find more people discuss Tidal and Spotify content as opposed to Qobuz. We can cut some slack for Qobuz because it is relatively new but not for Roon. Many of us Roon users have tried to create our own world on this distant Roon planet and defend it vociferously but we do miss our family and friends

I can add more but you get the drift. Music is intrinsically meant to be shared. What is the point in listening to music if you cannot share that joy with those you know would appreciate?

I cannot commit to Roon as yet.

Very valid gripes!

From what I've read, a few technically minded folks have managed to make Roon work via VPN for offsite use, but apparently there are so many hoops to jump through that most people get put off from trying this.

There's a running request to get Roon to have a "guest mode" that would let other Roon Users open their playlists off site (via another Roon Core, of course). Hopefully that'll happen with the next major release.

At the very least, they should really let us share the Tidal link of a track (with the standard artwork that Roon generates).

I'm not a playlist person (I prefer to play full albums), so the playlist issue hasn't affected me much personally. But the ability to export (and import) pre-created playlists in some standard format would have been great.

The running cost aspect is what kept me away from Roon for the longest time. I cancelled my Netflix subscription so I could afford Roon. Considering that my music listening time went up from about an hour a day to 9 hours a day after that, it's not so bad a deal. And because of this I barely have time for watching anything anyway.

 

[captainsubtext]

As a person who uses 4 setups at home (2 stereo and 2 headphone) Roon is single handled the best user interface for music playback. Nothing comes close.

I have custom eq profiles set up for each of my headphones and can control it all through my phone/iPad. Everything else feels archaic in comparison.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

What is the point in listening to music if you cannot share that joy with those you know would appreciate?

The point of listening to music is to enjoy it, not socialize about it.

 

[AKT]

As a person who uses 4 setups at home (2 stereo and 2 headphone) Roon is single handled the best user interface for music playback. Nothing comes close.

I have custom eq profiles set up for each of my headphones and can control it all through my phone/iPad. Everything else feels archaic in comparison.

This is a very common use case. I myself have three setups. Individual endpoint and session management in Roon is unparalleled.

 

[AKT]

The point of listening to music is to enjoy it, not socialize about it.

absolutely. just like life...

 

[Deleted member 15865]

The point of listening to music is to enjoy it, not socialize about it.

While listening is the primary objective, it needn’t be the only one. Human being is a social animal and that reflects in all his pursuits. Traditionally, musical concerts have also been events where people socialise around the music and the musicians. Look at the number of threads on this forum where FMs actively discuss various artists, albums and genres. Surely it helps having an app that allows/ promotes the same.

Further, discussing the music you are listening also helps understand and appreciate it more. As a regular listener of Radio Paradise internet radio stations, apart from their great sounding FLAC streams, another attraction for me is the ongoing discussion by listeners on each track in a bulletin board format that goes on over the years and gets pulled up when the song is playing. I haven’t come across that level of discussion on each song anywhere else. While that’s perhaps too much to expect from a mainstream application like Roon, not even being able to share playlists is a bummer.

 

[essrand]

Did anyone get a significant uptick from using Roon Rock on an NUC vs using a Mac mini?

@AKT my Roon feels buggy, perhaps it's cause of my old mac mini. Does your roon work when the internet is down and you are playing local files?

 

[captainsubtext]

Did anyone get a significant uptick from using Roon Rock on an NUC vs using a Mac mini?

@AKT my Roon feels buggy, perhaps it's cause of my old mac mini. Does your roon work when the internet is down and you are playing local files?

@essrand i did not get any discernible uptick in sound quality but let me explain the advantages of the move (just from a usability perspective).

I was using a Mac mini 2014 i5 with 4 gb ram. Roon and macOS running off an external ssd connected through usb.

It worked fine for me till I had a smallish library size ~ 10k tracks or so.

As my library size increased I noticed browsing get much slower and at times I would get drop outs in playback and lose control of devices.

I also use parametric eq for headphones and depending on the dac used up sample to dsd/ max pcm. I would face stuttering at times.

Moving to an i5 nuc, no complaints whatsoever - the experience is blazing fast and no issues running any sort of upsampling / eq profiles or using multiple endpoints at the same time.

Of course it’s important to have Roon on an ssd - that elevates the experience massively so I would recommend trying that before changing out your Mac mini

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

While listening is the primary objective, it needn’t be the only one. Human being is a social animal and that reflects in all his pursuits. Traditionally, musical concerts have also been events where people socialise around the music and the musicians. Look at the number of threads on this forum where FMs actively discuss various artists, albums and genres. Surely it helps having an app that allows/ promotes the same.

Further, discussing the music you are listening also helps understand and appreciate it more. As a regular listener of Radio Paradise internet radio stations, apart from their great sounding FLAC streams, another attraction for me is the ongoing discussion by listeners on each track in a bulletin board format that goes on over the years and gets pulled up when the song is playing. I haven’t come across that level of discussion on each song anywhere else. While that’s perhaps too much to expect from a mainstream application like Roon, not even being able to share playlists is a bummer.

I disagree. If one adds on other objectives to music then it defeats the purpose of music. If one chooses to be a social/casual etc type of listener that's upto them but it doesn't meet the objective. The post I quoted said "What is the point in listening to music if you cannot share that joy with those you know would appreciate?" and I pointed out that this notion is incorrect. My post still stands.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I disagree. If one adds on other objectives to music then it defeats the purpose of music. If one chooses to be a social/casual etc type of listener that's upto them but it doesn't meet the objective. The post I quoted said "What is the point in listening to music if you cannot share that joy with those you know would appreciate?" and I pointed out that this notion is incorrect. My post still stands.

Let’s just say different folks follow the same hobby differently. Roon is more suitable to those who confine music listening to themselves, inside their house.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Different people do follow hobbies (and everything else) differently and of course everyone is free to do as they please, however his statement was incorrect. While somethings are subjective, such as the type of music you listen to or the type of sound you prefer, the objective of listening to music is to enjoy it, I thought this was common sense.

As for Roon I have visited their website previously but I found their offerings unimpressive and ill suited for my needs.

 

[hydra]

Did anyone get a significant uptick from using Roon Rock on an NUC vs using a Mac mini?

@AKT my Roon feels buggy, perhaps it's cause of my old mac mini. Does your roon work when the internet is down and you are playing local files?

I started out with a ROCK build, so I don't have a yardstick.

From what I understand, there is absolutely no difference in sound quality between a dedicated Core like a ROCK, and a Core installed on a PC/Mac. The advantage is said to be in terms of improved stability and scaleability, esp. with larger libraries, additional zones, and DSP capabilities).

 

[AKT]

@AKT my Roon feels buggy, perhaps it's cause of my old mac mini. Does your roon work when the internet is down and you are playing local files?

I am using a late 2012 Mac Mini (i7, 16GB, 1TB mechanical HDD) as a Roon core with absolutely no issues. Both the Roon core and primary endpoint (allo DS) are connected via gigabit ethernet.
My local audio files are on a 4TB external drive (again mechanical) connected via USB 3.0 to thw core. It is mirrored twice a week to another local drive and once a week to a cloud drive. My Roon library is relatively small - 419 albums with roughly 6k tracks.
Initially I experimented with many DSP filters and Param EQ (except DSD up-conversion) but the processing speed never dropped below 1.2x. Right now I do not use any.
Sadly, Roon does not work when internet is down.

What's your config? Is your core hard wired? Have you tried an SSD (for the OS, not necessarily for audio files)...?

 

[AKT]

From what I understand, there is absolutely no difference in sound quality between a dedicated Core like a ROCK, and a Core installed on a PC/Mac. The advantage is said to be in terms of improved stability and scaleability, esp. with larger libraries, additional zones, and DSP capabilities).

absolutely agree. else I would have to put my engineering degree under a hot running Roon Nucleus so it slow roasts it!

 

[AKT]

@Decadent_Spectre
"My post stands", "his statement is incorrect"...
Not everything needs to be a contest. I am glad you enjoy your music the way you do.

 

[drkrack]

am using a late 2012 Mac Mini (i7, 16GB, 1TB mechanical HDD) as a Roon core with absolutely no issues. B

I can't Comment about incremental upgrade on Mac Mini but For Intel Nuc i5, 7th Gen and 240gb SSD, 8gb Ram ; Moving from Roon Core on Windows 10 to Reformat and installing ROCK did gave significant improvement in reducing jitter, noise floor reduction etc. It was immediately discernible, Probably the Windows background processes cluttered the audio playback performance. This was when Roon core is directly connected to the DACs, no much difference with Remote Endpoint performance though.

But My experience is, that Roon Performance its Best ; When Roon Core (however powerful it is technically) is kept separate from The Endpoint, that is Core is not directly involved in the playback (instead a Separate Endpoint like even one of VFM Allo devices is used for Playback) and Roon Core serves as a music server /dsp engine only. YMMV