Quitting the roon habit

[essrand]

I use a 2010 Mac Mini with 2.4Ghz Core Two Duo and 4GB RAM. No SSDs nada. Yes, core is hardwired. DSP (upconversion to DSD) did interfere with playback when I first tried it, but now it works, even though the CPU usage jumps to almost 100% sometimes. Guessing I am overdue for an upgrade
Question is what?

I don't see why two boxes doing the work of one should be better, especially when connected via ethernet and jumping through cables, router, switches etc, but guess that's how it is. I don't want two boxes, and there will be LPSUs and blab blah blah. I will stick with one box (server/streamer) connected via USB to my DAC.

 

[powerslave]

The point of listening to music is to enjoy it, not socialize about it.

It depends on the context; AKT's point was not about socializing on Facebook or on the lines of "hey look I listen to music" . He was talking about paid service locking his own collection in a manner that made it impossible for him to share music with friends. This is a very very valid concern if someone cares about "freedom" and "liberty" in the true sense.

Unfortunately, likes of Roon are taking the easy path that the likes of Apple and others have carved in today's digital world where first attracting consumers and then creating a walled garden around that service is a key mainstay of the business. So while I get what you are saying in "purist" terms about music being enjoyed alone , here the issue is much bigger i.e. people are slowly giving up their freedom in lieu of a good user experience, monopolies are created using this model a classic example is Apple play store ( if you read up on their feud with Epic games you would appreciate the issue).

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

@Decadent_Spectre
"My post stands", "his statement is incorrect"...
Not everything needs to be a contest. I am glad you enjoy your music the way you do.

Not sure how this is a "contest".

It depends on the context; AKT's point was not about socializing on Facebook or on the lines of "hey look I listen to music" . He was talking about paid service locking his own collection in a manner that made it impossible for him to share music with friends. This is a very very valid concern if someone cares about "freedom" and "liberty" in the true sense.

Unfortunately, likes of Roon are taking the easy path that the likes of Apple and others have carved in today's digital world where first attracting consumers and then creating a walled garden around that service is a key mainstay of the business. So while I get what you are saying in "purist" terms about music being enjoyed alone , here the issue is much bigger i.e. people are slowly giving up their freedom in lieu of a good user experience, monopolies are created using this model a classic example is Apple play store ( if you read up on their feud with Epic games you would appreciate the issue).

To me such issues are irrelevant as long as I (or whoever) enjoy the music so I don't see the point. He seemed to think the social aspect of music was very important, he is free to do that of course, I only pointed out the error.

People gave up their freedom when they signed upto facebook and the likes and switched to cloud services and free services/apps etc. If they want freedom they should have thought about that before broadcasting their lives online. Businesses are run to make a profit, you can't fault them for doing what they do, anyone here if they were at the helm of these businesses would not think twice about doing what they (the businesses) have done. If people want free services,social media,cloud services and the like as well as freedom and privacy then I am afraid they are being excessively self entitled, in my humble opinion of course. To be honest the amount of free services/apps etc already out there already showcase modern society's self entitled nature.

 

[square_wave]

@SachinChavan, Enjoying music -> Playback system + Music + The listener ( listeners ). Think about people doing Vinyl. What kind of social media thingy can they do ?

You can of course do lot more things with music these days...sharing playlists etc. Then you are essentially using music to add value to your social life but it is not part of the " core activity of enjoying music ". I used to make mix tapes for my friends when I was in college for my friends. It is pretty much the same. Lot more effort but was worth it.

I think that is the point DS is trying to make.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Then you are essentially using music to add value to your social life but it is not part of the " core activity of enjoying music ".

I suppose that is one way to put it. I always value the core, not the "frills" or "extras". I care not for album art,lyrics,anecdotes on the back of an album, concerts with "energy", the "scene", the appearance of an artist (or their popular image or their backstories or what they like for breakfast) or what have you. I couldn't care less if the artist is an actual Gibbon who wears a monocle and is into LSD.

When I listen to music, there is only the music. In that moment I live for music and music alone. I don't care who else listens to it, I don't care if they like it, I don't care if people I know have heard about it or like it. I only care for the moment. Maybe that sheds some more light into my views.

On the flip side, hello square_wave, long time no see.

 

[OM_2K19]

Did anyone get a significant uptick from using Roon Rock on an NUC vs using a Mac mini?

Instead of ROCK (based on older Debian), I put Roon on Ubuntu 20.4 LTS (which has the latest kernels and ALSA drivers) and it's holding up pretty strong against the Roon installed on my Macbook Pro. Roon on Windows 10 (NUC) offered the max audio fidelity in my tests probably because WASAPI provides direct access to hardware buffer, thus reducing processing overhead and latency.

 

[moktan]

I suppose that is one way to put it. I always value the core, not the "frills" or "extras". I care not for album art,lyrics,anecdotes on the back of an album, concerts with "energy", the "scene", the appearance of an artist (or their popular image or their backstories or what they like for breakfast) or what have you. I couldn't care less if the artist is an actual Gibbon who wears a monocle and is into LSD.

When I listen to music, there is only the music. In that moment I live for music and music alone. I don't care who else listens to it, I don't care if they like it, I don't care if people I know have heard about it or like it. I only care for the moment. Maybe that sheds some more light into my views.

On the flip side, hello square_wave, long time no see.

That’s very interesting. So how do you discover new music ?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Most of the time I am caught up enjoying the music I do like rather than looking for new music. Sometimes I hear new music in TV/Movies, I may google it (rarely) and listen to it on Youtube. To be really honest I rarely seek new music but on the occasions that I do I will look up some of my favorite bands and see if they have new albums out (I do not follow any band) so sometimes it's been years and I see they have 2-3 albums out. If I am particularly feeling like finding "new music", I will google the bands I like and find similar artists based on their wiki page which defines their genre, I will also often check last.fm for similar artists and also look at similar videos when hearing these new tracks on Youtube. Usually when I have a set of tracks/albums I like or I think may have potential, I will take some time out for the express purpose of listening to them to understand if they can be put into my regular playlist. This is time consuming (due to multiple listens of each track) and requires effort to understand if it will suit me for my regular playlist. Once done, the tracks I like are put into the regular playlist and everything else is ignored.

 

[AKT]

I use a 2010 Mac Mini with 2.4Ghz Core Two Duo and 4GB RAM. No SSDs nada. Yes, core is hardwired. DSP (upconversion to DSD) did interfere with playback when I first tried it, but now it works, even though the CPU usage jumps to almost 100% sometimes. Guessing I am overdue for an upgrade
Question is what?

I don't see why two boxes doing the work of one should be better, especially when connected via ethernet and jumping through cables, router, switches etc, but guess that's how it is. I don't want two boxes, and there will be LPSUs and blab blah blah. I will stick with one box (server/streamer) connected via USB to my DAC.

I guess you are indeed up for an upgrade This is where probably I feel that at $10 a month, Roon should also give me an instance of a Roon core on the cloud. Would bring down total cost of ownership and obviously make it portable. Anyway!

Whether you go with a single box solution or otherwise, you do need a clean power supply. I envisage three parts to a streamer - a) data processing section, b) streaming platform and c) analogue domain. Each of these three areas have different power requirements and noise resilience. If a single box can effectively isolate these three, that would be may way to go as well. However doing so gets expensive.
If you can split them, you would get a myriad of boxes but it would be cheaper. Use Roon core on 'any' computer, put an endpoint on a cheaper but squeaky clean specialized device and leave the analog section to your favorite DAC/Preamp.
Since we are entering the field of off the shelf software here; upgrades, patches and maintenance would be order of the day. Separating these boxes would ensure a bug in on of the pieces (remember recent Roon 1.8 core upgrade fiasco) would still keep rest of your chain functional and available.
Having said that, I would personally still prefer a single box solution which does everything right.

 

[captainsubtext]

I use a 2010 Mac Mini with 2.4Ghz Core Two Duo and 4GB RAM. No SSDs nada. Yes, core is hardwired. DSP (upconversion to DSD) did interfere with playback when I first tried it, but now it works, even though the CPU usage jumps to almost 100% sometimes. Guessing I am overdue for an upgrade
Question is what?

I don't see why two boxes doing the work of one should be better, especially when connected via ethernet and jumping through cables, router, switches etc, but guess that's how it is. I don't want two boxes, and there will be LPSUs and blab blah blah. I will stick with one box (server/streamer) connected via USB to my DAC.

Most definitely need an upgrade. Roon runs best off an ssd. Any nuc will do (even an i3 based one)

 

[dchaitanyarao]

volumio is now TIdalCOnnect ready. try it out ... I am using it with usbridge sig

 

[essrand]

Most definitely need an upgrade. Roon runs best off an ssd. Any nuc will do (even an i3 based one)

The 2nd hard drive, the one that will store the music, does it have to be SSD as well? Or any regular spinning HDD will do. 1TB SSDs are pricey!!

 

[captainsubtext]

The 2nd hard drive, the one that will store the music, does it have to be SSD as well? Or any regular spinning HDD will do. 1TB SSDs are pricey!!

nope - just the drive on which roon is installed and the roon metadata files are stored. Do not need your music on an SSD. Ideally you would want your operating system and roon + metadata on the SSD. Its possible to get a mac to boot off an external disk pretty easily.

In short, you can buy a 128 gb ssd, put it in an external enclosure, move the OS and all applications onto the SSD.

 

[chander]

I am asking a very very noob question, however - Can I use an old mac mini wipe off the OS and just use the hardware itself as a Roon Core? Is it possible? Has anyone done it?

 

[drkrack]

I am asking a very very noob question, however - Can I use an old mac mini wipe off the OS and just use the hardware itself as a Roon Core? Is it possible? Has anyone done it?

Yes very much possible ;
Many have done it on Roon forum. You can't dual boot that's all

 

[chander]

Yes very much possible ;
Many have done it on Roon forum. You can't dual boot that's all

Thanks so much - I do not want to Dual Boot, I want to completely wipe off the MAC OS, these are fairly old machines and I thought the ROON will be much lighter on the hardware.

Let me search the forums then.

 

[thedude]

I am asking a very very noob question, however - Can I use an old mac mini wipe off the OS and just use the hardware itself as a Roon Core? Is it possible? Has anyone done it?

This is quite interesting. Is it proven to sound better vs installing Roon within the MacOS?

Plz post your findings here

 

[chander]

This is quite interesting. Is it proven to sound better vs installing Roon within the MacOS?

Plz post your findings here

I have no idea - I haven't even found the forum where they discuss this yet , as soon as I find it I will definitely figure it out over the weekend!

 

[essrand]

The 2nd hard drive, the one that will store the music, does it have to be SSD as well? Or any regular spinning HDD will do. 1TB SSDs are pricey!!

I am about pull the trigger on this:
Intel NUC10i7FNH
8GB RAM
128 GB SSD
1TB SSD for internal storage

Any thoughts before I do so, anything I should add or leave out.
Any advantages of my HDD storage being an SSD? It's just 5k more.

 

[OM_2K19]

I am about pull the trigger on this:
Intel NUC10i7FNH
8GB RAM
128 GB SSD
1TB SSD for internal storage

Any thoughts before I do so, anything I should add or leave out.
Any advantages of my HDD storage being an SSD? It's just 5k more.

If you are comfortable with Linux, then go with Roon Core on Ubuntu instead of Rock. That way you will have absolute control over the system i.e. Disk Mgmt, OS Patch, Latest Kernels, etc. For Music Library, HDD is more than sufficient, for OS SSD is the way to go.